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#61: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 1:43 pm
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Quote:

Btw Hospital reports, police reports, military reports post WW2 and so on. It's too convenient sometimes just to go with these cases of mass hysteria for the allies. Remember at the time the Allies were saying these things with no evidence. Churchill was busy preparing Operation Unthinkable - the Invasion of the Soviet Union. So these stories would help provide reason for the unprovoked attack if it happened. These stories were borrowed from the Nazi's by the Allies just like " the Iron Curtain ". It was wrongly credited to Churchill, actually Goebbels coined the phrase. Saying that the Soviet Union wanted to overrun Europe when it was Germany who attacked USSR but the Allies also used the same propaganda. Beevor is just another product of Institutional Historians. They print the Official party line without questioning or investigating. Using hearsay instead of facts - a usual Western flaw ( Patsies ).

now you are officially commy haha
btw interesting that USA alone had more than ~20.000 tanks on May 1945 (+ Commonwealth, France and German units) vs ~30.000 tanks in RA so Unthinkable was not that unthinkable Wink

#62: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: sod98,

Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:38 pm
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now you are officially commy haha
btw interesting that USA alone had more than ~20.000 tanks on May 1945 (+ Commonwealth, France and German units) vs ~30.000 tanks in RA so Unthinkable was not that unthinkable Wink

[/quote]

I just like a bit of balance instead of the blind rants created through Govt releases without any evidence.

Churchill would have attacked USSR if the figures had stacked up in the Western Allies favour. At best a long protracted conflict,but most likely a lost war for the West was the outcome.

#63: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: Pzt_Decoy,

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:07 pm
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Ok now I see it,

The Soviets where very disciplined troops behaving correctly in every way, The Germans should be glad to have these angels of justice liberating them, those women where just begging to be raped and killed for a 'piece of chocolate' , all the crimes they commited are just propaganda based on nothing but lies. Nonsense.

But everyone else, the Germans and the Western Allies where nothing but scum that behaved like animals, all true and totally not based on after war propaganda at all..interesting.

Personally I think every nation involved in WW2 has blood in it's hands, some more than others, to think otherwise from a conflict in that scale is foolishness.

Just my 2 cents anyway.

#64: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:59 pm
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Pzt_Decoy wrote (View Post):

Ok now I see it,
The Soviets where very disciplined troops behaving correctly in every way, The Germans should be glad to have these angels of justice liberating them, those women where just begging to be raped and killed for a 'piece of chocolate' , all the crimes they commited are just propaganda based on nothing but lies. Nonsense.

another good example of I CAN WRITE BUT DON"T WANT TO READ person.
if you could read my posts above you could see that the RA Command issued orders forbiding raping and pillaging of the German population and quite a few WERE shot or sent to Penal units because of that. And that's how it stopped very fast back in 1944.

But you can believe in your religion Smile

#65: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: Schmal_Turm,

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:48 pm
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I would probably agree to some degree with you on that Dima. I read one account where an officer was saying that Socialism was getting a bad name, reportedly by word of Stalin, because of the claimed rapes and supposedly they starting cracking down on it by executing the offenders. To me that would seem to represent an element of the truth.

But I also agree that all the countries involved had some share in atrocities committed in the war. I think of the fire-bombing of Dresden as a particularly heinous crime as there was no real military value by that action.

#66: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:21 am
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Schmal_Turm wrote (View Post):

I would probably agree to some degree with you on that Dima. I read one account where an officer was saying that Socialism was getting a bad name, reportedly by word of Stalin, because of the claimed rapes and supposedly they starting cracking down on it by executing the offenders. To me that would seem to represent an element of the truth.

so I read recenly an account where the US citizen decided to join IG. So do you think you can extrapolate that to the all US citizens?
same thing is here, there were RA soldiers who did that but they were punished and the it was not tolerated by the HQ.
while raping/pillaging/killing was allowed by the German HQ on 21.06.1941 as no German soldier could be courted for that on the USSR territories by the German laws.
And that's why they were so afraid of what they did that they believed in anything coming from Gebbels.

#67: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: sod98,

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:53 am
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[quote="Pzt_Decoy";p="80743"]Ok now I see it,

The Soviets where very disciplined troops behaving correctly in every way, The Germans should be glad to have these angels of justice liberating them, those women where just begging to be raped and killed for a 'piece of chocolate' , all the crimes they commited are just propaganda based on nothing but lies. Nonsense.

But everyone else, the Germans and the Western Allies where nothing but scum that behaved like animals, all true and totally not based on after war propaganda at all..interesting.

Personally I think every nation involved in WW2 has blood in it's hands, some more than others, to think otherwise from a conflict in that scale is foolishness.

What are you smoking. I have never read any article by another person on this site that described anything like the rant you have written. Whatever it is you are on either stop using it or double the dose. I hope you are embarrassed kid as you should be.

Congrats for the most foolish contribution to date.

#68: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:06 pm
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Link

#69: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: dj,

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:46 am
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I personally do not believe the Russian-sourced accounts of what happened in Berlin. So they found some Westerners to attempt to corroborate their narratives of what happened at the end. Because of fear of reprisals from Stalin against his own leadership I am sure the West was fed cover stories and lies...and they fell for it.

#70: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: dj,

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:41 pm
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Correction: meant to say I definitely believe this Russian ordinary soldier and others like him whom had the guts to call out war crimes. Just don't believe the Russian state historical accounts, most of it at least.
Both during WW2-era and the "new" Russia which is really like the old Russia. I especially don't believe the Russian state media accounts of what happened in Berlin.

#71: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: JFFulcrum,

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:47 pm
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The man on video is Leonid Rabichev. First times he wrote about mass rapes in 2005, in 2008 his book 'The War Will Write It Off: Memoirs of a Signal Officer of the 31st Army. 1941-1945' was released. He do not say or write any exact dates of such events, but from the text of book it can happen only during Goldap/Gumbinnen Operation, October 1944, in which 31st Army participated. The operation was a failure, soviet offensive was quickly repelled, many cities switched sides for several times in a day. So, was there a place for 150 kilometers un-opposed marches, two days long orgies and so on, everybody can guess for itself. Read also about so-called 'Nemmersdorf massacre' at same period.

#72: Re: Beevor, Berlin & BBC Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:16 pm
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JFFulcrum, thank you for identifying him. Looking up his books now, it would seem most are not available in English though.

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

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