CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell Stwa)
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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Modern Tactics
#1: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell Stwa) Author: TheImperatorKnight,  PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 8:38 pm
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Hey everyone! I finally got Modern Tactics and... well it actually surprised me! It's better than I thought it was going to be!

Click on THIS LINK RIGHT HERE to see my video. But here's a brief/incomplete summary -

The combat on the tactical map is some of the best in the series, and there's several features that are superior to any other game in the series. Yet it's let down by not having a strategic system. If you’re new to the close combat series, don’t buy this game. If you’re a veteran who’s already bought a few of the games, consider getting this game... and if you do get it, tell me so we can play some 10 player multiplayer!

Also, don't tell Stwa. We don't want him to think he was right all this time Wink
#2: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: US_Brake, Location: USA PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:54 pm
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Great Videos and Site TheImperatorKnight!

count me in on any 10 player test... I own it.
#3: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: TheImperatorKnight,  PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm
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Cheers Brake!

I'll be honest, CCFanatics needs some work and attention from me... been way too busy making videos but I will return to work on it at some point Smile
#4: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: DAK_Legion,  PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:20 pm
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Easy for make new mods TIK!!
#5: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: TheImperatorKnight,  PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:27 pm
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DAK_Legion wrote (View Post):
Easy for make new mods TIK!!


"CCMT Small Map mod" Laughing

It's not got a strategic system so it's bound to be easier
#6: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: DAK_Legion,  PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 8:27 pm
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http://www.closecombatseries.net/Hosted/dak_legion/CCMT/
#7: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: DAK_Legion,  PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 8:29 pm
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My favourite..Tula mods;)
#8: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 10:21 pm
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Very good, TIK.

I agree with some points and share your frustrations expressed on the video.

All that is left in me is numbness about the management and direction this series took, this happened after they announced GtC as I was kind of butthurt about that. Hopefully TBF is the equivalent of a fresh SO Install and not a restart to the same buggy pattern, and at least they could hire a nice team like in Atomic days.

I personally don't enjoy this modern setting, most modern I go is Vietnam as I think CC is not made to handle recent modern conflicts. There are other engines for that.

I still love the games though. 2,3 and 5 still are my favorites. All for different reasons. Sorry 4 I tried to like you but you're so ugly with all that snow and locked FP's, I need to be really on the mood.

Cheers.
#9: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:39 am
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The best feature of any CC game (including CCMT) is to NOT have a campaign mode. Many issues are solved.

CCMT is expandable in all respects. The only constraint to adding more maps to CCMT seems to be the size of your disk partition. Over time, many of the "mods" I put together, really was just about modifying or adding maps. Mafi's 5CC is recommended. CCMT has the best combat model for modern conflicts and weaponry, like WW2, or NAM, or Iraq, or really anything post WW1. CCMT has replay, and no other game has this.

Last edited by Stwa on Tue May 05, 2015 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total
#10: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 12:13 pm
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By the time of CC5, CC had become a total arcade game. There are a lot of videos around that demonstrate this fact, with soliders running willy nilly through walls, structures, in big gaggles, but they are somehow able to fire all their weapons from these gaggles. This is what made CC5 games fun for most of the participants.

The same thing happend in Rome Total War, and everyone liked that game. The troops moved at light speed, and they could dash through or around obstactles before players could even react with keyboard or mouse commands. A complete arcade fest, like CC5.

Last edited by Stwa on Tue May 05, 2015 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total
#11: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 2:07 am
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In conclusion;

There was a time, at this site, when the Matrix bashers were in abundance. But when you consider the complexity of a game like CC, you really cant evaluate what you have, until you have logged a serious amount of game time.

If Matrix releases TBF, then it took them a decade to realize it is the campaign mode in each title that is causing the problems that persist.

So, perhaps for noobs, you can rank the CC releases from Matrix easily. The ranking becomes the order in which these games appeared or were released as follows:

1. COI, 2. CCMT, 3. WAR. 4. TLD, 5. LSA
#12: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: TheImperatorKnight,  PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:37 am
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Stwa, I agree on all points you said, even the order of the games. The only thing I don't agree with is not having a campaign is good for CC. Most of the people who commented on my video said they would get CCMT, if only it had a campaign  Sad

It seems that this game, and the others by Matrix, have all been designed with multiplayer in mind. And that's fine. But once again, it boils down to the fact that most players play single player, and they want some sort of campaign system.
#13: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: US_Brake, Location: USA PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:06 pm
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Top 2 close combat games.

1. COI

2. CCMT
#14: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: DAK_Legion,  PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 8:50 pm
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If two scenarios can be create an operation would be great for CCMT

Play two scenarios and after the game present a final result about the operation.

Style COI with notepad for Grand Campaigns
#15: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 12:39 am
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TheImperatorKnight wrote (View Post):
It seems that this game, and the others by Matrix, have all been designed with multiplayer in mind. And that's fine. But once again, it boils down to the fact that most players play single player, and they want some sort of campaign system.


The rankings I gave above are based on game play, not popularity. People may want a campaign game, but Atomic, Destineer, and Matrix spent way over a decade proving to all of us, that they cant make a campaign game that functions to the expectations of these players. A fact that is discovered by the players themselves after they purchase any CC title with a campaign mode.

The reason Matrix keeps harping the multiplayer thing, is because that means less programming for them. Perhaps TBF will shed more light on this subject, since there will be NO multiplayer, and NO campaign mode. Which directly contradicts all the BS that has been spewed over time by advocates of these methods. In addition, there may not be a way to add new objects to TBF, so does that also mean NO modding.

So, maybe the bigger, better thinkers have arrived at a plan B for CC going forward. Perhaps a formula that will finally fix CC for all time. NO multiplayer, NO campaign mode, and NO modding. WTF!
#16: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: papa_whisky,  PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:59 pm
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This was the one game that I was to a limited extent invloved in its development as a beta tester and a few other tasks. It was a whole head above CCM3 that had more flaws that things that worked but the release of CCMT still had way too many problems on its release that coincided with a melt down with the owners of the code at that time and a total public bitch up that just turned too many people away.

I tried modding the hell out of it but I still couldn't get it work how I thought it should most especially the crawl of death totally crap pathing and a number of other quirks that ruined it for me. If pathing issues and crawl of death was sorted that would be a big step up and if enough players had it to make multiplayer games possbile it would be a blast. That will almost certainly never happen now. The step down from CCM3 was that the AI never mounted vehicles in CCMT that was also never achieved in GTC. It is pretty scary when you get a load of troop transports converging on your location packed full of men.

TIK I totally agree with your analysis about features they should have kept in the other games.
#17: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 5:07 pm
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Quote:
Stwa, I agree on all points you said, even the order of the games. The only thing I don't agree with is not having a campaign is good for CC. Most of the people who commented on my video said they would get CCMT, if only it had a campaign


Agree TIK. Game is decent, bought it fairly recently also and it is missing the campaign mode to work well. Some other features, such as ops/scenario builder to me are pretty friendly, though I would have preferred for the time frame to have been Korean war, which has been ignored by Matrix.


Quote:
The best feature of any CC game (including CCMT) is to NOT have a campaign mode. Many issues are solved.


This has been hit on before STWA.. Lack of campaign tools for post CC5 that are easy and quick to use, like BGEdit and QClone, where campaign modifications can be made both quick and on the fly to virtually remake a brand new campaign in minutes, an entirely new experience rather than those dragging MS Word spreadsheets and EXCel. No matter how many times (virtually) play a CC3-5 campaign, can remake them fairly quickly into new with those tools and in longer CAMPAIGNS, not short scenarios/operations.

That post CC5 BGEdit tool equivalent is the one thing missing from the community.

Werf
#18: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 6:06 pm
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papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
the release of CCMT still had way too many problems on its release ...


I haven't played the original release since January 2008. Subsequnt iterations were much better.

papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
I still couldn't get it work how I thought it should most especially the crawl of death totally crap pathing and a number of other quirks that ruined it for me. If pathing issues and crawl of death was sorted that would be a big step up and if enough players had it to make multiplayer games possbile it would be a blast.


I only allow 2 vehicles of any kind per side, and I NEVER found human or AI player pathing an issue.

Crawl of death I covered in an article I posted here at CCS called "The AI Belly Down Assault". Players that complain about crawling in CCMT have clearly not logged a lot of time with the game. The AI runs upright a lot to (check the replays), but usually when the team has not been fired upon or sighted.

As a general rule of thumb, troops hit the dirt, when the SHTF in CCMT. Many gamers are so used to the Arcade fest from CC5 days, they insist that teams be allowed to run upright most of the game without encountering fatigue, or getting shot.

In addition, the AI is brave. So when ordered to capture an objective, the AI will commit teams with diligence and CARRY OUT the attacks, usually prone, because to assault these positions standing up or running would be suicide in real life and CCMT. CCMT is not CC5, so the troops cannot run at 30 mph plus. Which is why teams run everywhere in CC5. They run, blow through a few structures, then run some more.

Last edited by Stwa on Thu May 07, 2015 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
#19: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 6:22 pm
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):
Lack of campaign tools for post CC5 that are easy and quick to use, like BGEdit and QClone, where campaign modifications can be made both quick and on the fly to virtually remake a brand new campaign in minutes, an entirely new experience rather than those dragging MS Word spreadsheets and EXCel. No matter how many times (virtually) play a CC3-5 campaign, can remake them fairly quickly into new with those tools and in longer CAMPAIGNS, not short scenarios/operations.


I noticed you used the phrase "virtually remake", which indicates to moi, that you JOHNSILVER, are having trouble buying your own BS. I assure you no one in the past, present, or future, will be remaking brand new campaigns (virtual or otherwise) in MINUTES. You are simply on drugs. Laughing

There have been modders, many gaming enterprises, tools and accessories, but despite all this effort for over 15 years, the campaign mode just never materialized in a meaningful way.

Last edited by Stwa on Thu May 07, 2015 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
#20: Re: CC Modern Tactics First Impressions Video (don't tell St Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 6:41 pm
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papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
The step down from CCM3 was that the AI never mounted vehicles in CCMT that was also never achieved in GTC. It is pretty scary when you get a load of troop transports converging on your location packed full of men.


With CCMT I played a gazillion WW2  scenarios, all on maps of 20x20 deployment tiles or less. So, I disabled mount/dismount for the few vehicles that had the capability.

Why? Because, even in WW2 armies would not let soft skinned personel carriers or trucks get that close to enemy troops, for fear they would be instantly wasted. The never ending zeal to make CC an arcade game, has players wanting motoized troop transports converging on enemy positions, probably at 60 mph plus, no matter the terrain.

Look, I like arcade games. I played Delta Force Xtreme on-line for years, sometimes at over 30 hours a stretch. But, I like CCMT because it is NOT an arcade game.
Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Modern Tactics


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