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PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time"

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#1: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: TheImperatorKnight,

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:55 am
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http://www.pcgamer.com//the-best-wargames-of-all-time/

I'm not surprised that CC2 made the list - but I love the "official site" link they give Laughing

#2: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:45 pm
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That was nice of them for the link, its too bad the site is not very CC2 centric for those visitors who followed the link. CC2 usually makes it on thier top wargames list, I have seen it on some previous ones. Its a nice list, I havent played any of those games but some look very appealing.

#3: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:04 pm
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Surprised they had Open General listed, it's pretty cool and W7 friendly.

Many of you gents probably know of it, though if any are interested in giving it a try? Here's the link at JP's:

Open General

#4: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: Rodmorg, Location: Bournemouth

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:09 pm
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Very good to see CC2 there. Happy HOI3 wasn't there, a very rushed and unfinished game in my opinion. Strange how Men of war wasn't there :/

#5: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:56 pm
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I had falcon4 early on... God I could see the huge potential but it was flawed and my computer didn't have the grunt

#6: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:42 pm
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I played Falcon 3.0 (I think it was 3.0) back in the day on a 286 and a 486 computer. Awesome flight sim.

#7: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:14 am
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Wow!

That was one of the most brain dead top game list I have seen in a long time.

Birth of America 2. I was actually a play tester on that one. It was a miracle it was even released.

Over Flanders Fields. A combat flight simulator, turned into a combat ground simulator because CFS3 was coded to do that. What a waste!

CC2? [cough, cough]

Unity of Command? Just seeing the graphics in this title, makes you want to laugh, then barf.

DCS World, makes me think inclusion on this list was for sale.

#8: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: sod98,

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:43 am
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No Total Wars - Rome, Medieval 2 or Empire.

#9: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: TheImperatorKnight,

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:05 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

CC2? [cough, cough]

Still the best CC game in my opinion... at least we can all agree it's better than CCMT Wink

Stwa wrote (View Post):

Unity of Command? Just seeing the graphics in this title, makes you want to laugh, then barf.

Since when do graphics make a good or bad game? Have you seen the graphics in Close Combat!?

For anyone considering it, Unity of Command is pretty good, highly recommended. One of my favourite turn-based tactics games.

sod98 wrote (View Post):

No Total Wars - Rome, Medieval 2 or Empire.

Yeah, I'd agree that TW should have been on the list. And HOI didn't make the list either.

#10: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:45 pm
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TheImperatorKnight wrote (View Post):

[CC2] Still the best CC game in my opinion... at least we can all agree it's better than CCMT Wink

Ya, CC2 was so good Matrix wouldn't even re-release it, they decided to start over using the remnants of TLD.

TheImperatorKnight wrote:

Since when do graphics make a good or bad game? Have you seen the graphics in Close Combat!?

Graphics are important to many people. That is one if the reason I use CCMT instead of CC2. I generally like maps that are painted with colors that are found in nature.

TheImperatorKnight wrote:

For anyone considering it, Unity of Command is pretty good, highly recommended. One of my favourite turn-based tactics games.

Turn based games usually suck, especially IGO/UGO. We stopped playing that stuff back in the 90's. Even WEGO can suck. Like Birth of America 2.

#11: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:43 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

Graphics are important to many people. That is one if the reason I use CCMT instead of CC2. I generally like maps that are painted with colors that are found in nature.

Ouch!

#12: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: TheImperatorKnight,

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:59 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

Ya, CC2 was so good Matrix wouldn't even re-release it, they decided to start over using the remnants of TLD.

They did "re-release" it - they called it Last Stand Arnhem, but they didn't re-release the original game like-for-like because they knew it would put their newer games to shame.

Stwa wrote (View Post):

Graphics are important to many people. That is one if the reason I use CCMT instead of CC2. I generally like maps that are painted with colors that are found in nature.

What colour is that ~~dress~~ grass?

Take a look at the picture below. Unless I'm mistaken, I think you'll find the grass in the middle is more similar to CC2 than it is to the grey-green of LSA.

#13: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:18 pm
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Quote:

Take a look at the picture below. Unless I'm mistaken, I think you'll find the grass in the middle is more similar to CC2 than it is to the grey-green of LSA.

Just me personally? was always glad the color of the grass was darkened some in CC3 for most maps. Yeah.. Some of the user made ones have the CC2 style bright green turf.. And all versions of CC4 and later TIK. Easier on the eyes. Now that's just me and as remember, some of the old bunch might chime in here? There was a general consensus at the MSN site and CSO later on that the change was much better overall, especially when H2H was 30m for most guys, or was then, no idea now since have not played any H2H since left CC 1st time back in '04.

Werf

#14: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:08 pm
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TheImperatorKnight wrote (View Post):

They did "re-release" it - they called it Last Stand Arnhem, but they didn't re-release the original game like-for-like because they knew it would put their newer games to shame.

So, are you bragging or complaining ... or just whining.

LSA did not re-use (re-release) any original maps from CC2. LSA did not re-use (re-release) the CC2 user interface. LSA did not re-use (re-release) any CC2 data files. The CC2 user interface is just as ridiculous as its map colors.

TheImperatorKnight wrote:

Take a look at the picture below. Unless I'm mistaken, I think you'll find the grass in the middle is more similar to CC2 than it is to the grey-green of LSA.

So, thanks for supplying that image that proves my point. CC2 maps use colors you would expect to see in a cartoon. And apart from the ridiculous colors used in CC2, the diminutive map scale, and other map elements are equally appalling.

Nomanda Firefox is determined to supply these maps with a modded version of CC2 on every CC platform that has been released by Matrix over the last decade. That in itself is proof that CC2 maps suck big time.

LSA maps might actually match a color found in nature, where CC2 maps do not.

#15: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:52 am
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CC2 game play was good! But I have to agree that I prefer the color of later maps and find it closer to what you see in satellite images. In addition it wasn't until CC3 I believe that you could change an infantry squad facing without having to move them....

#16: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:15 am
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A few too many flight sims in that list for me. Not a single FPS either? Medal of Honor and Call of Duty are war games too.

#17: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: TheImperatorKnight,

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:50 pm
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Meh, I prefer the more colourful "cartoonish" look of the old games. It's probably a personal thing, or maybe I just associate the brighter colours with the better gameplay and AI you get in CC2/3.

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

I guess it's easier on the eyes? I'm tempted to do a map mod for CC2 and adjust the colours to make them look less cartoony and see what people think.

Tejszd wrote (View Post):

CC2 game play was good! But I have to agree that I prefer the color of later maps and find it closer to what you see in satellite images. In addition it wasn't until CC3 I believe that you could change an infantry squad facing without having to move them....

Yes, the one major drawback of CC2. The defense/ambush arc wasn't invented yet Sad

Stwa wrote (View Post):

LSA did not re-use (re-release) any original maps from CC2. LSA did not re-use (re-release) the CC2 user interface. LSA did not re-use (re-release) any CC2 data files. The CC2 user interface is just as ridiculous as its map colors.

That's my point. They "re-released" it, but didn't actually re-release it. What they did is provide a game that really was just not as fun to play as the original.

It's a shame they didn't actually re-release CC2, or at least host it on their site. It's not available to download (legally) anywhere, and it's a shame because people ask me where to get it, and I have to point them to eBay.

And no Stwa, I'm neither bragging, whining or complaining. I'm giving my opinion, that's all

#18: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: Stwa,

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:51 pm
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TheImperatorKnight wrote:

It's a shame they didn't actually re-release CC2, or at least host it on their site.

The closest thing to a CC2 re-release, is CC2 Redux. And it has been available for download from the Matrix CC site (established by Schrecken) for a long time. However, you do not get all of the maps with CC2 Redux, and the rest of it is basically WW2 adapted to CCMT.

I used to think CC2 Redux, was just a prototype for a potential re-release of CC2, that was rejected by Matrix, in favor of LSA. But I am just guessing.

TheImperatorKnight wrote:

And no Stwa, I'm neither bragging, whining or complaining. I'm giving my opinion, that's all.

But it is possible for all forumites to engage in these behaviors while they express an opinion. This site might be the epitome of this activity. Maybe you are simply recalling the functionality of smaller maps, and the simplicity of the CC2 "campaign".

But, I have never seen anyone (even Firefox), try to use modified LSA maps with the original CC2 game.

#19: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: TheImperatorKnight,

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:06 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

Maybe you are simply recalling the functionality of smaller maps, and the simplicity of the CC2 "campaign".

That's probably it. Small maps are definitely more functional. I'm not fond of playing GWTC without my Small Map Mod installed :/

Stwa wrote (View Post):

But, I have never seen anyone (even Firefox), try to use modified LSA maps with the original CC2 game.

Not a bad idea. You'd have to crop the maps down to make them fit but it's possible. Would anyone be interested in doing this?

#20: Re: PCGamer - "The Best Wargames of all time" Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:08 pm
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TheImperatorKnight wrote (View Post):

You'd have to crop the maps down to make them fit but it's possible. Would anyone be interested in doing this?

I wouldn't mind, but I do not have access to CC2 or the LSA maps.

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