US Elections 2016
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Close Combat Series -> The Mess

#1: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:44 am
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I am having a good time watching the news cover the elections. Sarah Palin endorsing Trump last night really made my day. I have seen so many people commenting that this is the beginning of Idiocracy, especially if Trump takes it.

Its a good distraction while I want for the Walking Dead to restart in February.

#2: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:08 am
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[quote="mooxe";p="82889"]I am having a good time watching the news cover the elections. Sarah Palin endorsing Trump last night really made my day. I have seen so many people commenting that this is the beginning of Idiocracy, especially if Trump takes it.

US politics is just more Hollywood.  The two main parties sparring - Repubs and Democ. Once whatever Govt is elected the foreign policy won't change just like over the last 40 plus years. The only real race will be between Clinton and Sanders. However - Clintons electon budget - $24m to Sanders $500k. The price of truth or hiding it.

ps Walking Dead, Blacksails, Vikings and Frontier

#3: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Drizzt PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:56 am
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It's really weird what's going on in Usa.
The slow decadence of neo liberism global system ("paper economy" X times bigger than real economy and out of control that produces systemic-cyclic crisis over and over again; foolish differences between the few riches and masses of poors; desertification of the middle class, sometimes masquered with a "false middle class" substained by debit cards; global pollution and climate changes that, inside this development model, they risk to bring our race near to extinction by the end of this century; dismantling of welfare state to please the èlites and their private puppets; democracies gradually transformed in autocracies to serve better the èlites economic-oligarchic etc. etc.) it produces this weird phenomenon also in the USA: Sanders it's a classic left politic (european style) and it's funny (but not surprising) that republicans call him a communist and it's strange that in Usa he is a serious contender for Clinton; Trump it's something like Berlusconi: an elitist populist (vulgar, but strangely tolerated for this character aspect usually punished by anglo-saxon way of think).
The base of the problem it's the theory of the (economic) infinite grow inside a finite world: it's an oxymoron (future generations will pay for these), but the èlites don't want to think to a more suitable development model (the resources drainage from the low to the high will continue at global level), so, in my opinion, it's irrelevant who will win.

Drizzt


Last edited by Drizzt on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:22 pm; edited 3 times in total

#4: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:58 am
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" Trump it's something like Berlusconi: an elitist populist (vulgar, but strangely tolerated for this character aspect) ".

So very true

#5: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: vobbnobb PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:50 pm
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America is ran by big business.

#6: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: US_BrakeLocation: USA PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:14 am
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Any idiot can run for President in the US it's a free country.

#7: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:19 am
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Yes there is woeful ignorance with the type of mis-information and stereotypes that are being propagated by Partisan media outlets.  I get the hating on Trump for his comments but things get taken WAY out of context.  Not everything Trump says is bad or crazy.  It was a strange site to Sarah Palin endorsing Trump, i'm sure he paid her a hefty sum.  If he did, that is not illegal or even unethical.  This endorsement enraged some of the conservative talking heads like Beck.  The part that Trump has done a service to the people, is by exposing "crony capitalism" and how much of a scam our system is.  Meaning our politicians take big money from Special Interests or self-serving Industrial/Corporate interests - much of which severely hurts our National interests or makes us go further into debt.

It would be interesting to see Bernie Sanders vs Trump.  Both are way outside the existing establishment and so many similarities how their own parties despise them.  Trump constantly gets thrown under the bus by the establishment in his own party.  Bernie Sanders also is constantly attacked or ridiculed by his own party due the immense political leverage Clinton has.   And yes it is true this so called form of "Socialism" is no where even remotely close to what Europe what call Socialism.  We still do not even have nationalized health care it is still a Private corporate system.  

The real problems plaguing America's political system are complete lack of unity, fanatical partisanship based on propaganda not facts, and absolute domination of our Congress by Industrial/Corporate lobbyists.  These lobbyists literally even have their own lawyers writing legislation.  Trump is a master salesman and one of the very few to explain how dysfunctional and corrupt our system is in plain English.  This comes as a shock to the political establishment whom likes to keep the public confused and ignorant.  Now the Republicans are heading down a dangerous path that could cause the party to implode into chaos.

#8: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Drizzt PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:58 am
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dj wrote (View Post):
The real problems plaguing America's political system are complete lack of unity, fanatical partisanship based on propaganda not facts, and absolute domination of our Congress by Industrial/Corporate lobbyists.  These lobbyists literally even have their own lawyers writing legislation.  Trump is a master salesman and one of the very few to explain how dysfunctional and corrupt our system is in plain English.  This comes as a shock to the political establishment whom likes to keep the public confused and ignorant.  Now the Republicans are heading down a dangerous path that could cause the party to implode into chaos.

Also Berlusconi was a shock (the same kind of shock you are talking about). And he said absolutely the truth about old italian politicians and their corruption. But then? He has become worse than them. Like Trump, he was and he is part of the system as businnessman so nothing of strange about his bad results as politician and, more important, he was and he is a man of the èlites that also as politician has done his own personal interests and the interests of the èlites (telling the opposite in a populistic way to take votes).

The "problem" of the Usa it's the same of the rest of the world. The system, this economic global system, it's condemned. Mathematic condemned it about the real economy. And anyway the amount of the paper economy (it's like the drugs to go ahead again some metres) condemned it in another way. Moreover, many people are not able to split politic theory to the economic theory. Unfortunately, Marx had reason (as economist, and this is mainly what he was). And you can trust me if I say you that I'm not a communist (for many reasons, also personal).
There is an alternative economic model (and I don't speak about a "communist" model)? Sure, more than one. But the èlites will never change this system (to build a different global economic system requires a high level of agreement between nations): we are all expendable to altar/dogma of the infinite grow.
It's easy to imagine that wars for the last resources remained and wars for the water with famines as costant shadow will be the last stage of the current global economic development model. About revolts, for now they are only in an electoral way in many western countries (Trump\M5S\Podemos\Le Pen etc. etc. votes included); but one day, when the differences between the reality and lies will be unbearable, there will be the same scenes already seen in eastern Europe.

Drizzt

#9: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:38 am
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It is true that we are all suffering from our global system to find cheap Slave labor in sweatshops based in mostly Commie-subsidized China.  If Communism is truly so evil as we were indoctrinated to believe for many decades, then why has USA and many other Western nations sent the majority of our manufacturing plants to China?  It proves that all of these comments were based purely on propaganda.  The elitists have exploited Slave Labor to the point many these workers are permanently injured for the rest of their lives.  They obviously do not give a rat's ass about our National economies and especially they do not care about destroying lives of families because they have no more jobs.  Apple reportedly is one the few businesses (or maybe even the only one) to even acknowledge investigative journalists alarming reports of sweatshop workers in China becoming disfigured from being overworked.

So when Trump speaks to these points he strikes a deep nerve in the psyche of American public.  But I agree with your points...I really don't trust either.  What I like about Trump is that he is agitating many of the elitists whom I despise.  I want revenge against the shi*heads that have sold my country out.  Many of these losers answer to their masters overseas anyways.

#10: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:41 am
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dj wrote (View Post):
It is true that we are all suffering from our global system to find cheap Slave labor in sweatshops based in mostly Commie-subsidized China.  If Communism is truly so evil as we were indoctrinated to believe for many decades, then why has USA and many other Western nations sent the majority of our manufacturing plants to China?  It proves that all of these comments were based purely on propaganda.  The elitists have exploited Slave Labor to the point many these workers are permanently injured for the rest of their lives.  They obviously do not give a rat's ass about our National economies and especially they do not care about destroying lives of families because they have no more jobs.  Apple reportedly is one the few businesses (or maybe even the only one) to even acknowledge investigative journalists alarming reports of sweatshop workers in China becoming disfigured from being overworked.

So when Trump speaks to these points he strikes a deep nerve in the psyche of American public.  But I agree with your points...I really don't trust either.  What I like about Trump is that he is agitating many of the elitists whom I despise.  I want revenge against the shi*heads that have sold my country out.  Many of these losers answer to their masters overseas anyways.


Most militaristic countries need an enemy and more so in times of peace. Otherwise why pay out all those tax payers dollars for things like the Brit Trident program or the US F35. It also helps to keep the populous in line believing - War on Terror, Cold War, sanctions etc - all propaganda. War on Terror - terror is an action not a belief. Some would say history proves the biggest Terrorist states come from the West since WW2.

#11: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: tripwireLocation: Florida - USA PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:50 am
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Mooxe, you're in Canada, correct?  Would you have a spare room to rent?  If Trump makes it to President I'm leaving this place!

#12: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:28 am
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tripwire wrote (View Post):
Mooxe, you're in Canada, correct?  Would you have a spare room to rent?  If Trump makes it to President I'm leaving this place!


Come on it won't be that bad..............you once had a B grade actor as your President - Reagan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THrZZ95i8zQ

#13: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: ke_mechial PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:59 pm
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I watched the Season 2 of  "Fargo". Interestingly, the '80 elections is involved in one episode, as reagan is visiting the town.

#14: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:35 pm
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ke_mechial wrote (View Post):
I watched the Season 2 of  "Fargo". Interestingly, the '80 elections is involved in one episode, as reagan is visiting the town.


I use to get a good laugh out of his quotes he used in speeches that were originally from his movies. It was like he was still in the 60's......at least his memory was.

#15: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: MajorFrank PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:18 am
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Strange to watch the US election with the comments made mostly by Trump. Ok to use torture (all torture not just water torture), they will go after family members of suspected terrorists, build a huge wall on the US Mexico border and now some vulgarity stuff. Are they electing a president who is supposed to be diplomatic or some kind of medieval war lord?

#16: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:23 am
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I am just amazed he has the support he does.

The amount of criticism Obama gets, and the praise Trump gets is just so hypocritical it defies logic.

#17: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:35 pm
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What is happening to Democracy.......a new form of gerrymandering.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/19/new-york-independent-voter-registration-frustration-sanders-democratic-primary

#18: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:51 pm
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dj wrote (View Post):
It is true that we are all suffering from our global system to find cheap Slave labor in sweatshops based in mostly Commie-subsidized China.  If Communism is truly so evil as we were indoctrinated to believe for many decades, then why has USA and many other Western nations sent the majority of our manufacturing plants to China?  It proves that all of these comments were based purely on propaganda.  The elitists have exploited Slave Labor to the point many these workers are permanently injured for the rest of their lives.  They obviously do not give a rat's ass about our National economies and especially they do not care about destroying lives of families because they have no more jobs.  Apple reportedly is one the few businesses (or maybe even the only one) to even acknowledge investigative journalists alarming reports of sweatshop workers in China becoming disfigured from being overworked.

So when Trump speaks to these points he strikes a deep nerve in the psyche of American public.  But I agree with your points...I really don't trust either.  What I like about Trump is that he is agitating many of the elitists whom I despise.  I want revenge against the shi*heads that have sold my country out.  Many of these losers answer to their masters overseas anyways.


I agree, and shortly after I read this, a bolt of lightening struck a tree in my front yard.

#19: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 8:55 am
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"Ted Cruz is Lucifer in the flesh" - John Boehner

You can't make this stuff up.  The 2nd place Republican Presidential candidate is called Satan by his own former party house leader?  And immigration activists are waving the national flag of Mexico while their amigos destroy Costa Mesa police cars and throw rocks at people for attending Trump speech?  As if that is suppose to make people want to support the immigration activists?

I'll be seeking political asylum in Canada soon at this rate.  Mooxe can you help me?

#20: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:06 am
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I have a spare room. But you better hurry before the wall goes up.

I spoke to a Trump supporter here at work. It was so difficult. I had to change the subject as he was literally just repeating what Trump says verbatim almost.

#21: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:30 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):
I have a spare room. But you better hurry before the wall goes up. I spoke to a Trump supporter here at work. It was so difficult. I had to change the subject as he was literally just repeating what Trump says verbatim almost.


So from this I guess you are very familiar with what Trump says, "verbatim".

So, if Trump wins the presidency (fat chance) he has not said where he will deport these migrants to. I vote Canada. But then, they will cross that border too, requiring yet another wall.

#22: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:00 am
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Cruz's rant today against Trump was so true. Cruz is just not a good alternative, and Kasich is a wasted vote.

#23: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:21 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):
Cruz's rant today against Trump was so true. Cruz is just not a good alternative, and Kasich is a wasted vote.


Cruz gone - withdrawn from the race.

How much more policy will Clinton change to get votes. From the start of the Democrats Primary to now, everything she originally stood for has just about changed. Is she lying to get votes ? Also will Trump bring out the book - Clintons War on Women that was recently published to discredit her and Bill Clinton.

#24: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 9:18 am
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So now that Trump wins Indiana, I suppose many more people will exclaim that if Trump wins the presidency, that they will move to Canada. It is funny, I have never hear one such person say that they will move to Mexico. Why is that?

#25: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: southern_land PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:22 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):
So now that Trump wins Indiana, I suppose many more people will exclaim that if Trump wins the presidency, that they will move to Canada. It is funny, I have never hear one such person say that they will move to Mexico. Why is that?


because as soon as you get there you have to more to Texas or California?

#26: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mick_xe5 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 5:59 pm
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Now that Trump is the presumptive GOP candidate, some opinion shapers in his party are claiming they will actively support Clinton instead...which is the conservative equivalent of vowing to move to Mexico.

#27: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:36 pm
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mick_xe5 wrote (View Post):
Now that Trump is the presumptive GOP candidate, some opinion shapers in his party are claiming they will actively support Clinton instead...which is the conservative equivalent of vowing to move to Mexico.


Anything to keep the establishment candidates in power -  Cruz now Clinton. Just shows how far reaching the power of the lobbyist goes in influencing / shaping US politics.

#28: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:05 am
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Strange that Trump is more of a liberal, to the left of Clinton on War (Iraq vote) and trade.  Clinton is not honest by waiting for many months when it was politically expedient to even give a yes or no answer about Keystone XL pipeline & the Trade deal with Asia.  Only when she thought Sanders might beat her did she conveniently come out and state her position.  

I agree that Clinton is an establishment candidate.  Hardly any difference with her positions and the Republican Establishment candidates on War, Trade, Lobbyists, etc.  The only trivial difference is that she supports gays, immigrants and gun control.  Sanders also defies his own party by refusing to vote for the Brady bill or other gun control bills many times in his career.  Sanders is almost like Libertarian but has more liberal views on Education and Healthcare.  I like that Sanders is extremely consistent, unlike Clinton and that weasel Lyin' Ted Cruz.  Good riddance to him.

I hope Sanders wins...that would be the ultimate anti-establishment ballot on both sides.

#29: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:37 am
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dj wrote (View Post):
Strange that Trump is more of a liberal, to the left of Clinton on War (Iraq vote) and trade.  Clinton is not honest by waiting for many months when it was politically expedient to even give a yes or no answer about Keystone XL pipeline & the Trade deal with Asia.  Only when she thought Sanders might beat her did she conveniently come out and state her position.  

I agree that Clinton is an establishment candidate.  Hardly any difference with her positions and the Republican Establishment candidates on War, Trade, Lobbyists, etc.  The only trivial difference is that she supports gays, immigrants and gun control.  Sanders also defies his own party by refusing to vote for the Brady bill or other gun control bills many times in his career.  Sanders is almost like Libertarian but has more liberal views on Education and Healthcare.  I like that Sanders is extremely consistent, unlike Clinton and that weasel Lyin' Ted Cruz.  Good riddance to him.

I hope Sanders wins...that would be the ultimate anti-establishment ballot on both sides.


Agreed. I also hope Sanders wins. He would be very good for the US and the world. Sadly I think the odds are against him now. Will Trump be better than Clinton ? Certainly he couldn't be that much worse, I hope.

#30: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: MajorFrank PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 8:38 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):
So now that Trump wins Indiana, I suppose many more people will exclaim that if Trump wins the presidency, that they will move to Canada. It is funny, I have never hear one such person say that they will move to Mexico. Why is that?


My aunt moved to Mexico from Texas. One reason she moved was because George Dubya was elected.

#31: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:07 am
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MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Stwa wrote (View Post):
So now that Trump wins Indiana, I suppose many more people will exclaim that if Trump wins the presidency, that they will move to Canada. It is funny, I have never hear one such person say that they will move to Mexico. Why is that?


My aunt moved to Mexico from Texas. One reason she moved was because George Dubya was elected.


This being one and the same then...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdEeBoZTrVg

#32: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:32 pm
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How is Hillary Clinton still in the presidential race after Benghazi - lied about the security risk, her lack of knowledge about it and being the most responsible person for downgrading the security at the Benghazi Mission. This is on top of US Military not backing her version of events that cost several US people their lives. Also sending the Diplomat to Benghazi to conduct " arms to Jihadists " and his death.

Also remember the lies about the sniper at the Bosnian airport shooting at Hillary and her escort. She is a serial liar and a stranger from the truth at best.

#33: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:24 pm
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Yes the Clintons play dirty politics for decades since before Bill got elected.  She has serious issues with her credibility.  Not that she deserves a defense but your statements maybe are pulled from a right wing blog.  Clinton had nothing at all to do with Benghazi her opponents just want to exploit the situation for partisan gains.  Trump would be even worse than Clinton.  But I do like how has similar views as Bernie Sanders on several issues.  

I am so disgusted with the Clintons after they yet again played dirty by planting a story in the AP the day before the big primary election in California.  She had someone plant a story  that Bernie Sanders already lost because "delegates" switched sides...the day before the election?  Complete rubbish.  Big Corporate $ media LOVES Clinton & stabbed Sanders in the back and would not even let California, the biggest state have a voice.  Sanders would be wise to wait it out.  Might get ugly with Clinton's email issues.

#34: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:00 am
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[quote="dj";p="84425"]Yes the Clintons play dirty politics for decades since before Bill got elected.  She has serious issues with her credibility.  Not that she deserves a defense but your statements maybe are pulled from a right wing blog.  Clinton had nothing at all to do with Benghazi her opponents just want to exploit the situation for partisan gains.  

The info pertaining to Hillary's involvement in Benghazi comes from Reuters and US media. Details of which are slowly filtering through. As she was Secretary of State at the time, she was the senior most important person responsible for the security of Diplomatic Missions abroad. Hillary would have you believe that her staff made the decisions but never told her.........not likely. Her evidence contradicted several Military personal, one a very High ranking Officer explained how he told the SOS in writing about the security to which she continues to lie.

Lots of the guns currently in use today in Syria came from Libya adding to the evidence already about the Diplomats meetings with other rebels - allied to Al Qaeda. Also more witness testimonies.

#35: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:48 am
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sod98 wrote (View Post):
How is Hillary Clinton still in the presidential race after Benghazi - lied about the security risk, her lack of knowledge about it and being the most responsible person for downgrading the security at the Benghazi Mission. This is on top of US Military not backing her version of events that cost several US people their lives. Also sending the Diplomat to Benghazi to conduct " arms to Jihadists " and his death.

Also remember the lies about the sniper at the Bosnian airport shooting at Hillary and her escort. She is a serial liar and a stranger from the truth at best.


She did admit to a "misspeak" about the sniper incident. I can understand why she may have said that. For one, from my own experience landing in Afghanistan, we wore all our body armour on the plane and came in at a steep fast dive to land. We did this to give any snipers or gun toting enemies less time to take pot shots at us. Did we come in under fire? I'll never know, I never heard anything hit the plane and had no window seat to look outside. This landing tactic is pretty standard in areas where the security surrounding the airport are not completely known. Secondly, journalists and maybe government workers like to claim they were under fire or embellish their stories in hopes it adds to their credibility. Google Brian Williams and you will find the best example. Neither of these are intended as an excuse for her, I think I just understand why she said it.

As for Benghazi. I believe that she would not purposely lead four men to die. I really can't find what she lied about. Post a link.

Regarding her personal email server. Obviously wrong thing to do. This was probably accepted in State Department culture. Everyone would immediately know the emails from Hillary were coming from a personal email address. Their IT staff should of been more on top of this at the time, and Hillary most likely knew better or should have known better. I am sure things have changed by now so this doesn't happen again. Were missing many points to this story though. If she emailed anyone in any US government agency from her personal email, that email would be archived on other government computers. In these cases they are at least recoverable.

#36: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:03 am
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As for Trump. It's hard to really say anything good about him. Most arguments leveled against Trump are answered with "what about Hillary" because there is no defence for Trump. Is he going to build a wall? No. Will there be have a temporary ban on Muslims? No. What of his talking points can people actually see coming to reality? I can't think of any.

I find it hard to believe how so many republicans did an about face to supporting Trump. Chris Christie.... omg.. I was really hoping Paul Ryan would hold his ground, he seems like a great politician, a man you can trust and to roll over like that was disappointing. For the remaining republican Trump hold outs, my respect goes to them, and they will earn much more respect from the american people when this is all over.

#37: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:53 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):
For the remaining republican Trump hold outs, my respect goes to them, and they will earn much more respect from the american people when this is all over.


Forget Trump, the US messed up in the 1960s and 1970s. Many writings in that time predicted what is happening now. The only question not answered is how long will the US remain a nation? Same goes for Canada. And by Canada I mean Toronto and Vancouver.  Laughing

#38: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:37 pm
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As for Benghazi. I believe that she would not purposely lead four men to die. I really can't find what she lied about. Post a link.

Agreed not purposely just through incompetence and arrogance. Why all the lies. Also remember the SOS is responsible for overseeing these diplomatic missions. The buck stop with her and not her Ronald Reagan memory or scapegoats - underlings.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-idUSKCN0RP29820150926
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/01/26/600-requests-from-benghazi-for-better-security-what-this-statistic-really-means/
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KSJWcRS0_0

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3093520/As-Benghazi-aftermath-smoldered-Hillary-Clinton-couldn-t-remember-dead-ambassador-Libya.html
 
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/22/clinton-benghazi-hearing-gowdy-dead-deserve-truth/
 
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/1/hillary-clinton-libya-war-push-armed-benghazi-rebe/
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-to-libyan-rebels-with-us-approval-fell-into-islamist-hands.html?_r=0
 



There really is much more about Clinton in most western media's. These are just some I have found over a very short period. Sadly Trump makes her look good with his temporary insanity. Hillary has changed her policy during the race to resemble Sanders - says anything for power. Also I have found the sniper video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfNqhV5hg4

The only sane one, Sanders but really he hasn't a chance.

#39: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:10 pm
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Because Hillary did NOT lie about Benghazi.  Lots of right wing agitators floating lies on the net, inventing their own facts.  She already was interrogated by the opposition for more than 8 hours and the head guy could not find anything.  I don't like Hillary myself - but it's not a fair criticism what you & her opponents say about Benghazi.  We took advantage of the situation...but had the usual blowback.  Better off not intervening at all in the mid-east as these are the consequences.

#40: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:25 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):
As for Trump. It's hard to really say anything good about him.


Not a fan or supporter of Trump.  But he is not ALL bad and forces the incompetent and hopelessly corrupt Republicans to change their ways.  So here is how he and Bernie are aligned with same viewpoints:

1)  Opposed Iraq War from the very beginning (unlike Clinton)
2)  Opposed to "Citizens United" Supreme Court verdict which lets Multi-Nationals or individuals remain completely anonymous with influence peddling
3)  Opposed to multi-national trade deals which encourage corporations to exploit cheap Commie-subsidized or 3rd World sweatshop labor
4)  Opposed to subsidizing wealthy nations' military defence expenses - for decades Japan and NATO allies have enjoyed paying a mere fraction of their defence. US politicians are stupid enough to spend ourselves into bankruptcy while Germany and Japan invest far more into education/infrastructure/social programs.  Although Trump talks out of both sides of his mouth on this , never giving a clear answer if he would cut spending.  He just says our allies need to pay more.

#41: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:00 am
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
Because Hillary did NOT lie about Benghazi.  Lots of right wing agitators floating lies on the net, inventing their own facts.  She already was interrogated by the opposition for more than 8 hours and the head guy could not find anything.  I don't like Hillary myself - but it's not a fair criticism what you & her opponents say about Benghazi.  We took advantage of the situation...but had the usual blowback.  Better off not intervening at all in the mid-east as these are the consequences.


Those sites listed are from Washington Post and Times, NYT etc. They are your mainstream media that at times have been accused of covering up for Clinton. There is another article that I read more recently where some from the US Military at the same hearing gave evidence that contradicts Clintons. Sadly those conducting the hearing never pushed for the truth and when they did she was evasive. Time will tell but she will never be held to account just like Bush Jr wasn't.


Last edited by sod98 on Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total

#42: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: HogansHeros PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:02 am
    —
[quote="dj";p="84448"]
mooxe wrote (View Post):
As for Trump
1)  Opposed Iraq War from the very beginning (unlike Clinton)

Trump has strongly exaggerated his (early) opposition to the Iraq war:
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/

#43: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:17 am
    —
Trump has strongly exaggerated his (early) opposition to the Iraq war:
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/[/quote]
 
Nice one....................he thought about but never told anyone. A bit like Hillary with the truth.

#44: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:56 am
    —
Another one in the pipeline.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jun/12/wikileaks-to-publish-more-hillary-clinton-emails-julian-assange

#45: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:39 am
    —
Do you think there's people who think Edward Snowden is a hero for releasing all those secrets, and at the same time think Hillary Clinton is a criminal for sending her emails via private server?

With the Freedom of Information Act how much of Hillary's email traffic could of been released anyways? What this all comes down to is 1. How many emails were subsequently classified, 2. Were they compromised? and 3. If they were compromised was anyone or thing put in jeopardy?

This email thing is going to blow over and only be an issue for those that can't drop it.

I couldn't tell if that Guardian article Sod98 posted regarded emails gained through the FOIA or stolen.

#46: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:54 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
What this all comes down to is 1. How many emails were subsequently classified, 2. Were they compromised? and 3. If they were compromised was anyone or thing put in jeopardy?


According to the Espionage Act, it does not matter  Arrow

1. When the emails became classified.
2. If anyone ever saw them [the emails] or not.
3. If anyone [from the US] was put in jeopardy.

Espionage Act

Kenneth Wayne Ford Jr. was indicted under 18 U.S.C. § 793(e) for allegedly having a box of documents in his house after he left NSA employment around 2004. He was sentenced to six years in prison in 2006.[86]

#47: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:20 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Do you think there's people who think Edward Snowden is a hero for releasing all those secrets, and at the same time think Hillary Clinton is a criminal for sending her emails via private server?

3. If they were compromised was anyone or thing put in jeopardy?

This email thing is going to blow over and only be an issue for those that can't drop it.


Your third point is the only the thing that potentially could put her in jeopardy.  All the rest is purely for partisan reasons.  Former House leader McCarthy admitted on live TV that the Benghazi hearings were about weakening Clinton's "approval ratings".  Proving it was just for theater.  When Colin Powell or others before Clinton did it nobody cared.  That being said Clinton faces a serious investigation which has not been completed yet.  It will be all about that point about if there were any security issues and what affect that had.  That stuff is all Classified info.

As a Bernie Sanders supporter, I am hoping that Clinton does have something to hide to force her to withdraw from the election.  It was bad enough Clinton kept dodging questions about her $250K speech at Goldman Sachs.  Now who knows what kind of issues she could face.  Her own Staff should have known better and not let her use the private server.  It could be a huge liability if it got hacked.  Almost impossible to prove though.

#48: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:24 am
    —
[quote="Stwa";p="84461"]
mooxe wrote (View Post):
What this all comes down to is 1. How many emails were subsequently classified, 2. Were they compromised? and 3. If they were compromised was anyone or thing put in jeopardy?


According to the Espionage Act, it does not matter  Arrow

1. When the emails became classified.
2. If anyone ever saw them [the emails] or not.
3. If anyone [from the US] was put in jeopardy.

Brilliantly said.

#49: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:42 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Do you think there's people who think Edward Snowden is a hero for releasing all those secrets, and at the same time think Hillary Clinton is a criminal for sending her emails via private server?

With the Freedom of Information Act how much of Hillary's email traffic could of been released anyways? What this all comes down to is 1. How many emails were subsequently classified, 2. Were they compromised? and 3. If they were compromised was anyone or thing put in jeopardy?

This email thing is going to blow over and only be an issue for those that can't drop it.

I couldn't tell if that Guardian article Sod98 posted regarded emails gained through the FOIA or stolen.


I wouldn't call the people hacking her emails heroes. However if they can access her emails who else is doing the same. I hear that Clinton destroyed one hard drive that was meant to be handed over prior to the hearing, used her Blackberry as she didn't know how to use the email system, didn't password anything and much more. But the real deal is that was wanted regime change in Libya. Even though the Pentagon was against it and said it would lead to lawlessness and the likes of Al Qaeda and IS gaining a foothold in the country. She still pushed it and why ? Well the weapons freed up from Libya are now found in rebels, FSA, Al Qaeda and Al Nusra hands in Syria and Iraq. The Diplomat who died in the Benghazi terrorist attack supposedly was arranging the " arms for Jihadists " to Syria. Draw whatever conclusion you want from that.

Snowden / Assange etc yes. If anyone brings to light wrong doing at any level then they deserve the backing and security of their country. Not the condemnation and criminalizing of their actions.

Also it sounds like Hillary has told a lot or porkies - lies. These emails will show she deceived the hearing and the public. The emails you were referring to in the Guardian article were leaked but by who.........no one has said yet.

#50: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:25 am
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):

Snowden / Assange etc yes. If anyone brings to light wrong doing at any level then they deserve the backing and security of their country. Not the condemnation and criminalizing of their actions.

Also it sounds like Hillary has told a lot or porkies - lies. These emails will show she deceived the hearing and the public. The emails you were referring to in the Guardian article were leaked but by who.........no one has said yet.


Good Points.

But all this talk about emails. mooxe is just using this thread to obfuscate the issue. But the email thing is very simple, and the Clinton Foundation thing may be more complicated.

Since Obama has endorsed Hillary, I am thinking there will not be any indictments. The criminals win.

#51: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:28 am
    —
Since Obama has endorsed Hillary, I am thinking there will not be any indictments. The criminals win.[/quote]

Money talks, BS walks - agreed.

#52: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:16 pm
    —
http://thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/assets/djtdncgucc.pdf


Here is the Donald Trump Report.

237 pages on him up to December 19, 2015. A comprehensive collection of quotes and articles about his life and career. A bit repetitive reading his quotes and its all generally "bad."

#53: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:21 pm
    —
Something as comprehensive as that for Clinton would be useful.

#54: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:43 pm
    —
It now sounds like Hillary Clinton ( Clinton Foundation ) received monies from shadow Corporates like the Bush family owned Carlyle Group. The gun runners to the Moderate rebels from Libya to Syria etc. Can the Clinton's slip any further. This is just more fuel on the Benghazi fire.

#55: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:58 pm
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Here is the Donald Trump Report. 237 pages on him up to December 19, 2015. A comprehensive collection of quotes and articles about his life and career. A bit repetitive reading his quotes and its all generally "bad."


Wow mooxe, you kidder.  Laughing

You provided a link to the DNCs Opposition Report for Trump. It was hacked from DNC servers by Guccifer 2.0.

There is more stuff too, like donor information, etc.

The Smoking Gun DNC Donald Trump Opposition Report



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#56: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:55 pm
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Here is the Donald Trump Report. 237 pages on him up to December 19, 2015. A comprehensive collection of quotes and articles about his life and career. A bit repetitive reading his quotes and its all generally "bad."


You call it,  "A comprehensive collection of quotes and articles about his life and career". - mooxe

This blogger calls it a DNC SMEAR JOB.

Saboteur 365



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#57: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:52 pm
    —
You provided a link to the DNCs Opposition Report for Trump. It was hacked from DNC servers by Guccifer 2.0.

There is more stuff too, like donor information, etc.

Also that donor information contains the Carlyle Group and many other Lobbyists buying her influence. Trump might be a lot of things but corrupt he isn't at this stage.

Also didn't the Russians just get the blame for this hack and one of the heads of NATO ( Stoltenberg ) threaten military action upon Russia and others in the future as this would be an act of war.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyber-nato-idUSKCN0Z12NE

#58: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:03 pm
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
Also didn't the Russians just get the blame for this hack and one of the heads of NATO ( Stoltenberg ) threaten military action upon Russia and others in the future as this would be an act of war.


Yes!  Laughing



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#59: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:19 pm
    —
This is why I do not trust the Clintons.  Never really have going way back to the 90's when I wanted Gov. Brown to defeat Bill in that primary for the same reasons.  There is VERY LITTLE difference between the 2 parties in that respect.  It is partially due to our corruption in both the Primary elections and the campaign fundraising process.  USA is becoming like a Banana Republic unless something changes.  The Primaries are rigged on both sides.

The vast majority of Bernie Sanders supporters like me can't stand Clinton.  She never did answer to Sanders criticism about the Goldman Sachs speech transcripts.  I wish Bernie would run with the Libertarians...some similar views on Civil Liberties, etc.  And i'm tired of all these Rich dudes calling all the shots they don't care about the people one bit...nor what is best for the country.  

 
sod98 wrote (View Post):


Also that donor information contains the Carlyle Group and many other Lobbyists buying her influence. Trump might be a lot of things but corrupt he isn't at this stage.



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyber-nato-idUSKCN0Z12NE  

#60: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:56 am
    —
Also that donor information contains the Carlyle Group and many other Lobbyists buying her influence. Trump might be a lot of things but corrupt he isn't at this stage.

Sanders would have been so good for the USA and the world - a genuine leader.

Another clip from a Benghazi hearing that Clinton might want to change her comments when the leaks are out - ships containing weapons from Libya to Syria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jriU_cPU9Vk

#61: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:59 am
    —
So, does mooxe, snowden, and guccifer have something in common?  Laughing


Link

#62: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:17 pm
    —
Stwa wrote (View Post):
So, does mooxe, snowden, and guccifer have something in common?  Laughing


Link



I wonder if Mainstream media will now give a full retraction and apologize to Russia.......yeah right.

#63: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:33 pm
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
I wonder if Mainstream media will now give a full retraction and apologize to Russia.......yeah right.


I doubt it, but no worry. Poland has NATO's eastern flank.  Laughing


Link

#64: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:54 pm
    —
More stuff from guccifer 2.0 and maybe mooxe too.


Link

#65: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: SheytanArba PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:47 am
    —
I as jew, by jewish law, say, vote for anyone who doesnt support Izrael. There was enough wars that ""we" coused, its time for Izrael to die and free the world from zionists shadows.
If someone says i am antisemithic dont forget, by liberal standards i cant be antisemithic as i am partially semit and i cant be wrong as i am opressed minority. (Witch is moronic but if enemy puts minefiled that helps ur deffence u r idiot not to use it against him).

Trump will stop helping Izrael and Hilary is just player of Izraels most powerfull ppl aka rich jews from Manhatan. Trump will finally stop cold war v2 and have normal diplomacy with newlly formed eastern block aka BRIC. That will maybe save America from going in military dictatorship and ful civil war in 75-100 years after economy gets destroed by semi isolation and rampage cooperations witch will suck ppl dry before they croumble in just private armys.


Pls dont hate on my broken writing as i never learned to write normal any langauge even one my mothers language.  Crying or Very sad

#66: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:56 am
    —
SheytanArba wrote (View Post):
I as jew, by jewish law, say, vote for anyone who doesnt support Izrael. There was enough wars that ""we" coused, its time for Izrael to die and free the world from zionists shadows.
If someone says i am antisemithic dont forget, by liberal standards i cant be antisemithic as i am partially semit and i cant be wrong as i am opressed minority. (Witch is moronic but if enemy puts minefiled that helps ur deffence u r idiot not to use it against him).

Trump will stop helping Izrael and Hilary is just player of Izraels most powerfull ppl aka rich jews from Manhatan. Trump will finally stop cold war v2 and have normal diplomacy with newlly formed eastern block aka BRIC. That will maybe save America from going in military dictatorship and ful civil war in 75-100 years after economy gets destroed by semi isolation and rampage cooperations witch will suck ppl dry before they croumble in just private armys.

Pls dont hate on my broken writing as i never learned to write normal any langauge even one my mothers language.  Crying or Very sad


You sound like Brother Nathaneal.


Link

#67: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:37 am
    —
Doesn't make sense what you say?  You are Jew but certainly does not sound like you live in Israel, quite biased comments.  So where are you then?

Bernie Sanders is also Jewish, parents immigrated from Poland.  And he has the correct position about Israel and better than Clinton.  He says we need to be fair with the Palestinians and Arab minority.  Bernie gets it as a Jew, have to realize the constant conflict will never end unless a fair deal is made to compensate with more land or some other compromise.  When the last Israeli PM tried to do that he was assassinated by right wing extremist whom wanted NO negotiation.  The result will mean it will never end.  Trump talks a lot but never said he would try to force Israel to compromise.

SheytanArba wrote (View Post):
I as jew, by jewish law, say, vote for anyone who doesnt support Izrael. There was enough wars that ""we" coused, its time for Izrael to die and free the world from zionists shadows.
If someone says i am antisemithic dont forget, by liberal standards i cant be antisemithic as i am partially semit and i cant be wrong as i am opressed minority. (Witch is moronic but if enemy puts minefiled that helps ur deffence u r idiot not to use it against him).

Trump will stop helping Izrael and Hilary is just player of Izraels most powerfull ppl aka rich jews from Manhatan. Trump will finally stop cold war v2 and have normal diplomacy with newlly formed eastern block aka BRIC. That will maybe save America from going in military dictatorship and ful civil war in 75-100 years after economy gets destroed by semi isolation and rampage cooperations witch will suck ppl dry before they croumble in just private armys.


Pls dont hate on my broken writing as i never learned to write normal any langauge even one my mothers language.  Crying or Very sad

#68: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:21 am
    —
[quote="dj";p="84519"]Doesn't make sense what you say?  You are Jew but certainly does not sound like you live in Israel, quite biased comments.  So where are you then?

Bernie Sanders is also Jewish, parents immigrated from Poland.  And he has the correct position about Israel and better than Clinton.  He says we need to be fair with the Palestinians and Arab minority.  Bernie gets it as a Jew, have to realize the constant conflict will never end unless a fair deal is made to compensate with more land or some other compromise.  When the last Israeli PM tried to do that he was assassinated by right wing extremist whom wanted NO negotiation.  The result will mean it will never end.  Trump talks a lot but never said he would try to force Israel to compromise.

Force never works............it just creates more hatred. It's another Western mess from the start - gifting a state, but what is done is done. Return to the borders of 1947 and outside countries keep out from financing and supplying weapons and military tech to all. Sadly that will also never happen.

#69: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: SheytanArba PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:16 am
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
Doesn't make sense what you say?  You are Jew but certainly does not sound like you live in Israel, quite biased comments.  So where are you then?

Bernie Sanders is also Jewish, parents immigrated from Poland.  And he has the correct position about Israel and better than Clinton.  He says we need to be fair with the Palestinians and Arab minority.  Bernie gets it as a Jew, have to realize the constant conflict will never end unless a fair deal is made to compensate with more land or some other compromise.  When the last Israeli PM tried to do that he was assassinated by right wing extremist whom wanted NO negotiation.  The result will mean it will never end.  Trump talks a lot but never said he would try to force Israel to compromise.:
[/quote]


As i said i am jew and that i dont have to be from Izrael to speak about it, i cant set a foot in Izrael cuz of my political and military service. but as a jew u should not trust single word i say also. Same goes for Bernie Sanders, he is jew and cant be trusted for single thing. If u dont know me personally u should not trust me especially after i proudlly said i am jew by jewish law. If u juse to to brake golden rule of trusting a jew then listen to me, dont listen to jews, they only love themselfs, Trump is not jew, Hilary is goy, thewre is no choice whom to listen there.

dj wrote (View Post):
Force never works............it just creates more hatred. It's another Western mess from the start - gifting a state, but what is done is done. Return to the borders of 1947 and outside countries keep out from financing and supplying weapons and military tech to all. Sadly that will also never happen.:
[/quote]

@sod98 force is only answer, when there is advesaries left u won, everything else is just truce till war starts again. I tried diplomacy with benders,fsa,wehabies, evry time they brake trust and attack from shadow. Look at history, every truce was just waiting and arming for bouth or one side. Peace is lie, there is only war.

#70: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:27 am
    —
SheytanArba wrote (View Post):
@sod98 force is only answer, when there is advesaries left u won, everything else is just truce till war starts again. I tried diplomacy with benders,fsa,wehabies, evry time they brake trust and attack from shadow. Look at history, every truce was just waiting and arming for bouth or one side. Peace is lie, there is only war.


Me thinks you should let Brother Nathaneal speak for you.  Idea


Link

#71: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: SheytanArba PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:14 am
    —
Stwa wrote (View Post):

Me thinks you should let Brother Nathaneal speak for you.  Idea


Link


He is Orthodox Christian, i am not in best terms with them even tho i work with some of them.

#72: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:25 am
    —
My guess is that you are either ethnic Persian Jew or from Lebanon.  Interesting you refuse to answer my question about where you are from.  Yes I can trust Sanders.  You are wrong about Trump - just because he is not of Jewish decent and is not Clinton, doesn't mean he will be any different.  The Republican Party which he represents invited Benjamin Netanyahu to speak in the most Partisan and divisive speech by foreign leader on U.S. soil in history.  You should do some research on that to learn the facts.  Most of the people in his party are war hawks and want to start more wars.  If you are ethnic Jew, strange why you dislike Bernie Sanders because of his ancestry.

Good luck if you think Israel can be defeated by Arab neighbors.  Already tried that many times and failed.  The only solution is a diplomatic one.  The odds are far more likely of success.

#73: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:50 pm
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
My guess is that you are either ethnic Persian Jew or from Lebanon.  Interesting you refuse to answer my question about where you are from.



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#74: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:52 pm
    —
SheytanArba wrote (View Post):
He [Brother Nathaneal] is Orthodox Christian, i am not in best terms with them even tho i work with some of them.


OK, last chance for you.  Arrow


Link

#75: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:22 pm
    —
@sod98 force is only answer, when there is advesaries left u won, everything else is just truce till war starts again. I tried diplomacy with benders,fsa,wehabies, evry time they brake trust and attack from shadow. Look at history, every truce was just waiting and arming for bouth or one side. Peace is lie, there is only war.[/quote]

War is the biggest lie of all. What's the saying.........the first casualty of war - the truth. war has never settled anything - post WW2 - Cold War, Korea, Israel - Arab etc. No war has ever created lasting peace either. It is human nature to dominate and be greedy though.

#76: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:33 pm
    —
Me thinks you should let Brother Nathaneal speak for you.  :idea:

What a freak and he speaks with an American accent......... Where do you guys get these Trump's, Clintons, Reagans and Nathaneal's etc from - extremists.



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#77: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: SheytanArba PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:43 am
    —
Stwa wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
My guess is that you are either ethnic Persian Jew or from Lebanon.  Interesting you refuse to answer my question about where you are from.


Krasnodar to be more precise, few weeks beofre it was romanian flag there, cant say where tho.

@sod98
War is the biggest lie of all. What's the saying.........the first casualty of war - the truth. war has never settled anything - post WW2 - Cold War, Korea, Israel - Arab etc. No war has ever created lasting peace either. It is human nature to dominate and be greedy though.
No. "Pain is only lanaguge that all humans speak and understand perfectlly" and pain is bigest product of war. If u r only one left there is no truth other then one u say.

@dj
"Doesn't make sense what you say?  You are Jew but certainly does not sound like you live in Israel, quite biased comments.  So where are you then?"

Well, u just got parts of my movements for last 20 years, u r close from one sides, do u know jewish laws?

#78: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:56 am
    —
@sod98
War is the biggest lie of all. What's the saying.........the first casualty of war - the truth. war has never settled anything - post WW2 - Cold War, Korea, Israel - Arab etc. No war has ever created lasting peace either. It is human nature to dominate and be greedy though.
No. "Pain is only lanaguge that all humans speak and understand perfectlly" and pain is bigest product of war. If u r only one left there is no truth other then one u say.

True.......lets hope it doesn't come to that.

#79: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:07 am
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
@sod98
War is the biggest lie of all. What's the saying.........the first casualty of war - the truth.



Link

#80: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:39 pm
    —
Stwa wrote (View Post):
sod98 wrote (View Post):
@sod98
War is the biggest lie of all. What's the saying.........the first casualty of war - the truth.



Link


Yeah good one - cheers.

#81: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:58 pm
    —
Hillary's America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party (2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7e6gLht6OQ

#82: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:40 am
    —
The Republicans are even worse.  Even the Libertarian Party presidential candidate said that recently.  Very little difference between the parties.  Now the incompetence and hopelessly corrupt Congress is having a meltdown about guns instead of doing any real work.  All they do is go around in circles blaming the other side for their corruption or partisan agendas.  Bernie Sanders was more about fixing the real problem which is campaign finance reform.  Congressman can leave after just 1 term and go work as Lobbyists.

#83: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:07 pm
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
The Republicans are even worse.  Even the Libertarian Party presidential candidate said that recently.  Very little difference between the parties.  Now the incompetence and hopelessly corrupt Congress is having a meltdown about guns instead of doing any real work.  All they do is go around in circles blaming the other side for their corruption or partisan agendas.  Bernie Sanders was more about fixing the real problem which is campaign finance reform.  Congressman can leave after just 1 term and go work as Lobbyists.


Agreed, the difference between the two parties is small. Two sides of the same coin.

#84: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Stwa PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:34 pm
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
Very little difference between the parties.


Not true.


Link

#85: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:13 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
"CIA need to be stopped and before they shoot another US President"

When you throw something like that into the middle of your statement, the reader loses focus and your post loses merit. Just sayin!


It is harsh but it is reality / fact that the CIA do far more harm than good. That article expressed how two US citizens died as a result of the CIA supplying arms to rebels via Jordan. Benghazi was the same, Afghanistan with the stingers, Contras etc. Lets not forget that supplying weapons to rebels against any country breaks International Law and those doing it can be held responsible for Crimes against Humanity.

You can't tell me you still believe the Soviets, Cubans, Mafia or a Lone Wolf were behind the shooting surely. A world of disinformation has always crowded the shooting of JFK. From the Warren Commission to Bush Jr's lies about not being in Dallas on the day. Then there was the sole shooter story, ignoring witnesses, editing Zapruder footage etc. Just look at the history of the CIA to see everywhere they have been they have created misery. Any other organization by USA"s definition of a Terrorist would surely be labeled a Terrorist Organization.

It is hard for non USA persons to understand how such agencies can operate with impunity when others are held to account for less. Esp when considering the scope of years, countries and conflicts involved. Who actually is benefiting from the CIA's actions. Remember the CIA didn't advise Bush to invade Saudi A post 911 but Afghanistan, when most of the terrorist were Saudi and had Saudi security handlers. They traveled on Saudi passports, received Saudi cash and given Saudi help. All of this the CIA knew post 911.

#86: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:20 am
    —
Just because you read something somewhere or somebody says something doesn't make it true.  You're reading too people peddling conspiracy theories.

#87: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:44 am
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
Just because you read something somewhere or somebody says something doesn't make it true.  You're reading too people peddling conspiracy theories.


Actually everything I have said is fact with the exceptiion of CIA shooting JFK. Instead of guessing doing a little research would show these things to be true. Also as that clip showed some of these are US publications. What do you guys really think the CIA does overseas - set up schools and provide freedom and democracy. you really need to get out and about it see the truth for yourself.

On the JFK story,,,,,,,,,,,,,,don't you ever wonder why conclusively they have never nailed down one story but many as time has gone by. You are what you are fed. USA today feeds it's public BS. Oliver Stones Untold history of the United States - watch it please. This series is unique as only things that could be proved 100% were used, put past three teams of experts to pull apart. Stone hasn't been sued over anything in this doco. It's about opening your eyes and stop denying what's happening. It isn't anti-Americanism. those doing these things are the anti-Americans ( CIA, Clinton etc ). Also it's not unique to only USA either.

Conspiracy's are theories, these are facts and not mine but readily available to all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl00xC7ZUhs

#88: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:49 pm
    —
With all the conspiracies, theories, gossip, news and facts we are presented with, I am thankful this information about the US Government is so readily available and we are able to discuss it. Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, the Freedom of information Act, freedom of speech and freedom of the media have all contributed to a more democratic and transparent government. To be able analyze the government processes with all the different sources of information means the original intent is still working.

#89: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:11 pm
    —
Very well stated Mooxe.  Despite our political issues and division, I am grateful to live in such an open and free society.   In most of the Mid-East or many parts of the world, we would be sent to prison or worse for making negative comments about the government.  Still that should not make a society complacent or complicit with the actions of those in power.

#90: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: US_BrakeLocation: USA PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:33 pm
    —
I am a US Democrat and am looking forward to President Hillary Clinton taking the oath of office in 2017. I am very pleased with the job President Obama has done in his two terms. I think it will be many years before a US Republican is elected President.

#91: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:35 am
    —
US_Brake wrote (View Post):
I think it will be many years before a US Republican is elected President.


Have to agree on that. The GOP is still split working on repairing Trump's image and getting the message out AND trying to rally behind their candidate. Democrats don't seem to be focusing on Benghazi or the emails and are all in backing Hillary up. She definitely has the home field advantage.

I have never voted up here in Canada. I just think government (US & Canadian) is too large, too wasteful and corruption seeps in because its our nature. So why vote for that. People tell me if you don't vote you don't have a say and you cant complain! My response is being born into this land does not mean I accept the government. My lack of voting combined with many others not voting is the message we send for them to shape up.

So corruption is something I can really just shove aside when comparing any candidate or party. I look at the overall message while at the same time knowing full well behind the scenes corruption is happening no matter who's in. If the message is about acceptance, working together, the common good for everyone and if its generally positive, progressive and believable then that's who I'm for. But I am not voting for them.

#92: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:46 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
With all the conspiracies, theories, gossip, news and facts we are presented with, I am thankful this information about the US Government is so readily available and we are able to discuss it. Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, the Freedom of information Act, freedom of speech and freedom of the media have all contributed to a more democratic and transparent government. To be able analyze the government processes with all the different sources of information means the original intent is still working.


Edward Snowden is a wanted man in the USA for telling the truth - a traitor in the eyes of the US Govt. Manning is incarcerated for 35 years for exposing more US Govt wrong doing. So you can't say they have contributed to a more democratic US society when they are treated as such - that's a total falsehood or propaganda spin. That's similar to what the ME countries might do like Turkey. Others would execute them like Saudi A and Jordan-  US allies.

USA Govt today is just playing at Democracy. They clearly are saying one thing and doing another - metadata, trans- pacific cable, Five Eyes etc. Just saying you are a democracy doesn't make you one - actions speak louder than words. Your country is no more open and free than some Third World countries and Banana Republics. You have seen some info about Hillary Clinton but accept her lies and corruption. Some of you will even vote for her. USA will deserve what they vote for in the long run. More conflicts, higher foreign debt - currently 19 trillion but could be as high as 38 trillions - 102% of GDP etc. All the forms of spying haven't caught one terrorist yet, the info only backs up on cases after identification. We use to laugh at China and USSR's paranoia. USA have gone many more steps past them in Paranoia. Democracy isn't about being free to say something in public.......it's about being listened to when you say it. In the US anyone can say anything, like Trump.....but it means nothing unless someone listens and acts upon it.

If another other country had attacked even half of the countries USA has since WW2- 75 ( 54 singularly ). They would have been deemed a terrorist state at the least. Iraq had only attacked two countries before it got hammered - Kuwait - a western backed dictatorship and Iran - backed too by the US ( Saddam was allied to the US ). Not to mention thousands of other things like - undermining sovereign countries economically and politically - Cuba, Venezuela. aided coups Venezuela, Ukraine, Sth Vietnam, Indonesia, Egypt and many more.Aiding / training / supplying Moderate Terrorists - FSA, Al Nusra, Contras and so forth, assassinations, drone kills, backing and installing dictatorships and much much more.

Democrats and Republicans................Conservatives and Labour - two sides of the same coin. Hillary proves that with massive donations from the Bush family owned Carlyle Group.

#93: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:34 pm
    —
You really are making too many points per post. Points that you have repeated over and over here I might add. I'll respond to your paranoia point. In general, there is no paranoia either with the government or civilian population. Americans want safety and the government created tools to create and preserve safety. These tools invade everyone's privacy but in general, people do not care, have no idea about them or are just indifferent.

#94: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Schmal_Turm PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:16 pm
    —
The easy thing SOD is to just say I agree with pretty much all you have said. I really don't trust any politicians anymore. I have read too much to ever be so naive again. So much of written history is just parlayed out to us to believe the lies that the government wants us to believe without thinking about and/or complaining. It is amazing the number of people who have decided that the government version is a pack of lies and so they do the research to find out the TRUTH and end up dead as a result, many of the deaths declared as "suicide." A nice convenient way to get rid of troublemakers. Sort of like in the old Soviet Union.

For all those who think Hillary is the person to support, I guess they never really listened to or believed any of the myriad of women, many of them former Bill Clinton supporters, who told of the HELL that they were put through by Bill's raping ways. The same women accused Hillary in doing everything she could to make sure that their reputation was trashed should they ever think of pressing charges. Yeah, that is the sort of person I want as my next President.

#95: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: US_BrakeLocation: USA PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:59 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
With all the conspiracies, theories, gossip, news and facts we are presented with, I am thankful this information about the US Government is so readily available and we are able to discuss it. Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, the Freedom of information Act, freedom of speech and freedom of the media have all contributed to a more democratic and transparent government. To be able analyze the government processes with all the different sources of information means the original intent is still working.



Good points Mooxe. Every intelligent and educated person would like to have access to truthful and honest information about our world and be able to make informed decisions about the important things in life. It is disturbing to see how so many people in the US and around the world are so easily influenced by false information and intentional lies.

#96: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:35 am
    —
Today had some rare good news for the politics in U.S.  The U.S. , Canada and Mexico agreed to cut pollution rates sharply by 2025.  But the press conference in Ottawa was dominated by lingering questions about Trump and his intention to repeal NAFTA.
Actually U.S. politics is badly misunderstood by U.S. Citizens and especially the International media.  

Presidential candidates even if elected in the General election (not to be confused with Party Primary elections)...only approve or veto laws. Thus any comments by Presidential candidates regardless of party are baseless since Congress would need to get necessary votes for repeal or enactment of some other new treaty / law.

#97: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: US_BrakeLocation: USA PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:10 am
    —
When Obama defeated Clinton and won the general election in 2008 it demonstrated that the American voters are truly in charge of electing Presidents in my country. I predict that Clinton will win this time around. The reason? She has the character, experience, support and most importantly the political views which represent the majority of American voters. Trump on the other hand represents the pathetic condition of American right-wing political views, political views that have a shocking similarity to fascism. The Republican party was nearly destroyed by GW Bush's leadership and the results are evident in the advancement of a candidate like Trump. Will Clinton be a good President? I hope so. Only time will tell.

#98: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:19 pm
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
You really are making too many points per post. Points that you have repeated over and over here I might add. I'll respond to your paranoia point. In general, there is no paranoia either with the government or civilian population. Americans want safety and the government created tools to create and preserve safety. These tools invade everyone's privacy but in general, people do not care, have no idea about them or are just indifferent.


I'll make it shorter for those with attention problems - US Govt and public paranoia. Spying laws - who have they caught, no one. Guns for protection - terrorist / crim's. lists of countries & peoples US Govt has under watch - China, Russia, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Nth Korea, Muslims, Mexicans and many more. 16 different Intel / Security groups doing the same job........lol. Color-coded terrorism threat that regularly is lifted and dropped for little or no reason - keeps public paranoid. Media that is fixated with terrorism and creating enemies - same list as above plus every other Muslim country. There is so much more like travel which is good for a laugh. Your mainstream media lying is another topic but helps create US public paranoia - WMD's in Iraq, Sarin Gas use by Assad etc. USA's biggest threat today is from it's own state sponsored paranoia.

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/worldwide-caution.html
 
US Govt doesn't provide safety by attacking other countries and creating enemies. But it does appear that the same people only have excuses for their countries illegal behaviour and no reasons. Hillary will be worse than Obama. Trump is an unknown quantity. But USA appears to have missed a true chance for democracy under Sanders.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jun/02/highereducation.books

#99: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Schmal_Turm PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:19 pm
    —
The way I see it, it goes to what is called the “Hegelian Dialectic.”

What this entails is the idea that the elitists in control employ a manufactured crisis in order to implement the plans that they would want to have in order to control the population. The elitists are well aware that when there is a problem the people generally will clamor for the government to come up with a solution that usually results in more control and more surveillance, such as The Patriot Act after 911, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

After all the measures enacted to make us safer in the US, all we really get is more control over the general population. Boston civil-liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate authored a  book "Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent" referring to the number of crimes he estimates the average American now unwittingly commits because of vague laws. New technology adds its own complexity, making innocent activity potentially criminal.

Ultimately, we are not as free as we have been led to believe.

#100: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:48 pm
    —
I doubt the vast majority of Americans are paranoid about these threats. Their feelings are manifested more as bigotry than paranoia in my opinion. I travel often to the states, half my family is American, and there's just no hint of paranoia. The colour coded warning system was ditched years ago, sometime around 2011, and was the butt of many jokes as well.

The mass surveillance is two pronged btw. Its coming from the government for security purposes and corporations for bottom line purposes. Both were inevitable.

Is the US a safer from terrorism place with all these measures in place? I would say yes. Most of these systems are transparent, you don't know about them or any threats they may intercept. If there was no Patriot Act or "16 different Intel / Security groups" would the US be safer? Absolutely not. Is there a better way without mass surveillance? Yes, world peace, but that won't ever happen.

#101: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: pvt_GruntLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:23 am
    —
It seems Trump has sniffed the winds from UK and decided to come out with an anti-globalisation pitch. He's quite clever (or else has good advice) about being a populist 'Everything to Everyone' candidate, but in my experience the people who fall for this trick will be dissapointed if he is elected and his true colours come out.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/28/donald-trump-globalization-trade-pennsylvania-ohio/86431376/

#102: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:29 pm
    —
pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):
It seems Trump has sniffed the winds from UK and decided to come out with an anti-globalisation pitch. He's quite clever (or else has good advice) about being a populist 'Everything to Everyone' candidate, but in my experience the people who fall for this trick will be dissapointed if he is elected and his true colours come out.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/28/donald-trump-globalization-trade-pennsylvania-ohio/86431376/  


Agreed. Populist politicking. Hillary however just changes her mind to what ever Sanders was standing for to get votes. She has no intention of keeping to any election promises.

#103: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:30 pm
    —
Schmal_Turm wrote (View Post):
The way I see it, it goes to what is called the “Hegelian Dialectic.”

What this entails is the idea that the elitists in control employ a manufactured crisis in order to implement the plans that they would want to have in order to control the population. The elitists are well aware that when there is a problem the people generally will clamor for the government to come up with a solution that usually results in more control and more surveillance, such as The Patriot Act after 911, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

After all the measures enacted to make us safer in the US, all we really get is more control over the general population. Boston civil-liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate authored a  book "Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent" referring to the number of crimes he estimates the average American now unwittingly commits because of vague laws. New technology adds its own complexity, making innocent activity potentially criminal.

Ultimately, we are not as free as we have been led to believe.


Agreed also.

#104: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: platoon_michaelLocation: Right behind you PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:34 pm
    —
As an average down to earth Blue Collar American!
Who happens to work with other other Blue Collar Americans

Maybe.........Just Maybe
Americans are tired of the Fucking corporations that are supposedly building America are the same ones Fucking Americans.
Maybe there tired of the bullshit.Watching all the bonuses go to the CEO's rather than the employees.

Maybe..........Just Maybe
Were sick and Fucking tired of them pushing there Fucking ..Lets accept them as who they are attitude and forcing it down our throats ...by passing laws.

Maybe...........Just maybe the Average American is SICK AND TIRED  of being the FUCKING GOD DAMN POLICE FOR THE WORLD!
We ARE SICK AND FUCKING TIRED of watching OUR BOYS DIE for you.....only to have you SHIT on us later on down the road!



Maybe...Just MAYBE
We will finally elect a fucking ASSHOLE (And YES we need an ASSHOLE to set things straight over here)  who will tell ALL OF YOU TO FUCK OFF!
And ACTUALLY say...............Were taking care of ourselves........FIRST!


If that's Trump.........your goddamn right I'm in
Should have done with Ross Perot.


Go watch the Netflix series entitled: The House of Cards...........

Unfortunately that's my Country to a T!
They (Politicians,CEO's or those in the say) don't worry about this Country......They worry about themselves!

And as for the Majority od most Americans ........YOU! went from being the Front Runners on how to build a Country............

To a Bunch of Fucking Sheep.


Last edited by platoon_michael on Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:03 pm; edited 3 times in total

#105: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: platoon_michaelLocation: Right behind you PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:49 pm
    —
Oh by the way

Don't want to be a Boy or Girl?


That's OK in our FUCKING MILITARY.


Fuck we'll even pay pay for it.

#106: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: platoon_michaelLocation: Right behind you PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:07 pm
    —
The ONLY! President who ever did Anything for me as a Middle class worker (as an adult,in my age) was George Bush the 1st.

He sent 2 stimulus packages to me (Checks) to help boost me and the economy.


Not since have I ever received one of those.

#107: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: platoon_michaelLocation: Right behind you PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:16 pm
    —
DJ
Congress is two sets of people with 2 different views..


A President with ONE VIEW.ONE GOAL    (America)

Could unit them


Its been done before.
Dont tell me it cant be done again.

#108: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: platoon_michaelLocation: Right behind you PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:20 pm
    —
We unfortunately don't have the people in place who believe in that.

#109: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:20 am
    —
I am sure most people notice that journalism in this election cycle is pretty poor. The good articles just get buried. As I work in and have my own interest in "IT" stuff the Clinton email saga always gets my attention.

The FBI "found" another 15,000'ish emails. The right is crying foul and and saying Hillary lied again about turning in emails. When the story broke the FBI hadn't even sorted these emails. They could be duplicates of ones she already turned in. They could also be personal emails or emails of no significance. Who knows. Its been described as throwing out bullshit and seeing what sticks. Instead of doing any research some media outlets just throw it out there and let people come to their own conclusion, media's job complete.

#110: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: HogansHeros PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:35 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Instead of doing any research some media outlets just throw it out there and let people come to their own conclusion, media's job complete.

Everyone is too concerned with being scooped to wait for the facts to come in before reporting. You see it in every breaking news cycle too. Almost every time there is an active shooter the stations all rush out with rumors of multiple shooters which almost always turn out to be wrong. If they say "we're getting reports . . ." I just assume that whatever comes next is at least 50% bullshit

#111: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:48 pm
    —
Now Clinton is blaming Colin Powell (again).  Allegedly Powell did recommend to Clinton she use private email, like he did.  However that was long after she already made plans to do so without his consultation.   Regardless Clinton can not dodge this issue and has been very inconsistent with her story, showing a lack of credibility and honesty.  It really is not that big of deal in any event.  Why didn't the Republicans call for an investigation of Colin Powell when he did the same?  

I am hoping that Clinton will cave under all this scrutiny and Bernie Sanders will made the new nominee.  Much like how Trump is starting to cave badly in the polls for the first time.  And many in his own party are still plotting to take him out....hardly the type of support he needs to rally his own side.  I would not be surprised if Trump quits if he continues to drop in the polls.  Even is iron-clad Red State South Carolina...incredibly he is only tied with Clinton in polls.  What a disaster.

#112: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:25 am
    —
Next controversy on Hillary. She used a special program to wipe the hard drives.

Wouldn't you expect her to do exactly that? In the military we do exactly that for drives that were only used for unclassified data and after that they are destroyed. Holding her accountable for actually practicing good security measures is desperate. This controversies only intent is to make her look bad.

#113: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: MajorFrank PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:17 pm
    —
Over here in Finland we have a whole bunch of presidential candidates from the various parties for the first round of voting. They have group debates and those can be quite interesting to watch since pretty everyone gets to have their say. The top two candidates get to go to the second round. Last elections a candidate from a relatively small party, The Greens, got to the second round but lost to he present day president from the right-wing coalition party. But it seems to me that our system seems more egalitarian then the US system where two big money parties just continue to rule decade after decade.

#114: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: crewman PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:37 pm
    —
Arrow's impossibility theorem

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ihGYGU83JZo

#115: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: crewman PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:17 am
    —
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jgZ-mEkE7aU

#116: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:07 am
    —
MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Over here in Finland we have a whole bunch of presidential candidates from the various parties for the first round of voting. They have group debates and those can be quite interesting to watch since pretty everyone gets to have their say. The top two candidates get to go to the second round. Last elections a candidate from a relatively small party, The Greens, got to the second round but lost to he present day president from the right-wing coalition party. But it seems to me that our system seems more egalitarian then the US system where two big money parties just continue to rule decade after decade.


Yes...there is VERY little difference between the parties for several decades.  Maybe for the past 40 years.  The political system requires an extreme amount of money to run television ad's and pay campaign staff.  And the "donor" class comprises of elite special interest factions.  Congress has a revolving door, representatives or Senators are free to go work as Lobbyists after just one term and sell their influence.  Just a tiny percentage truly serve the public interest.  This is the achilles heel of Democracy - corruption and the influence of $.  But no political system is immune from this.

#117: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: UberdaveLocation: Kansas, USA PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:44 am
    —
I can't remember a worse choice in an American election.

Trumpet is a shrewd businessman that will run the country as CEO-in-chief. His Cabinet will be a revolving door of personnel. Diplomatic relations with others will suffer. America will be resented even more by certain parts of the world.

Shillary is a career politician, with all the narcissism and power-hunger that accompanies it. Her marriage to Bill is one of convenience, for the sake of power and upward mobility - not love. She will likely be a very moderate president, not as liberal as most fear. She is to the right of her husband and Obama. She'll also likely get us involved in another war when things start going bad in her administration.

@ michael - I think youre confusing Dubya with Bush I. He issued two 'stimulus' packages to the people. I received a 300, then a 500 check...

#118: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: pvt_GruntLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:35 am
    —
Yes Trump will be a disaster for everyone except China and Russia who will fill the void left by the US.

But part of me still wants it to happen, just to watch the trainwreck.  Embarassed  Twisted Evil

#119: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:20 am
    —
Wow...it could happen.  Trump is consistently tied with Clinton in latest polls or within range of tie.  It would be a trainwreck but I hope the housing market collapses again if he does win.  Home prices are outrageously too high...highest ever, even more than before the economy crashed last time.  With housing prices propped up with fraudulent values, it is only a matter of time until the next crash.  America is taking on way too debt.

#120: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:44 am
    —
The US has a long way to go to fix its political issues and toxic partisan atmosphere.  The Arizona Republic endorsed Clinton, the first time ever for a Democrat.  Then the newspaper received death threats, partisan nuts spit on children selling their newspapers and showed guns to staff delivering papers.  The newspaper already had one of their journalists assassinated 40 years ago.  Even right wing newspapers are getting attacked by partisan nuts.  US is looking like a banana republic when Trump keeps threatening to send Clinton to jail if he is elected.  Weirdest election ever in US history.

#121: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:09 am
    —
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/17/498292062/the-arizona-republic-receives-threats-after-endorsing-clinton

#122: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:25 am
    —
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY

#123: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:49 am
    —
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs

#124: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:17 am
    —
yawn...even Republicans admit there is no voter fraud.  That guy they refer to in the 2nd video is a partisan fraud.  Despite our issues, U.S. elections are the most fair in the world in terms of the integrity of the votes.  Only 31 instances of fraud out of many millions have ever been found.  That's even according to Steve Schmidt, John McCain's former campaign manager.  Trump is trying to stir up trouble and de-legitimize the elections.

#125: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:09 pm
    —
" You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink ". Busing voters across to another state to vote a 2nd time ,to the new way of rental cars - double vote - collusion admitted. Use Shell companies - obvious sign of illegal activity - not illegal but where is that going. Just two things out of many.

#126: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:26 pm
    —
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/18/politics/project-veritas-action-robert-creamer-donald-trump-rallies/

#127: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:30 pm
    —
http://www.hannity.com/articles/election-493995/heads-roll-democratic-operative-fired-after-15212754/

#128: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:30 am
    —
Do you realize you are citing a Partisan right-wing media source?  Fox News has given money to support Republican political campaigns and you don't have to search much to find the history of its henchmen Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch.  Nice that you are a Trump fan but citing partisan sources is not a very effective way to get your point across.

#129: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
    —
I didn't realize that the media weren't anything but neutral. So are the other media sources then all pro Hillary. I think Trump and Clinton are both poor choices and a third party would be better but that won't happen either. Is it true then that CNN is Clinton News Network.

#130: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:24 am
    —
Not a fan of Trump however have to agree with him about maintaining good relations with Russia.  And it's true, we have no clue we group of "rebels" in Syria are friendly towards the U.S. interests and which ones hate us.  Many of these are gangs of thugs that hate both Assad and Western interests.  

It drives me crazy when Clinton and the Democrats keep blaming Russia on Wiki-leaks exposures, yet they refuse to dispute the contents of emails.

Now Russian Aircraft carrier fleet is passing through English Channel.  Yet many media sources are hyping up anti-Russian spin on the actual facts.  Russia, first of all, only has one aircraft carrier, while U.S. has well over a dozen and we keep building more.  So not buying Russia is some dangerous threat when all they are doing is sent their only carrier to provide support in Syria.  Clinton might be more of a war hawk than Trump?  Neither one has any intention of cutting defense spending.

http://www.businessinsider.com/royal-navy-watching-russian-navy-channel-2016-10

#131: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: platoon_michaelLocation: Right behind you PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:12 pm
    —
Ahhhh yeah...........


The Middle Class is embarrassed right now.


Were gonna break for station identification.

#132: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: pvt_GruntLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:09 pm
    —
I read an article recently (sorry cant find source now )  with a European journalist who was baffled at the stir Trump has caused in the US. As he explained, Europe has number of far-right political parties who have sprung up with populist anti-immigration. anti-globalisation agendas. They have been around for decades but recently have increase their share of votes.

He saw the same thing with Trumpism, the only difference being that the US has had a two party state for so long people thought it would always be that way. Or more to the point the insular US electorate never put much thought into global trends at all until it happened in the US as well. Suddenly the sky is falling!

He saw the final play as a split of the Republican party into two camps, the Fiscal Conservatives (big business, Wall Street, international interventionists etc) who have run the party for decades and the new Social Conservatives (anti-immigration, anti-globalisation, anti-NATO).

Also, the Democrats are not immune to this type of split either - ask Bernie.

#133: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:54 am
    —
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEQvsK5w-jY

#134: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:07 am
    —
Mr Fixer - Jeff Rovin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtCYjRzg7Zw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUBrZItwVy4

#135: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:24 am
    —
Do you not realize you are posted video from Partisan Right-Wing activists again?  Sean Hannity?  Right-wing media watchdogs have discredited your other vide of James O'Keefe.   You're drinking from the Right-Wing kool aid.  He has often worked in concert with Fox News including appearances on Sean Hannity.  Why bother to check facts when you can just make up your own news stories on Fox News.

#136: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:29 am
    —
Here are your right-wing activists, Alt Right fans that subscribe to James O'Keefe and his buddies.
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/10/27/james-o-keefe-roger-stone-appear-together-alex-jones-promote-rigged-election-conspiracy/214160

#137: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:30 am
    —
Nuts

#138: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: MajorFrank PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:19 am
    —
In previous elections there's been concern about rigged voting machines, unclear voting tickets, etc. I think it's important that all concern about US elections are sorted out. USA is said to be the richest nation in the world, no reason they can't sort out their elections.

#139: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:12 am
    —
Yes those were very legitimate situations with the Diebold voting machine issues in the past and of course the Florida recount for Bush vs Gore.  This is different.  Low information & misinformed right-wing nuts are stirring up dangerous talk of revolt and overthrow of government.  Fanatical Alt Right follower JAMES O’KEEFE: :I think what happens is the people will revolt. People will -- people are -- I saw it over the last two weeks. I’ve never seen anything like this".

Sad times for USA with trolls like this.  When I read the Media Matter link, I can't believe the crap others Alt Right fanatics said.  Curt Schilling on Breitbart radio is a complete idiot!  My god, stick to baseball Curt!  Interesting I read that even Fox News host told O'Keefe to give it a rest.

#140: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Schmal_Turm PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:47 am
    —
DJ, you sound so much like my brother-in-law. Anything that can be labeled as right-wing is anathema, while anything coming from a left-wing source is considered to be balanced, truthful, factual. There is either so much you don't know about the progressive groups that are in the process of bringing this country to ruin or you just turn a blind eye to them. And yes, that also includes a number of Republicans who are either working for the same ruin or are "useful idiots" as the communist line goes.

There is an interesting person who watched what the progressives did to New Zealand and was concerned for what and how it happened and then wrote a book as to how and what was happening in this country.

#141: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:47 am
    —
Republicans like Colin Powell or Paul Ryan or?  Not sure which Republicans you're referring to.  The party is in chaos right now.  No...I suggest you read my earlier posts.  I am definitely not a Partisan or a fan of any particular party.  Never said there are no left-wing nuts.  I actual despise the Clintons. Neither one plans on cutting the deficeit - completely irresponsible.  Trump wants to double-down on tax breaks for the wealthy like what Bush did while we rack up the debt even more.  And the Alt Right agenda is totally unacceptable with their White Supremacist fans.  Not all of them but I'd say at least 25% of them at least.  I know people like that, scary group of nuts.

#142: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:40 am
    —
There are 2 more options to vote for rather than the massively corrupt Hillary or the narcissist Trump. How was it said the other night  - Fox News ran anti Trump articles for 23 minutes while 25 seconds on anti Clinton. That sounds like a pro trump media....lol.

What does it take for people to open their eyes and actually see Clinton for what she is. The Clinton's make Al Capone look like a innocent school boy.

Prediction for the future - Michelle Obama will run for President in the future and down the track Chelsea Clinton. These are the untouchables and their families. Trump is wrong about lots, but is on the money with last chance for a true Independent candidate to run - Repub's and Democrats are the two sides of the same coin. Just look at their funders - the very same.

#143: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Schmal_Turm PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:23 pm
    —
Yes, dj, you are right to question the people on the right, or at least the politicians. (Actually, I pretty much abhor all politicians anymore.) And the reason the Republican Party is in chaos right now is because it has, by-and-large, gone along with the internationalists who only care for the money they can make and the world control they need in order to keep the market fairly steady. Because of the same things that both parties are doing in this country that are detrimental to the general working population—the people are in revolt. That is what created a candidate such as Trump. A person, warts and all, who is not of the political pack. Thus, supposedly, a person who can do the will of the people. Only time will really tell, assuming that is, he gets elected.

#144: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:33 am
    —
Here we go again.  What a complete clusterfk.  "DickiLeaks" is the headline in the NY Post with reopening of Clinton emails.  11 days til election.  Meanwhile nobody in the media barely focuses on issues that matter.  While the middle class continues to suffer and we rack up huge debt.  Many trillion spent in endless wars in Mid-East charged to the Govt credit card.

Republicans are desperate to take any help they can get.  Sadly they have resort to Joseph McCarthy style investigations.  Benghazi-gate, email-gate, Weiner-gate. Nobody cares.  What about the issues that matter?  The media doesn't care when they get stories like this.

http://www.thewrap.com/ny-post-cover-dubs-clintons-latest-mess-dikileaks/

#145: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:54 am
    —
Tweet from NY Post comment.  Had to laugh but pathetic an election this serious has resorted to tabloid field days.

"Hillary screwed by Wiener that's not Bill's"

#146: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:02 am
    —
What's the saying - where there is smoke there is fire. Well maybe it's past that - where there is fire it is a fire. These latest leaks over more emails could have been dealt with months ago if all emails were handed over and not deleted , denied knowledge of existence and wiping of hard drives. Wait til they look at Mena airport and the Clinton's ...............

#147: re: Evan McMullin Author: mick_xe5 PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:54 pm
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
There are 2 more options to vote for rather than the massively corrupt Hillary or the narcissist Trump...
A fifth option has far more chance than Johnson or Stein of threading the 'Anybody but Trump/Clinton' needle to become president.

#148: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:19 pm
    —
No doubt.  I don't like either one.  Clinton is a crafty lawyer that always changes her position when politically expedient.  Trump is a snake oil salesman and likewise has a long history of inconsistent positions.  I definitely am Libertarian leaning...but I don't like their views with public education or any other government subsidized programs.  State education is hardly free as it is.  Green party rings true for their environmental views and a serious commitment to alternative energy.  Both Parties are hopelessly corrupt because the system requires so much cash to run campaigns and win.  With "Citizens United", they can cowardly hide the source of their contributions.

I'm hoping Clinton has to step down and get replaced by Bernie Sanders.  But then if Kaine is VP, I wonder if he would super-cede the #2 nominee in terms of Primary votes?
Very small chance Clinton did anything wrong.  She aggressively said bring it on, tell me what you have, etc.

#149: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:01 am
    —
Clinton isn't worried about this new investigation as it will conclude post elections. Then she can do what she did to the last investigation - deep 6 it. Last time one of her Democrat friends husbands was tied up in the last investigation - he was promoted and she received campaigns funds. The Clinton's do look after their friends. It has been said Hillary could sacrifice a baby live on tv and still nothing will happen. Has there ever been a President involved in more investigations.

#150: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:26 am
    —
Sod you continue to get all your info from Partisan sources.  Guess why?  Republicans are desperate to try to find something that will stick.  10's of millions of taxpayer $ have been wasted purely for Partisan purposes.  You don't have do look far to find the proof.  Republican House leader McCarthy was caught being too honest on live TV interview, which later cost him his job as leader:

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/09/kevin-mccarthy-admits-benghazi-all-about
 
Republicans will never stop with their endless investigations, cause they have no direction or leadership.  They need to focus on legit issues like cutting spending.  This is why you folks overseas think Clinton did something wrong.  Newt Gingrich investigated Bill for cheating with Monica, while Newt himself was having an affair.  Dennis Hassert lead the Republican "family values" in Congress while he paid paid bribe $ to cover-up sex abuse of male student.  They need to clean up their own act before they point fingers.

#151: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:36 am
    —
This new email controversy is complete bullshit. They just wanted "Clinton Email" headlining the news. Mission accomplished, nothing else to see.

#152: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:34 am
    —
The latest emails could well be a sideline issue. However once again they are emails Clinton hadn't handed over to the commission that her aid had - reason for the investigation I guess.

The videos shown are either true and the events in them have happened or they have very good actors and look-a -likes. Guessing with one sacked and another person from the videos walking away they are true. The Fixer video has had all details confirmed prior to release down to payts, journals and letterheads etc. Once again mainstream media aren't saying anything except Fox News surprisingly. Given the first hiccup from Trump is news.

Seen the latest Clinton video where she suggested US should have manipulated the Palestinian Elections a few years ago.

#153: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:35 am
    —
video - audio

#154: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: BungarraLocation: Murchison region, West Australia PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:48 pm
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A week or so to go before the the bullshit is over....

Speaking from the land of OZ.... thank f..k

Why it is headline news here I don't know...

Like our elections .. politicians... with the 2 party preferred system ... what changes... one just spends more than the other...

then blame each other... ?

Its all f..ked... We are all sick of it... the rich are still getting richer...& running the show....  

Hate to say it but a spanner in the works... Trump .... could .... nah they are all f..ked   Rolling Eyes

#155: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:49 pm
    —
It won't be over next week.

If Hillary wins the election her opponents have until January 20th to "lock her up."

Guaranteed they will do something to try and put her inauguration in question.

If Trump loses, the blame game will start the day after the election. Hope will be given to his voters by putting Hillary's inauguration in question.

We have about two months of election fall out to deal with after November 8th.

#156: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:32 am
    —
More corruption.......surely there can't be any more after this and surely she is history. Who will believe her any more.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/793151362506817536

#157: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:40 am
    —
or if the doubts of Wiki - https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/cnn-drops-donna-brazile-as-pundit-over-wikileaks-revelations/2016/10/31/2f1c6abc-9f92-11e6-8d63-3e0a660f1f04_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_brazile-3pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

#158: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:32 pm
    —
Donna Brazil ironically replaced Debbie Wasserman as head of DNC after she was caught via Wikileaks trying to sabotage Bernie Saunders in the primary.  2nd story on Wikileaks makes Brazil's tenure as head of DNC on thin ice.  Now the Democrats may end up losing the election and what little chance they had in taking back control over Congress.  Clinton is starting to trail Trump in some of the latest polling after the Dickie-Leaks story.  What a disaster.

#159: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:42 am
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Corruption in the Democrats. It starts at the top but it's those under her who will take the blame.

#160: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: southern_land PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:55 am
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Quote of the election so far "its like choosing between Clymidia and Gonorrhea"

#161: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:57 am
    —
Or from the Sun UK - How Anthony Weiner's wiener may shaft Hillary Clinton's hope

#162: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:23 pm
    —
Next crisis for Clinton - Seth Rich murder via Wikileaks

#163: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:15 pm
    —
Assange - Pilger interview - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sbT3_9dJY4

#164: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:07 am
    —
Wikileaks has certainly added jet fuel to the fire. However, these emails usually prove nothing and just add to the conspiracies. The emails are basically tips or clues and cannot be considered proof.

If released earlier, it would of given law enforcement or investigative journalists time to study them.

Instead they were released in a huge data dump right before election. The immediate after effect was that insane amounts of disinformation was created in a frenzy and the credibility of Wikileaks weakened due to the timing of the dumps. Both of which seem counter intuitive to what it stands for.

#165: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:15 am
    —
The "investigations" at Taxpayer expense & conspiracy theories will never end.  First it was the Birth Certificate which was dog-whistle politics for the Alt-Right faction.  And blatantly racist.  Then Benghazi hearings which one of the House leaders admitted on live TV was just for Partisan purposes.  Then that didn't pan out, so they shifted to private emails.  Where were all the cries for investigation with Colin Powell was Secretary of State and did the same?  The Alt Right is destroying the Republicansand will stop at nothing to advance their Partisan agenda.

Sod did you find any more conspiracy theories from James O'Keefe, Fox News or Breitbart radio?  Curt Schilling is going to question why Jews vote for Clinton or some other enlightening right-wing Alt right views.

#166: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:52 am
    —
To say these emails, videos etc are conspiracy theories just smacks of naivety and gullibleness.

The videos alone have resulted in 2 from the shadow Clinton Campaign go. Hillary's aid - Huma Abedin step away and countless others running for cover. Several FBI investigations into the Clinton's, the Clinton Foundation and many others like Lynch, Brazile etc. Where there is smoke there is fire. But how much more smoke til it gets in your eyes, for you to see it I wonder. If this were Trump I'm sure you would see the corruption as most of the rest of the would currently is. Sadly main stream media again is only giving the bad on trump and painting Hillary as a saint. Both are a joke and as said before there are other choice not just those two.

Reason for the drip feeding of the emails - for effect. A single hit is gone tomorrow but this way most see it for what it is.

#167: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:50 am
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This 2016 presidential election is a depressing tragedy for both the American population and the entire world.
First off, it should be noted that there are people who don't think like us. Despite all the division, despair, disapproval etc, there are still a lot of people who think we are moving in the right direction. That if we recognize the problems, they think that we just need to keep going in that direction.

These are usually people in the government. That when we talk about reform. They are truly terrified.
Presidents come and go. But they stay. They have the ability to UN grease the wheels and slow things down.  

One problem is information.
A commentator named Dan Carlin put it like this. He said, when he was starting out in journalism in the early 80s he wrote a article about the death of objective truths. That in the past there were certain things that both sides agreed on being a fact, and they could work there way from there and have a debate and solve problems.
He said he felt embarrassed and stupid for writing the article because there never really were such thing has objective truths!
Nevertheless opinion is so divided in so many directions. And a big problem is good information.

He said, I find my self looking at book clubs. You know, the book clubs, popular among house wife's. They all go off, read a book and then all meet up together and drink coffee and talk about the book.
And he said, I feel jealous about the book clubs. Im jealous because we have all read the same book!  
He goes on to say, when he is having a debate about politics and they can't get to square one because we don't even know the same stuff! He rarely sounds like he losses his temper with his audience but he said, when talking with people about politics its like they were born yesterday!!!  And its immensely frustrating!

Now the facts are the media just don't do there job.
So if you want to get to square one, you will need to agree on one thing. America is in deep need for serious reform.

There problems is what they have done and doing to there people. And what they have done and are doing to the world.

Since President Ronald Reagan finished his last term as president we have seen 2 Democrats and 2 Republican presidents. And since this time it should be abudantly obvious that serious reform is needed.

Despite Americas massive decline since the 70s-80s they are still the most powerful state on earth with absolutely no comparison. And quite frankly they are the most serious threat to life on earth. Im sorry if that's to strong of words but the evidence is there.
I don't think people realize how rich and powerful this country is. And the course they have been going on in the last 40 years is dangerous and wreckless.

Lets talk about a thing I like to call the "Neoliberal assault on humanity." You may disagree on the terminology or what ever. But im talking about the trends that have been going on for the last 40 years.
The inequality that is happening is completely extreme. We have seen huge amounts of wealth and power funneled up to the very top 1 percent. And its the one tenth of the one percent that makes this completely off the scale. So its a fraction of the top 1 percent.
And the damage this is doing will eventually become more and more dangerous.  And it shows no sign of stopping.

A very important thing Americans must realise is that America has shifted so far to the political right that democrats today would have passed off as moderate republicans in the past. As for Republicans, they are completely off the spectrum. Even members of conservative think tanks have described today's republicans party as having undergone and radical insurgency by people who completely ignore reality and real politics.
A guy like Ike Eisenhower today, would be considered a dangerous lefty by today's standards.

As soon as Obama took office what did he do? He rewarded his buyers by appointing some of the lead culprits of the 2007-2008 financial crisis to governmental positions. Particularly in finance!
This is pure and utter corruption. Corruption is so bad in the united states and corporations all most completely control the nation for there own interests. Corporations and naturally pcycopathic intuitions and the damages are already being felt in big and evident ways.

If you look at the voters opinion and policy. There is very little correlation between opinion and policy. But the data shows that there is a massive correlation in corporate money and policy.
Therefore, you can argue that 70 percent of the American population is disenfranchised.
Studies show that people who would normally vote labour in the UK, simply do not vote in the US. Nothing represents them. And in fact, I heard voter turn out is similar to what is was in 1820. A time when most people who forbidden to vote.

The problem is the media and intellectual opinion is very sympathetic towards the state and powerful institutions.
This has always been true through out history. Soviet, English, fascist Japan, Nazi Germany. Intellectual opinion has always been infavour of the powerful state.
We are lucky that the United States is such a open society. We can get access to a lot of information.  But still. There are things that the mainstream media simply don't publish. Barely talk about or spin.
Americans are often sheltered from critical opinions. And it creates a toxic atmosphere of distrust and paranoia.

Let me just challenge a few things.
* Iran is actually a threat.
* The war in Vietnam was a mistake because it didn't work. A noble deed gone a muck.
* The problem with the Iraq war is that they didn't have W.O.M.D. If they did, it would have been a different story.
* That America is a benevolent force of good that has just made mistakes along the way.
* That Iraq was unjustified but Afghanistan was okay
* That Russia wasn't treated treated unfair and that Russia actions in Ukraine are completely normal behavior. That they arena being forced to tolerate something that American would tolerate for a second! (They don't no. Not reported)
* That renewable energy is hard to achieve.
*Drone strikes are okay

I mean, when the top government officials started to talk about the international scandal of America engaging in direct torture, what did they talk about?
All across the spectrum they discussed about whether or not it worked? If torture was affective? First and for most-
-These people are complete and utter psychopaths. Nut cases.

Look at the so called sensible administration of Obama. He has continued the policy of squeezing Russia to the point of putting NATO troops where? East Germany? Former satellites? NO. THE FUCKING UKRAINE!
And if you look at the rhetoric from top American officials, its unbelievable.
The standard opinions and behavior from regular Washington insiders is completely fucking wreckles.

Take a look at any national security insiders writing. And they are all complete radical jingoist nuts.

#168: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:34 am
    —
What Wikileaks and others have published at the end of the day are either real documents and emails or made up. The Clinton camp hasn't denied any hacks or leaks, rather blame Russia etc - deflecting the blame. The facts aren't " Right Wing " but what most see them as an incite to massive corruption. Sadly some can't or wont see them for what they are - conditioned. If you are always told that in this case Clinton is nice, friendly, benevolent, professional etc you will possibly believe that. That's human nature for some not to question but to follow the flock.

As I have said before. The USA will get what they deserve one way or the other. They certainly deserve better than corruption. Wasn't Hillary on the Watergate Investigation til she was let go.... Why so many shady dealings also...that smoke and fire thing again.

#169: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:14 pm
    —
Look at global warming.
The most influential and wealthiest state on earth. And there is literally no discussion about it in the presidential campaign. Its hard to describe the enormity of this incredible blindside.
The republicans say its not happening.
Its amazing how this party can even exist. There sole purpose is to funnel all power and wealth to the very top 1 percent and striping all of the population of all security and benefits. And they are able to do this by appealing to natvist, ultra nationalist and evangelical Christians.  
The democrats are far less extreme but still have the same tendencies. We can see what the democrats did to black communities is the 90s. We can see what they have done to help cause the financial crisis, lifting the class ceiling act for example. They have played there part in overthrowing government and regimes with catastrophic consequences.
Like I said. The average Washington moderate is completely insane and dangerous.

Then there is Hillary. Who pretty much is the epitome of government corruption. This is a women who is so in bed with the neocons, neolibs,tycoons and elites its not even funny. Sorry if im using buzz words here. But its true.
This is a women who "So to speak" has no apologies for Americas twisted manifest destiny and so called benevolent hand in so called world order. Its extremely disturbing.  
She loudly perpetuates this crazy demonisation of Russia. (I make not apologies for Russia. They have a lot of problems. Putins not a good guy) But Hillary is willfully playing on Americas ignorance on the situation to bring back this ridiculous "The reds are back" bull shit.
Then her position on Iran...
Jesus Christ.. What can I say about Iran. How can I explain that they are not a threat. How can you be so easily fooled?

As for Trump. There is no point talking about him. He isn't worth it. He is bad. Self explanatory. You can look at my Brexit posts.

The problem with the Emails is that one of them was released with the non edited version accidentally released as well. Very annoying. I bet all the government officials were happy to see that and let out a big sigh of relief. Now they can argue that none of it can be trusted.

Who cares why the emails are being released. Lets focus on what they actually say.
Its amazing how the outrage is centered on the source and how outrageous that is.

If you are a person who defends government spying then you are to far gone to bother with. Anyone who thinks that majority of spying is for legitimate reasons is living in lala land.
Its obvious that the reason things are classified is because we would be pissed.
We now know the extent of the spying. And its way out of any reasonable means.

All you have to do is look at Americas history of spying. Its involved intimidation's and assassinations for purely political dissident reasons. Not conspiracy. Real history.

Carlin said he had a long talk with a top guy from the NSA. He wouldn't talk about any specifics only broad generality's. He asked him "How much of the classified material and things that should be classified". And he said about 10 percent.
The rest was everything you could think of. Often corporate interest.

#170: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:36 pm
    —
Who cares why the emails are being released. Lets focus on what they actually say.
Its amazing how the outrage is centered on the source and how outrageous that is.

If you are a person who defends government spying then you are to far gone to bother with. Anyone who thinks that majority of spying is for legitimate reasons is living in lala land.
Its obvious that the reason things are classified is because we would be pissed.
We now know the extent of the spying. And its way out of any reasonable means.

All you have to do is look at Americas history of spying. Its involved intimidation's and assassinations for purely political dissident reasons. Not conspiracy. Real history.


Of course you are right that the contents is more important than who leaked them. This tactic that the Clinton campaign uses of " deflection " blaming the Russians is laughable. In laymens terms it doesn't matter who informed upon the thief providing the information is correct and then the information is acted upon. Also another point is how so many around Hilllary and her husband are corrupt but they aren't. It's like catching / arresting all of a mafia family but their Don is innocent...........lol.

Corrupt Hillary, narcissist Trump or bury your heads in the sand if you aren't strong enough to look for an alternative.

#171: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: pvt_GruntLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:36 pm
    —
Antony_nz wrote (View Post):

One problem is information.
A commentator named Dan Carlin put it like this. He said, when he was starting out in journalism in the early 80s he wrote a article about the death of objective truths. That in the past there were certain things that both sides agreed on being a fact, and they could work there way from there and have a debate and solve problems.
He said he felt embarrassed and stupid for writing the article because there never really were such thing has objective truths!
Nevertheless opinion is so divided in so many directions. And a big problem is good information.


Love Dan Carlin! I listened to that podcast too.

#172: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:03 pm
    —
Daily Mail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3901376/Secret-recordings-fueled-FBI-s-desire-probe-Clinton-Foundation-case-moves-likely-indictment.html
 

Maybe the mail is also behind trump............lol.

#173: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:16 pm
    —
Sod you should get a job on Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh or Breitbart radio.  All you ever do is propagate the same old recycled rubbage that ever other Right-Wing fanatic speaks about.
Yeah there are a lot of investigations.  Trump in case you were not aware is also under investigation for tax evasion, fraudulent use of his own charity to help himself to some of the donations.  And Trump's campaign chairman Manafort was forced to resign due to his investigation.  

Brit Humes again works for the most Partisan news network in US.  Brit Humes also issued an apology 2 days later on video saying he made a "mistake" that there are not indictments.  And Rudy Giuliani had inside information leaked on Fox News 2 days before Comey sent the letter.  Do you even know what the letter from the FBI said?  I think not.
All Comey is doing is saying they found more emails.

The only thing that matters are the FACTS.  You get it?  You can keep pimping all these stories but don't amount to a hill of beans because it's all hearsay and Partisanship.

#174: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:22 am
    —
Dar Carlin is one of the most popular podcasters in the biz.  Longest posts ever by Anthony.  Putin invaded the Crimea because the Ukrainian govt unraveled and he exploited the situation.  It had nothing to do with Obama conspiring with NATO.  When Ukraine had a revolution in 2014, that ousted the Russian loyalist government and gave a golden opportunity for Putin to exploit the anarchy that followed to his advantage.  And he did just that.

As far as Obama "selling-out" when he took office by placing industry experts in cabinet / admin positions...that is another lie spread by leftist extremists.  You can not place political partisans or others without experience in those positions.  Just because they working in banking/financial business does not automatically make them crooks.  This is the long traditional routine in US Govt.  The other thing is that CONGRESS makes the laws, not the President.  Yes Obama could have placed left wing or industry outsiders in those positions, but that would have been criticized too by his opponents.

I liked what Carlin had to saw about the disappearance of "objective" truth.  When both candidates and their surrogates state lies, repeatedly.  It becomes like an urban legend.  Facts begin to not even matter in the Blog-osphere of the Partisan universe.  Fox News has a bunch of Partisans on interviewing their own entourage of loyalists fabricating their own fact.  And if "oops"  Brit Hume made a mistake.  They keep running with it anyways.  

Democracy is very weak right now internationally.  If the U.S. is suppose to be the leader of Democracy, we are doing a terrible job at it.  


pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):
Antony_nz wrote (View Post):

One problem is information.
A commentator named Dan Carlin put it like this. He said, when he was starting out in journalism in the early 80s he wrote a article about the death of objective truths. That in the past there were certain things that both sides agreed on being a fact, and they could work there way from there and have a debate and solve problems.
He said he felt embarrassed and stupid for writing the article because there never really were such thing has objective truths!
Nevertheless opinion is so divided in so many directions. And a big problem is good information.


Love Dan Carlin! I listened to that podcast too.

#175: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:44 am
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
The only thing that matters are the FACTS.


Exactly.

Does the system need to be reformed? Reformed probably means more rules... more governance, I think most people agree we do not want more of this.

Its the people using the system that need reforming.

#176: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Schmal_Turm PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:42 am
    —
dj, consider this:

•  Under Bill Clinton, 45% of all gains in personal income went to the top 1% of the country.

•   Under George W. Bush, 65% of the gain in income went to the top 1%.

•  And according to Emmanuel Saez, a top liberal economist from Berkley, under Barack Obama, 91% of the increase in earnings went to the top l%.

So how do you reason that the most liberal person to ever hold the Office of the Presidency also is responsible for the greatest earnings of the highest earners?

#177: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:43 am
    —
Presidents don't make laws.  That is the role of Congress.  Dan Carlin summed up it well in his latest podcast.  It's due to Corruption.  Our political system is extremely dependent on $ to win.  So Congress only cares about getting re-elected and to not upset the donor class.  Obama is suppose to regulate financial earnings or force Congress to change laws to make employee compensation more fair?  When Republicans have no interest whatsoever in any deals with him.  You can't pin the concentration of wealth on the President. It is a trend that has taken decades and I think is a consequence of Corporate Globalization.  Companies will do anything to make a $...workers are just a commodity.  That's the reality of the situation.

#178: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:01 am
    —
DJ - Likewise, you should seek employment with the Clinton News Network - CNN. They have failed to advised the public over far more than just the Clinton Election Race - WMD's in Iraq etc. All you ever do is make excuses for a clearly crooked candidate - Clinton. The FBI have found no reason to prosecute Hillary over these email even though Hillary's house maid had access to classified documents and the 650,000 emails were view in 10 days. That's 65,000 emails a day........lol. Also she is only clear of - " and found nothing to alter its months-old decision not to seek charges against the former secretary of state for her use of a private email server ". Wapo - guessing you don't mind them. So other investigations are preceding still like the Clinton Foundation Investigation etc.

I guess security clearance these days allows maids to help the SOS - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html

Clinton Foundation sponsored wedding dress ( Haiti will love this one ) - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3910746/Chelsea-Clinton-used-Foundation-money-fund-wedding-according-new-Wikileaks-emails.html
 
Her character judgement - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3910996/Clinton-adviser-admits-donors-giving-money-foundation-bad-intentions-latest-Wikileaks-dump.html
 
Then there is the body bag list, Bill payt of $860,000 to a under age girl out of court settlement. Mana and much more.

Nice quotes - The FBI - the dog that wont hunt.
                - Only dictators and their henchmen are above the law.
                - Hillary wants immigration so her maid can do the house work and answer her emails
                - Maybe the cleaner received the request for more security in Benghazi from Ambassador Stevens.

Wikileaks isn't right wing and to date hit their target everytime. Wikileaks have published over 860,000 pages of text against Russia also. So they look for corruption in all.

#179: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:55 am
    —
Typo - not Mana but Mena as in Mena Airport.

Clinton wins all talk and investigations into corruption will disappear. They will never reach a full conclusion. And the mushrooms will continue to be kept in the dark.

#180: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:28 pm
    —
Another classic quote - " How come these people that don't like Trump, pretty much always want to take off to Canada but not Mexico? They racist or something? ".

#181: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mick_xe5 PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:04 pm
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
Another classic quote - " How come these people that don't like Trump, pretty much always want to take off to Canada but not Mexico? They racist or something? ".
The maple syrup cartel up there is less likely to kidnap or kill you. Plus the lingua franca is almost pidgin English.

#182: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:04 pm
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Wikileaks has certainly added jet fuel to the fire. However, these emails usually prove nothing and just add to the conspiracies. The emails are basically tips or clues and cannot be considered proof.
 
If released earlier, it would of given law enforcement or investigative journalists time to study them.
 
Instead they were released in a huge data dump right before election. The immediate after effect was that insane amounts of disinformation was created in a frenzy and the credibility of Wikileaks weakened due to the timing of the dumps. Both of which seem counter intuitive to what it stands for.

 
The way I would say it is the information released by Wikileaks doesn't reveal anything majorly new. A lot of it is just confirming what we already know or suspected.  
As for the timing i don't know if there is any evidence that it was deliberately released at that time. It was probably the sources fault. Not Wikileaks. (?)   
 
Besides, you can't really blame them. (Wikileaks or Russia). She is going to win. She serves as a massive counter interest to both parties. And the timing probably gives the most impact and exposure, so we can be aware of what this persons like. A person who will lead the biggest state on earth.
Yeah, its true that Trump isn't getting the same treatment. But its probably because he isn't belligerent towards Russia. 
For me, personally its like. We don't need dirt on Trump. The guy is so terrible that it shouldn't make a difference.
I mean if tomorrow we found out that he brutally raped a women, or raped a child I honestly wouldn't think any less of him Smile
 
As for conspiracy's theory's. That’s another discussion. I wasn't alive in the 40s, or 60s or 80s. So i wasn't talking to people. But all i can say is conspiracy theory's are a big big threat! HUGE problem. And it seems like the problem is worst than ever.
It goes back to the argument "we don’t know the same stuff".
 
You know how you sometimes feel apprehensive to publicly talk about evolution? (God knows what that feeling is like inside the united states *Shudder)
Its like that.
I literary feel apprehensive to talk about NASA. About global warming. About Aliens. About history. ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST!
Because so many people have ideas that are radically different from our best understanding of facts.
Often its well intentioned honest people who start believing these things. I have little doubt that the American government is well aware of the 911 conspiracy theory's and is more than happy about the peak in popularity it received. We may one day find evidence of this.
I think there are historical examples of this. But i forgot them.
 
Its a reasonable possibility that some of the people who are concerned and worried about information coming to light via something like wikileaks would in fact contribute to the leaks with bad information in order the de-legitimize the leaks.
Not a crazy idea.
Governments do take online discussions seriously, Russia, China and Israel for example.
Anyway. The conspiracy theory's need to stop.  I saw blatant one about Hillary Clinton comments made in private. I spent ages trying to verify it. RT news was the biggest news agency reporting it. Just shocking.
Take the Reptilian conspiracy theory. Completely insane.  Very common.
These ridiculous beliefs that all the leaders are not human and all of our problems are caused by a outside force is manifestation of the hopelessness and lack of understanding of the population. There are many people and things to blame for this.





[/quote]
Love Dan Carlin! I listened to that podcast too.[/quote]


He is fantastic isn’t he? He has a real great way of talking about things. The “Martian view”. A very good way of looking at things. All you need to do is understand the facts and drop all your pre conceived biased assumptions. I realize more than ever the important of history. It’s the closest thing to a crystal ball you can get.

   [quote="dj";p="85335"] Putin invaded the Crimea because the Ukrainian govt unraveled and he exploited the situation.  It had nothing to do with Obama conspiring with NATO.  When Ukraine had a revolution in 2014, that ousted the Russian loyalist government and gave a golden opportunity for Putin to exploit the anarchy that followed to his advantage.  And he did just that. [quote/]

No doubt. 
I'm trying to verify the story on American involvement with the coup. And I cant at the moment. Ill stop saying until I can verify the story.
Regardless America and NATO are still big bad villains in this situation. Remember they started this soon as the Berlin wall fell. The threat of these two cant be overstated.
The United States in the 1980s almost brought the world to terminal nuclear war while probing Russian defenses. This is a big deal! A very hostel dangerous country. Russia would have every reason to take them as a serious threat.
Your still forgetting that America is expecting Russia to act in a way that America wouldn't dream of acting.

Its a very good exercise to try and imagine America as normal country. Its very helpful experiment.

As for NATO. It was the agreement that they shouldn’t move a inch to the east. And that’s exactly what they have done. Americas and NATOs action since the end of the cold war is completely out of control. Says a lot about the cold wars doctrine. Cold war being about far more than basic communist threat and more about controlling the world. Particularly the 3rd world.
Remember America is committed to the principle that Russia should not have a sphere of influence despite Americas massive sphere its self.

I know its sounds like I'm desperate to pinpoint everything on USA, but Americas role should not be forgotten in the sea of hysteria and complete lack of context to the situation. America has been planting missiles right next to Russia's border for ages.  
All of the worlds powers would of let out a huge sigh of relief when America embarked on there wars and policy's after 911. Its gave brutal regimes all over the world the go ahead to act completely out of international (So called) laws and norms. It really normalized the international banditry that we saw in the previous century.
I don't like Putin at all. A saying I have is "I don't like Putin because he behaves like America. But in his defense, he just acting like America".
Its NATOs existence that has helped caused this crisis.

[quote="dj";p="85335"]
As far as Obama "selling-out" when he took office by placing industry experts in cabinet / admin positions...that is another lie spread by leftist extremists.  You can not place political partisans or others without experience in those positions.  Just because they working in banking/financial business does not automatically make them crooks.  
[quote="pvt_Grunt";p="85332"][quote="Antony_nz";p="85328"]

 
No. It doesn't automatically make them crooks. Problem is. He appointed a lot people who are complete crooks.

Look, I have been very quick to defend Obama. I would still defend him now. I'm aware that there would be massive constraints on the president. I know the Republicans have a unwritten rule to make the country ungovernable.
But it gets to the point when you have to wonder when things stop being forgivable. Look at the TPPA. The debate's over. This thing is bad news. And barely even a trade agreement. Shocking direction. Whys he doing it?
Dan Carlin actually touched up on the argument. He says: "Okay but not Okay, because these reforms need to get done. And the longer it goes on the harder it will be fix".
This is why Hillary having won is so depressing. And I really wish Bernie Sanders won. Such a shame...
These people appointed inside the Obama administrations shouldn't be glossed over with the title Industry experts. They are actually part of what in my opinion is a really fucked up ideology and behavior. They have made the list of culprits and it was a huge disappointment to people who wanted reform. I wouldn't be so quick to defend Obama on these appointments. Its worth moaning and getting angry about.

[quote="dj";p="85335"]
This is the long traditional routine in US Govt.
[quote="dj";p="85335"]

Fuck up. Complete fuck up.
[quote="dj";p="85335"]
The other thing is that CONGRESS makes the laws, not the President.  Yes Obama could have placed left wing or industry outsiders in those positions, but that would have been criticized too by his opponents.[quote="dj";p="85335"]


Yea, your right about congress making laws. Its a big problem. I think that would be a good thing about this election. Isn't the congress going to take a reshuffle and this new administration is going to be backed by a democratic congress? You tell me, I'm not sure how it all works. I think I read somewhere that the republicans are going to lose there majority. Should be very helpful. The problem is, the democratic party has pushed so far to the neoliberal right that there own party and leaders may be a obstacle
Arguing that a serious reform period would of been criticized by is opponent's is .. well.. true, but still very frustrating and damaging. I know that Obama has been severely restricted. But its not easy just to stop the serious criticisms.  
As for acting like the only alternatives to appointing these scums bags would be "Left wing radicals or industry outsiders". I cant really comment as I'm not there or familiar with every name and person. But I doubt its like that.   
I highly recommend "Inside Job" documentary. Very well researched and presented. The problems it talks about are very big systemic issues.

mooxe wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
The only thing that matters are the FACTS.

Exactly.
Does the system need to be reformed? Reformed probably means more rules... more governance, I think most people agree we do not want more of this.
Its the people using the system that need reforming.


Yeah alot of people using the system need reforming or.. need to go. But i dont like the "More rules" aspect. I appologise if I grab what you said and move in a completely different direction but the more no rules mentality has been a problem is some aspects. The massive amounts deregulation in certain sectors have been a huge root cause of a lot of problems in my view. I think the small government advocates have just been using that as a excuse to continue on there agenda.
I didn't think the idea of not needing reform should be in question, as the system is so bad and has been for so long. It has a long habit of gravitating towards this path. Sorry to use such vague terms but I cant be bothered reiterating the problems your using the correct terminology to clearly describe what I think the problems are.
I think- reforming the people using the system- is itself a type of reform! 

dj wrote (View Post):
Presidents don't make laws.  That is the role of Congress.  Dan Carlin summed up it well in his latest podcast.  It's due to Corruption.  Our political system is extremely dependent on $ to win.  So Congress only cares about getting re-elected and to not upset the donor class.  Obama is suppose to regulate financial earnings or force Congress to change laws to make employee compensation more fair?  When Republicans have no interest whatsoever in any deals with him.  You can't pin the concentration of wealth on the President. It is a trend that has taken decades and I think is a consequence of Corporate Globalization.  Companies will do anything to make a $...workers are just a commodity.  That's the reality of the situation.


Yeah.. I suppose your right.
No less frustrating.

Schmal_Turm wrote (View Post):
dj, consider this:
•  Under Bill Clinton, 45% of all gains in personal income went to the top 1% of the country.
•   Under George W. Bush, 65% of the gain in income went to the top 1%.
•  And according to Emmanuel Saez, a top liberal economist from Berkley, under Barack Obama, 91% of the increase in earnings went to the top l%.
So how do you reason that the most liberal person to ever hold the Office of the Presidency also is responsible for the greatest earnings of the highest earners?

Great post.
These problems need to get dealt with. And soon.

#183: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:53 pm
    —
mick_xe5 wrote (View Post):
sod98 wrote (View Post):
Another classic quote - " How come these people that don't like Trump, pretty much always want to take off to Canada but not Mexico? They racist or something? ".
The maple syrup cartel up there is less likely to kidnap or kill you. Plus the lingua franca is almost pidgin English.


I would have thought the skiing was better too.

#184: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:57 pm
    —
Its the people using the system that need reforming.[/quote]

The very people you want to reform have corrupted the system and will fight against any reform to protect their interests and to stop future prosecution - bribes, " looking after friends " body bag list etc.

#185: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:51 am
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
Its the people using the system that need reforming.


The very people you want to reform have corrupted the system and will fight against any reform to protect their interests and to stop future prosecution - bribes, " looking after friends " body bag list etc.[/quote]

To help prove that point - Key # DNC Leak 2 emails - Cozy with CNN, silencing journalists & pinning it on Putin.

#186: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:06 am
    —
I guess Donny boy is coming for Clinton mafia. I hope Bill and Hillary like porridge.

#187: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:41 am
    —
Breaking.
This is a huge upset. Jill Stien is set to beat the projected winner.Bernie Sanders!

The only bad news is that the Republicans are set to win the senate. A huge blow to the progresion of humanity.

#188: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:42 pm
    —
Brit Humes again works for the most Partisan news network in US.  Brit Humes also issued an apology 2 days later on video saying he made a "mistake" that there are not indictments.  And Rudy Giuliani had inside information leaked on Fox News 2 days before Comey sent the letter.  Do you even know what the letter from the FBI said?  I think not.
All Comey is doing is saying they found more emails.

The only thing that matters are the FACTS.  You get it?  You can keep pimping all these stories but don't amount to a hill of beans because it's all hearsay and Partisanship.[/quote]


Well it does look like Brit Humes and Fox Network were the more realistic and accurate media forums / commentators for these elections. So what does it make the others like CNN, CBS, ABC and also NYT and WAPO........................lol ( propaganda ). So far off the mark.

#189: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Schmal_Turm PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:03 pm
    —
On CNN last night it was so funny to watch John King who was so concerned about Trump that for hours on end he would bring up on screen the main battleground states of Wisconsin, Florida, etc., and he would show how Hillary's support in the major city strongholds was going to somehow change the direction in her favor. One of the personalities on CNN, I think it was Dana Bash, you could see the quiver in her voice when she had to announce how Trump was doing.

It was delicious to watch.

#190: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:04 pm
    —
Idiots.  Trump is the most ill-informed, dis-honest and un-ethical person to ever get elected.  He is all lies.  The establishment Republicans is firmly in control of Congress yet again.  They will raise spending for more wars, give more tax cuts to the wealthy and add trillions more in debt.  Nothing will change.  Nothing will get reformed.

#191: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: platoon_michaelLocation: Right behind you PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:16 pm
    —
Way to go Trump!

Starting off Right!

#192: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: platoon_michaelLocation: Right behind you PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:19 pm
    —
And we have the HOTTEST! First Lady since Jackie Onassis.


Sorry Bill,You cant be first lady.    he,he,he

#193: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:22 am
    —
[quote="dj";p="85362"]Idiots.  Trump is the most ill-informed, dis-honest and unethical person to ever get elected.  He is all lies.  The establishment Republicans is firmly in control of Congress yet again.  They will raise spending for more wars, give more tax cuts to the wealthy and add trillions more in debt.  Nothing will change.  Nothing will get reformed.[/quote


DJ come on. Your whole statement describes the Clinton's over the last 30 years. Even Hillary's advisors were saying she has no judgement. Then there is all of the investigations , some of which are still going - FBI into the Clinton Foundation. Trump was a Democrat for far longer than he has been a Repub. He is anti war if you decided to listen to his statements. The thirty years Hillary has been a politician the gap between the rich and poor has increased, the divide between ethnic tolerance hasn't changed. Obama a Noble Peace Prize  winner when given the award had two conflicts in progress - today seven.

It might not change and won't unless Trump purges those Establishment politicians who opening did all they could to disrupt his run - Paul Ryan.

Well done the USA for stopping the rot.

#194: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:07 am
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):


Well done the USA for stopping the rot.


Not there yet.

#195: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:06 am
    —
Not there yet.[/quote]


The rot / corruption is stopped and just needs removing now. A big and long task. Kennedy failed to remove it.

#196: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:41 am
    —
I think the new rot will be information and education. Quality of media information is very poor. The ease of lies being spread via social media is too easy. I doubt anyone posting in this thread needs examples of it either. Comment bots, comment people, summarizing a complicated issue down to a single point, trolls...

#197: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:02 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
I think the new rot will be information and education. Quality of media information is very poor. The ease of lies being spread via social media is too easy. I doubt anyone posting in this thread needs examples of it either. Comment bots, comment people, summarizing a complicated issue down to a single point, trolls...


Yes dead right. There have been many comments very wide of the mark. Like how Wikileaks emails come to nothing even though every leak published was and is true - nothing refuted or proved incorrect. They have also had a influence upon the election. The backing of what clearly is now a biased media that some were easily influenced and fooled. Current state of the media can surely only get better now that their bias have to laid open for all to see. I also agree about the use of social media in the election not to be under estimated. But I disagree that it was largely a negative one when most main stream media wasn't up to seeing Trump win let alone cover both sides of the election equally. Trolls............well people normally refer to others as trolls when they have nothing better to say or have found themselves to be incorrect and use the Clinton defense - deflect blame on others.

Maybe education for the masses will improve with the shrinking of defense / policing other countries and a commitment to building infrastructure  - schools, hospitals etc domestically.

Looking forward to seeing what happens post election to the Clinton Foundation - maybe Haiti will see some cash to rebuild their infrastructure instead of weddings.

#198: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:33 am
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
Not there yet.



The rot / corruption is stopped and just needs removing now. A big and long task. Kennedy failed to remove it.[/quote]
I dont think Kennedy was as great as people think.

#199: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:25 am
    —
I dont think Kennedy was as great as people think.[/quote]


I never said great. I think he was going to attempt to drain the swamp back then but was removed before he could start to. He was good for not continuing that fiasco " bay of pigs " round 2 though.

#200: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:34 am
    —
Well, after a long brutal history of supporting practically Neo Nazi national security states, with it spreading to central America by the 1980s, in 2016, just like 911, the chickens have come home to roost. America has gotten the president they deserve.
Some of what trump says makes sense, but its going to be interesting to see if he will implement some of his more far out policy's. The tax cut is going to be brutal.Tax cuts seem to have a very obvious and direct way of fucking the country.

There are a lot of similarity's between this election and the election of Ronald Reagan.Turns out both candidates were wildly unpopular in the 1980 election. It was when some discussions began about the poor choices of candidates. And of course they were both trashy celebrity's.

Ronald Reagan was a very simple childish man. Not smart. Apparently his advisers were completely shocked when he took office about his lack of basic understanding of the world around him. Another similarity there.

In all honesty I hope he does a really terrible job and causes a lot of damage.It would be a shame if he just does a normal job as president and goes down in history as better than Reagan, or worst than Obama or what have you.

America could of been very good. Could of helped the world. But they have been the enemy of humanity for many decades now.
They have been a massive obstacle to peace,prosperity,democracy,equality and development.
Its a shame what he will do to global warming, but i hope he burns the country to ashes, and from those ashes will spawn and progressive spirit.

For argument sake lets just call him a fascist for a minute. Unfortunately America just likes fascism!  
And we must be really quick to announce that America is a sick evil twisted nation. We must tell Americans this. Look them in the eye, say your country is sick and disgusting. And make sure you don't get any counter arguments like "Its just the government that's bad, the people are okay". OR, "Yeah but there are a lot of good things about America".

There are many, many reasons for why Trumps win. I wont try and cover it. But I just want to mention this. Americans love "Cool guys". The "Team America" films song "America fuck yea" is a pretty good indication of there mentality.
Americans have a very infantile minds.
Think about it.

Trump- bad ass cool guy
Obama- super cool
Bush- cool cowboy cool
Clinton - ridiculously cool
Bush Snr - NOT COOL!
Reagan - Cowboy cool
Carter - NOT COOL! (LOL charity)

Sorry to troll, many countries face the same problems as USA.

#201: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:15 am
    —
I think Trump's is run for the Presidency for the right reasons. He doesn't need the money and can't be worse some of the others. Talk is cheap everywhere but I do hope he does some of the things he has set out to do. That will be success and worth remembering and the measure of the man.

All the best Trump, his team and the country.

#202: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:11 pm
    —
Lol i think you made a few errors there.

#203: PZt_HNiC Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mattymattcarmichaelLocation: United States PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:25 am
    —
Listen, the simple explination is this.

Right now we have an almost completely godless world where we have all been idly sitting by while coporations and a criminal elite have amassed huge quanities of wealth all the while keeping the reigns of our monetary systems in the hands of their friends and family.  A world where they would do anything including arming and funding the very "boogie men" they terrorize us with so that they can constantly and consitently take away the very liberties that were granted to us by our creator. Whoever or whatever that might be to you. Science, God, Allah, Buhdda, Brahma, Vishnu, Jesus, that doorknob over there.

Trump is the figure head of a second American Revolution.

Former high level Army, Marine, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard, CIA, Pentagon, NSA, FBI, etc, etc, etc, etc are working closely with him behind the scenes, believe that.  None of them want to see a third World War because they know that it will involve nuclear bombs. He is simply the amplified voice of the PEOPLE in my country. White, Black, Red, Brown, Purple and Yellow, we all came out in mass to vote for him because we want to save what is left of our dying country.

Say what you will, but I personally am hoping that Trump can do his part to bring peace to the world starting out by simple making the United States a sovereign nation again.

Someone here had it right when they stated that everything is being blown out of proportion by the "mainstream" media, at home here in America as well as abroad. Think of us electing Donald Trump in the same way that you treat the UKIP rallying the people to support the Brexit. We are fighting an uphill battle for the freedom of our nation, for the last vestiges of Liberty, Truth and Justice that my country was designed to be the shining beacon of.

It really tears me up inside to watch people my age who are in the streets protesting violently wearing the colors of communism, spouting the words of fascism and rascism, uneducatedly exclaiming that Donald Trump is a rascist and a biggot.

The democrats in this country founded the Klu Klux Klan as a left wing army to disrupt the vote to abolish slavery in this country, and then when it suited them they appealed to the minority voter by pretending to support the civil rights movement while also backing the very power structure that assassinated the leaders of said movement (King, X, Kennedy.) Hillary Clinton took money from Saudi Arabia, a country where gays are thrown off of roofs, women arent allowed to drive, women can be disfigured for looking at a man that isn't family, and women arent allowed to leave the house, which is why thier new found right to vote is a joke. We also forget that republican and democrat powers have grown fat on the military industrial complex that has funded their rise to power and has fomented dissent and installed communist (or worse) regimes all across the world. THANK GOD that Donald Trump arose to take over the republican party and try to restore that which our founding fathers laid out for us with thier Declaration of Indepenance. Thank god they were too stupid to run Bernie Sanders (a liberal, socialist f*cktard con-man) who probably could have eeked out a victory over Donald Trump. My nation is so close to tasting actual prosperous freedom again and it makes me want to cry.

Here I am, one voice out of millions in the silent majority that has cast a vote to elect a man we believe can use his business savvy and his true love for the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, the American way and the Amercian dream we were all promised. And when I say America I mean South America and North America as well as my United States. We really need to bring wealth, prosperity, rule of law, and honest free market economics to this hemisphere again in the hopes that the infectious feeling of freedom and hope can spread the fires of liberty once again throughout the world.

I just want a world with limited government controlled by the people. A world where we clothe the naked, feed the hungry, and house the homeless. A world where science, mathematics, art and agriculture are the things we cherish above all else. I want my children and your children to teach thier kids to love eachother and take care of this planet until we improve ourselves well enough to explore the solar system and inhabit other planets without the need for monetary gain, military muscle, and self loathing hatred that breeds the very evil that we are fighting to free ourselves from in this current day.

May god bless all of you and may god watch over you and your country while we here in America work to clean up our side of the street and inspire you to clean up yours.

-Pzt_HNiC

#204: Re: PZt_HNiC Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:27 am
    —
mattymattcarmichael wrote (View Post):
Listen, the simple explination is this.

Right now we have an almost completely godless world where we have all been idly sitting by while coporations and a criminal elite have amassed huge quanities of wealth all the while keeping the reigns of our monetary systems in the hands of their friends and family.  

The democrats in this country founded the Klu Klux Klan as a left wing army

Thank god they were too stupid to run Bernie Sanders (a liberal, socialist f*cktard con-man) who probably could have eeked out a victory over Donald Trump. My nation is so close to tasting actual prosperous freedom again and it makes me want to cry.



Yes Bernie Sanders would have defeated Clinton.  The DNC conspired with Clinton to cheat Sanders of a fair primary election.  Your choice of words is like calling Trump an Alt Right, fascist, con-artist.  And you're about 50 years behind the times.  Now the KKK now has David Duke endorsing Trump and just had a victory day parade in NC this week.

How does Trump solve  "corporations and a criminal elite have amassed huge quanities of wealth all the while keeping the reigns of our monetary systems"? by trusting a Billionaire elitist whom pays nothing in tax & advocates more tax cuts for these same corporations and elites?  Doesn't make much sense.  I highly doubt he is going to change that.  Rich get richer and poor and middle class get poorer.  

From ESPN today:

SAN ANTONIO -- Spurs coach Gregg Popovich spoke openly Friday about Donald Trump:

"I'm still sick to my stomach, and not basically because the Republicans won or anything, but the disgusting tenor, tone and all the comments that have been xenophobic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic," he said before the Spurs' home game against the Detroit Pistons. "And I live in that country where half the people ignored all that to elect someone. That's the scariest part of [the] whole thing to me."

#205: Re: PZt_HNiC Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:29 am
    —
mattymattcarmichael wrote (View Post):
Listen, the simple explination is this.

Right now we have an almost completely godless world where we have all been idly sitting by while coporations and a criminal elite have amassed huge quanities of wealth all the while keeping the reigns of our monetary systems in the hands of their friends and family.  A world where they would do anything including arming and funding the very "boogie men" they terrorize us with so that they can constantly and consitently take away the very liberties that were granted to us by our creator. Whoever or whatever that might be to you. Science, God, Allah, Buhdda, Brahma, Vishnu, Jesus, that doorknob over there.

Trump is the figure head of a second American Revolution.

Former high level Army, Marine, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard, CIA, Pentagon, NSA, FBI, etc, etc, etc, etc are working closely with him behind the scenes, believe that.  None of them want to see a third World War because they know that it will involve nuclear bombs. He is simply the amplified voice of the PEOPLE in my country. White, Black, Red, Brown, Purple and Yellow, we all came out in mass to vote for him because we want to save what is left of our dying country.

Say what you will, but I personally am hoping that Trump can do his part to bring peace to the world starting out by simple making the United States a sovereign nation again.

Someone here had it right when they stated that everything is being blown out of proportion by the "mainstream" media, at home here in America as well as abroad. Think of us electing Donald Trump in the same way that you treat the UKIP rallying the people to support the Brexit. We are fighting an uphill battle for the freedom of our nation, for the last vestiges of Liberty, Truth and Justice that my country was designed to be the shining beacon of.

It really tears me up inside to watch people my age who are in the streets protesting violently wearing the colors of communism, spouting the words of fascism and rascism, uneducatedly exclaiming that Donald Trump is a rascist and a biggot.

The democrats in this country founded the Klu Klux Klan as a left wing army to disrupt the vote to abolish slavery in this country, and then when it suited them they appealed to the minority voter by pretending to support the civil rights movement while also backing the very power structure that assassinated the leaders of said movement (King, X, Kennedy.) Hillary Clinton took money from Saudi Arabia, a country where gays are thrown off of roofs, women arent allowed to drive, women can be disfigured for looking at a man that isn't family, and women arent allowed to leave the house, which is why thier new found right to vote is a joke. We also forget that republican and democrat powers have grown fat on the military industrial complex that has funded their rise to power and has fomented dissent and installed communist (or worse) regimes all across the world. THANK GOD that Donald Trump arose to take over the republican party and try to restore that which our founding fathers laid out for us with thier Declaration of Indepenance. Thank god they were too stupid to run Bernie Sanders (a liberal, socialist f*cktard con-man) who probably could have eeked out a victory over Donald Trump. My nation is so close to tasting actual prosperous freedom again and it makes me want to cry.

Here I am, one voice out of millions in the silent majority that has cast a vote to elect a man we believe can use his business savvy and his true love for the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, the American way and the Amercian dream we were all promised. And when I say America I mean South America and North America as well as my United States. We really need to bring wealth, prosperity, rule of law, and honest free market economics to this hemisphere again in the hopes that the infectious feeling of freedom and hope can spread the fires of liberty once again throughout the world.

I just want a world with limited government controlled by the people. A world where we clothe the naked, feed the hungry, and house the homeless. A world where science, mathematics, art and agriculture are the things we cherish above all else. I want my children and your children to teach thier kids to love eachother and take care of this planet until we improve ourselves well enough to explore the solar system and inhabit other planets without the need for monetary gain, military muscle, and self loathing hatred that breeds the very evil that we are fighting to free ourselves from in this current day.

May god bless all of you and may god watch over you and your country while we here in America work to clean up our side of the street and inspire you to clean up yours.

-Pzt_HNiC



Hey mattymattcarmichael. Your factual errors are constant and appalling. We must not respect someones opinion when its ignores such basic rules of reality.
I think its great that young people are out on the street protesting. Wearing the colors of communism? Lol, Its Americas move away from communism that's the problem.
If you look at all the problems of America its obvious that its because of Americas bipartisan shift towards the right.

Sorry to sound to sound so ideological but i think any suggestion that America is moving to far to the left is absolutely ridiculous.

Godless nation? America is the most religious nation ever. What are you on about?

Mike Pence is a nut case! And so are you.
There is no strong evidence that Kennedy or Martin Luther was assassinated by democrats. How ridiculous. And why are you pinning racism on them? Republicans are clearly the most racist party in these times.
Democrats didn't found the KKK. You are a complete nut!
The KKK was a left wing army? Your crazy.

Sod98. Trump didn't run for the right reasons. If you think he's going to do what he said then your delusional. The mere fact that the GOP has gained power alone is a huge disaster for the world.
Mike Pence may very well be worse than Cheney.

#206: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:06 am
    —
Mooxes last comment seems quite relevant now.

When Trump first won it was very satisfying to see a surprisingly large amount of universal correct self diagnoses on the part of the media. Its only been a few days and the idiots are out in force.

There are a huge combination of reasons of why he won. But i think we can boil it down to the mass dissolution of politics and the unnecessary suffering on the part of the electorate.
And the fact that Hillary was so unpopular.

Its kind of horrible to see the normalization of Trump being president in the mainstream media already. (CNN you low-down bastards) In my opinion a organized movement of angry protesters is very good and healthy. Its shocking to see so many people bad mouthing these angry young people. I could understand people voting Trump to send a message or to stop Clinton. But to suggest this guy will actually follow through with his change platform remains doubtful. We are already getting a lot of alarming news.
Despite not being a insider its highly likely this guy will enact mainstream republican policy. It will be fascinating to see if any of his policies rub against his party.

I'm already seeing people posting Micheal Obama 2020 memes. God! Have you not learned your lesson? We don't need the wife of a child killer- I mean establishment politician. We need a good, strong, honest reformer.
The democrats need to go back to there pre-Clinton era. Before when the party represented the little guy. (I know i hate that term )  Before they became so intertwined with fat cats.
A way to solve Americas slow move towards fascism is not a great leap towards fascism! I honestly believe that a lot of Americans look at this and seriously don't mind it. Fascism is just something they like.
Why talk about boring facts when you can just roll your sleeves up and act strong and cool?    

I feel as if the Democrats change into republicans was a reaction to Reagan and loss of Carter. I'm hoping that the loss of Clinton will move them in the opposite direction. But as Carlin put it. I'm sure they would rather make cosmetic changes. P.R. Not meaningful reform that is desperately needed.  

The outrage that Sanders supporters should be feeling cant be overstated. The polls suggested that he was a better candidate from the beginning. And he advocated real issues while Clinton was just being a mainstream republican.

Now, i read that Clinton has blamed the F.B.I?Its incredibly stupid to pin it down to just the FBI when you consider all the other factors including her massive short comings.  
However, it is worth talking about.
The F.B.I and the C.I.A are in my view, basically criminal organizations. If you look at there history.. I think they did have a invested interest in Trump winning over Clinton. I think they CIA and FBI and other such organizations thrive under corrupt authoritarian regimes.    
James Comey is the guy who has received criticism for deciding to pop in a last minute investigation before the election. All you have to do is look at the fact that this guy voted for Mit Romney to realize that he is a complete lunatic.
He also teaches Sunday school.  Wink  Very Happy

Sorry for the mistakes in my writing. I have been operating on a huge lack of sleep lately.

#207: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:17 pm
    —
Anthony - " America's move away from Communism ". Surely you mean from Socialism. US has for the most been in a right leaning political sphere. Look no further than the Rockefellers, Prescott Bush, Herbert Walker etc whose families today were the backers of the Clinton campaign. Also their historical influence upon the US since pre WW2 ( Henry Ford awarded the Grand cross of the German Eagle etc ). Oddly Trump was a Democrat with no allegiances to the Establishment. So it is easy to see how Trump can be seen as more Left Wing. I guess he thought it easier to get to the White House through the Repub's nomination than the Clinton Dynasty maybe.

Mike Pence has been described as boring but hardly does that make him a " nut case ". Founder of the KKK was a Democrat - Nathan Bedford Forrest. He was also a Confederate Officer during the Civil War not that that has any bearing on this.

If Trump didn't run for the right reasons then what - strongly non Establishment. It's a dangerous job to ruffle the wrong people as JFK found out possibly, just for the power. The real danger being the media backed Clinton's seem to have some still believing she is a saint. Another fake story to go with the Bosnian snipers and the " jackup " interviews. Such a coincidence.

Margot Gerster - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3929382/Was-Hillary-hiking-woods-photo-staged-Woman-picture-met-Clinton-fundraiser-family-hosted-ex-candidate.html
 
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that either Pence or Trump will be worse than their predecessors - Libya, Somalia, Syria etc. That's sheer speculation based on bias and fear. He has been democratically elected and until voted out or removed the rest is history or will be. The media bias is clear. They donated a whooping 96% of their donations to Clinton and the rest to Trump - Oliver Stone. Wikileaks revealed 2 days ago how George Soro's is funding the organized anti -Trump protests. This guy is open anti Jewish and a far right agitator. More alarmingly he is another big supporter of Clinton's Campaign - $9m. He also has many of his people in media like - Amanpour - CNN, Thompson was  - The Atlantic, Boardman - Dean of the School of Media and Communication at Temple University and Soros " funds Black Lives Matter groups. According to a Washington Times analysis of the Soros-funded OSF's tax returns, the organization gave at least $33 million to BLM groups in one year. The Daily Beast attempted to cover for Soros, but their story was based on OSF simply denying they fund BLM and trying to claim that it would be impossible to track the $33 million ". Hillary is so unpopular because of the many stories over so many years - no trust left.

A little research goes a long way sometimes

#208: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:06 pm
    —
Sod can you please tell me what you are smoking and send some to me?  Just because you read something on a blog doesn't make it true.  Information is not the same thing as facts.  Be Sounds like you're getting all your make believe facts from Breitbart or Alex Jones.  

Pence is a nut.  Antony is right.  Pence chose to pursue far right wing culture war agendas signing a Gay discrimination bill behind closed doors in private. Then after numerous businesses announced they would boycott his state, he choked at press conference to repeal his own bill.  It took him over a minute to even say a word.  If Trump dies in office we're screwed with this nut next in line.  I believe he is a War Hawk as well.  

Enough with the lies about the KKK.  Really that is the oldest right-wing jedi mind trick in the book.  When Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Bill in 1964, all the Southern Democrats from Confederate States switched parties.  That was over 50 years ago.   Since that time the Republican party took them in with open arms and adopting a Southern Strategy which has kept the entire South firmly under their control ever since.

#209: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:02 am
    —
I too believe it was Comey's letter that sunk Clinton's campaign. The three typically blue states she was projected to win, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania she lost by 1%. Comey's letter then the followup saying we found nothing was the tipping point in an already close election. Those whose votes were swayed by these two events were swayed by disinformation and lies. The Trump campaign, capitalizing on this fortune basically went on radio silence to let it play out and it worked.  I think Comey made it public because it was going to be leaked anyways, and it was probably better to have full disclosure. I wouldn't say he is personally to blame, circumstances dictated his actions.

Trump did not easily win this election. There was no landslide of the silent majority or undercover Trump supporters. We all know the popular vote went to Hillary. I think I even read somewhere that voter turnout was the lowest in 20 years.

IMO.... The anti-establishment point is a cop out for everyone who was voting for him to remove the immigrants, build the wall, ban muslims etc. They were on board well before "drain the swamp" ever became a thing. Trump is establishment.

#210: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:03 am
    —
DJ - Calm down child. So Pence has a Conservative view on gays. That still doesn't make the guy a nut. I think your bias of others views taints reality and as a result you type and post out of fear. So once again you say I produce a link you doubt while you produced nothing but your unqualified rants......lol. Please post something next time that doesn't involve your personal feelings like the gay community etc. Trump " I believe he is a War Hawk as well ". Well you clearly didn't think as there currently is no proof. Show me where Hillary and that woman don't know each other and by chance can't remember each other. I will look forward to that please..........lol.

The KKK question and 1964. I love it. Was Forrest still around then ? Keep blaming others and believing in crooked Hillary as " you can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time " - Abraham Lincoln. But maybe you are the exception.

You clearly don't need to smoke anything and I suggest you don't with that personalty of yours - truly weird.

#211: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:46 am
    —
Ha ha ha. You don't like what I wrote so you say I need to calm down.  I think you must get all your info from right-wing nut You tube videos.  Signing a bill designed to allow people to discriminate against Gays is not a "Conservative" viewpoint.  There are plenty of "Conservatives" that do not share that viewpoint.  It accomplishes nothing to rally behind that type of culture war agenda.  Religions are free to worship as they wish.  It is not necessary to implement Right-Wing extremist laws to attempt to shame Gays.  If you don't like them, fine, but how does legalizing discrimination help unite a nation?  It doesn't.

You make no sense whatsoever about your KKK rants.  I know English is not your first language?  But what conceivably are you trying to accomplish.  The racists, white nationalists, KKK members all switched to the Republican Party in '64 because of the Civil Rights Act.  That's all there is to it.  And the Republicans have adopted a very effective Southern Strategy ever since.  Trump adopted that strategy to perfection.  Look at the Electoral maps for every single election since '64.  The old Confederate states vote Republican every time.  Can't spin that.

#212: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:04 am
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
...voter turnout was the lowest in 20 years.

IMO.... The anti-establishment point is a cop out for everyone who was voting for him to remove the immigrants, build the wall, ban muslims etc. They were on board well before "drain the swamp" ever became a thing. Trump is establishment.


Yes Clinton got something like 6 million less votes than Obama.  Not only that but a large percentage of Bernie Sanders supporters refused to vote for her.  The only reason why I did is because I think Trump is not qualified for any public office.  Straight from the beginning, years ago he started out with "Show me your papers" attacking Obama's ethnicity.  Blatantly racist.  I honestly don't even think Trump himself is racist.  Rather he is simply pandering for votes from low information, uneducated white working class voters.  That is the text book Southern Strategy by using fear mongering tactics to scare especially older whites with no college education.  Worked to perfection.

I think you are spot-on about "drain the swamp" being a cop-out.  It's a false flag.  The person that is proud to zero-out and not pay any taxes, refuses to disclose his tax returns, in the elite top 1% $ wealthiest Americans, surrounded by Republican Establishment surrogates, is to support to "Reform" our system?  All lies to get votes. And all of it is going to free...he never says how he will pay for anything.  He gives the most vague simpleton plans, never with any specifics.

#213: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:28 pm
    —
DJ - It's just that once again you are terribly wrong. That link on Clinton's walk in the woods is from Britain's Daily Mail. Considering you supply no links, just provide more mindless jabbering rants. Calm down as I feel you are quickly losing the plot again with more of the same boring denials. Just because Trump and Pence dislike your leanings doesn't make them nuts. However your failed pick in the Democratic elections, ( backed the wrong donkey ) possibly wasn't elected due to the fact people just don't trust her. The protest vote rubbish is just more from the media who like you and some others failed to see that trump was going to win. Clinton had hundreds to rallies were Trump had thousands and  that's not a protest vote. The Wikileaks certainly aren't Right Wing. It's just that most of the rest of the world see the US as Far Right Wing and further Right Wing politics. Wiki to date have been 100% correct I believe unless you have proof otherwise.....look forward to seeing it. Veritas YouTube vid's resulted in 4 Hillarites step down from the extended campaign. Your media is crap in cover both sides unless it's the two sides of the same coin campaigns of old.

You mention war agenda. Hillary says she would have continued on Obama's foreign policies. Since Obama received his Noble Peace prize.........lol. USA are in conflict in 5 more countries, a total of 7 - Pakistan, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya and Syria. I don't need to tell you the rest of her history surely. Trump talks of mending bridges while Clinton wanted to bomb them in short. Trump like Obama like others before can't please everybody. But surely being Democratically elected should mean that the public to a degree agree with his policies. The popular vote is meaningless as Hillary never gained more than 50% therefore more than 50% of the population dislike her too.

My KKK rant was shortened so not to spend so much time embarrassing you further with more of your mistakes. You can't rewrite history. Forrest was a Democrat and no matter what was signed off in 1964 doesn't change the fact Forrest was a Democrat in the 19th Century child. Remembering post Civil war Lincoln being a Repub would mean lots would vote for Democrats in the South for sometime to come. Some states went Repub - freedmen, population drift and depopulation of white males in the South all contributed to this. But wasn't " every single election as you lied again - http://www.270towin.com/historical-presidential-elections/

You really are grasping at straws on this one and it smacks of desperation, embarrassment and naivety on your part. Learn some history boy before you gob off and make yourself look more pathetic.

Anti Establishment Trump, Gingrich, Bannon, Giuliani and more. Trump will need some Establishment politicians - Ryan, Priebus. But surely will purge them after a settling in period. I would like to see him go after the corrupt Clinton's and their camp - Soro's, Podesta and so on. Also change the corrosive foreign policy as he has stated he would. Domestically you guys would have things like the massive FD - 20 trillion, health care, education, jobs, security, immigration etc. Just a couple of these would be success compared to the other failed Presidents of death and destruction.

#214: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Ernie_M PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:40 pm
    —
Your a wise person sod98
Excellent post!

Hopefully, Trump and company can fix
the mess that MOTUS created!
                                           Very Happy

#215: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:19 pm
    —
Sod you admit to getting your info from James O'Keefe YouTube videos?  Yes that's what I thought...you are are completely indoctrinated by the right-wing media bubble.  O'Keefe is a fraud and has a criminal record.  Now Bannon was just criticized by Jewish groups for his links to anti-semitic white nationalists.  The Alt Right are Fascists.  There are no Anti-Establishment Republicans in Congress.  Mitch O'Connel and Ryan are completely corrupt owned by Special Interest Lobbyists.  Nothing will change.   It is all a gimmick to get votes.  Trump is not even a real Conservative.  He already is caving on full repeal of Obamacare.

Get ready for more of the same old Republican Establishment agendas.  If you think Obama was bad with too many military wars...just count down the Days until the Republicans re-invade Iraq or start a new war.  The Republicans are the War Hawk party and they will find some Democrats to go along with them like they did with Iraq.  WHAT LINKS?  Try Google, Mike Pence fell on his sword, had to repeal his own "Religious Freedom" law that legalized discrimination of gays.  Then he lied saying it was the same thing Clinton passed in '93.

#216: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:35 pm
    —
Sod you are really sounding more and more mis-informed and ignorant with each post.  You continue to deny that for the past 50 years the KKK has supported the Republicans.  What is your point?  During the Civil War they were Democrats?  That was over 150 years ago.   Really waste of my time to even bother to respond to your ridiculous rants.

#217: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:51 pm
    —
Yes I lied.  Only when Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton won the Confederate States (because they are white Southerners themselves).  Otherwise this has been the outcome of every other election ever since the President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act.  These are the States where the KKK is from and where there is still a persistent problem with racism.

http://www.270towin.com/1964_Election/

#218: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:02 am
    —
DJ - Did you not look at the link provided to see the sea of Blue in the South 1880 and there are others - http://www.270towin.com/1880_Election/

Unlike you I read as most posts and articles on these matters. It gives a more balanced view unlike the one you keep bending and twisting to suit fantasy of these elections and their protagonists. In the real world it doesn't matter where the truth comes from - Wikileaks. As long s the truth get aired especially when in the light of day, how clear the Democrats were out of control. I did notice that none of the links I had given over the election period have been refuted or proved to be lies. In fact once again you failed to mention Wiki, just more mindless ranting.

Do feel free not to reply unless this time you want to tell the truth for a change, use some real historical facts and accept that what really undid Hillary was her past of lies and a campaign filled with deceit and dirty dealings. Otherwise reply and keep me laughing at your less than school boy rants child.

ps 3 replies - panic, unbalanced and desperate...................lol.

#219: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:05 am
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
DJ - Did you not look at the link provided to see the sea of Blue in the South 1880 and there are others - http://www.270towin.com/1880_Election/

Unlike you I read as most posts and articles on these matters. It gives a more balanced view unlike the one you keep bending and twisting to suit fantasy of these elections and their protagonists. In the real world it doesn't matter where the truth comes from - Wikileaks. As long s the truth get aired especially when in the light of day, how clear the Democrats were out of control. I did notice that none of the links I had given over the election period have been refuted or proved to be lies. In fact once again you failed to mention Wiki, just more mindless ranting.

Do feel free not to reply unless this time you want to tell the truth for a change, use some real historical facts and accept that what really undid Hillary was her past of lies and a campaign filled with deceit and dirty dealings. Otherwise reply and keep me laughing at your less than school boy rants child.

ps 3 replies - panic, unbalanced and desperate...................lol.


Everyone, keep the convo civil just as it was up until page 4. If you can't say it in person don't bother typing it. This post is just one example.

Insults or baiting are not required to get a point across.

#220: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Schmal_Turm PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:12 am
    —
dj, as much as I hate to say it Michael Moore has a good view of the reality of politics:

"Bill Clinton, and most other contemporary Democrats, did not and will not do what is best for us or the world we live in. We don't pay their bills - the top 10 percent do, and it is their will that will always be done. So is there a difference between Democrats and Republicans? Sure. The Democrats say one thing and then do another-quietly holding hands behind the scenes with the bastards who make this world a meaner place. The Republicans just come right out and give the bastards a corner office in the West Wing. That's the difference." (Michael Moore in his book "Stupid White Men")

#221: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:40 am
    —
Everyone, keep the convo civil just as it was up until page 4. If you can't say it in person don't bother typing it. This post is just one example.

Insults or baiting are not required to get a point across.[/quote]

Point taken.

#222: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:03 am
    —
It doesn't look like Trump wants war but create a better understanding between countries like China, Russia etc. No need of a reset.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Early days yet though but it's a good start.

#223: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:09 pm
    —
I was disappointed at Jon Stewarts retirement. He was very good at showing the irony and hypocrisy of politics. He retired just as Trump was entering. He was not over the top like The Colbert Report or Samantha Bee. One thing I believe John Oliver said regarding his own show was that its "comedy first." That probably goes for all shows. They can take things out of context, cherry pick or make up things, its comedy first. I wonder if Jon Stewart could he have swayed the election? He did have a large viewer base.

#224: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:59 pm
    —
Mooxe - That's is possible. I think if Sanders vs Clinton was conducted cleanly where Sanders actually had a chance and lost to Clinton. Maybe some more voters may not have been pushed away from the Democrats. The fact that to some it appeared that the Democrat Party itself had already decided behind the scenes wasn't liked by many.The Democrats Campaign in it's self appeared to me to be one of several influences pushing voters to the Trump camp (just like the leaks, her history etc).

#225: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:01 am
    —
The " Election Year Purge " has begun and it needed to happen - https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Hillary losing it big time - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3935800/Days-losing-election-Hillary-Bill-Clinton-sceaming-match-blame-flagging-campaign-ex-president-angry-threw-phone-roof-Arkansas-penthouse.html

#226: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: MajorFrank PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:42 pm
    —
I've always found it quite annoying how the US president is in a way 'the president of the world'. My country already has a president, and we are also part of EU and EMU and there we have another high level leader, Juncker. So now we should be worried because in a separate economic zone there might be bad leader? IMHO I hope that the American citizens prevail, I've met many Americans and the average people are very nice folks. However it's up to the American people to fix this Trump-problem.

Modern day Democratic party isn't necessarily that different from Republicans, they are both big money parties with big money donor money in their pockets. So I don't think Hillary Clinton would have been that much better. However Trump is a big unknown and has so far only created chaos in the world's economic markets and made many negative statements about various ethnicities, women, disabled, etc.

#227: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:15 pm
    —
Yes you are spot on.  Now we have the Rise of the War Hawk party again.  Counting down the days until the next war.  At least they don't seem stupid enough to get into a fight with Russia.  Now Trump is rumored to appoint Ted Cruz as the Attorney General, the biggest Partisan in the entire party.

#228: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:53 am
    —
Modern day Democratic party isn't necessarily that different from Republicans, they are both big money parties with big money donor money in their pockets. So I don't think Hillary Clinton would have been that much better. However Trump is a big unknown and has so far only created chaos in the world's economic markets and made many negative statements about various ethnicities, women, disabled, etc.[/quote]


The difference between Trump and others like Obama, Clinton's, Bush Snr and Jnr. Trump says what has thinks ( non PC ) and really a political novice. The others are all career politicians and really let slip their trues thoughts. Right down to speeches written for them, interviews are all preordained with questions given to them pre-interview and little off the cuff. These guys are managed and their spin doctors feed the public the same that mainstream media spouts.

History shows a record and that of Clinton's is really a horror show while Trump we are yet to see. Although he is making the right noises - purging the Repub's of opposition to him and International Diplomacy to most.

#229: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 pm
    —
really - rarely = typo

#230: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:02 pm
    —
Looks like a recount in Wisconsin is underway soon. Guaranteed the count will at least be different than the first count.  Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan were all in the 2% range. If the recount confirms Trump it will help quash some of the future conspiracy theories. If the Wisconsin count shows Clinton winning, prepare for the storm.

Michigan
T 2,279,805
C 2,268,193
0.5% difference (11,612)

Pennsylvania
T 2,912,941
C 2,844,705
2.3% Difference (68,236)

Wisconsin
T 1,409,467
C 1,382,210
1.9% Difference (27,257)

New Hampshire
T 348,521
C 345,789
0.78% Difference (2732)

Minnesota, Nevada and Florida all within 2.5 to 3%.

Some states have vote recount measures in place. Enacted if the difference meets a certain percentage.

#231: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mick_xe5 PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:57 pm
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
If the recount confirms Trump it will help quash some of the future conspiracy theories.
Our newly elected Tweeter-in-Chief is now claiming he actually won the popular vote if 3 million "illegal" votes hadnt been counted. The swamp is only going to get swampier when the Oval Office becomes the source of future conspiracy theories.

#232: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:14 pm
    —
mick_xe5 wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
If the recount confirms Trump it will help quash some of the future conspiracy theories.
Our newly elected Tweeter-in-Chief is now claiming he actually won the popular vote if 3 million "illegal" votes hadnt been counted. The swamp is only going to get swampier when the Oval Office becomes the source of future conspiracy theories.


They aren't the only ones with conspiracy tales. Mainstream media were and are still full of them without a single thread of evidence. How is this reporting the facts - https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html

#233: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:27 pm
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
mick_xe5 wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
If the recount confirms Trump it will help quash some of the future conspiracy theories.
Our newly elected Tweeter-in-Chief is now claiming he actually won the popular vote if 3 million "illegal" votes hadnt been counted. The swamp is only going to get swampier when the Oval Office becomes the source of future conspiracy theories.


They aren't the only ones with conspiracy tales. Mainstream media were and are still full of them without a single thread of evidence. How is this reporting the facts - https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html  



"The researchers used Internet analytics tools to trace the origins of particular tweets and mapped the connections among social-media accounts that consistently delivered synchronized messages. Identifying website codes sometimes revealed common ownership. In other cases, exact phrases or sentences were echoed by sites and social-media accounts in rapid succession, signaling membership in connected networks controlled by a single entity."


They haven't presented any evidence, only mentioned the technique internet firms may have used. Things like this are easily provable because of IP addresses and logs. The truth about this theory is definitely out there, its either in the logs or it isn't. Just to give you an idea, with Google Analytics you can watch in real time what a single person is doing on a website. Besides an IP address you can identify a person from Windows version, screen resolution, browser version, website habits. Basically you can be identified by anything you do on a computer broken down into 100 different acts your aren't even consciously aware of. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Without the organization evidence.... orders/instructions/pay records all we have are the logs.

I wonder how they would even present their evidence that's consumable for the general public.

Personally, I don't need any evidence to believe the internet is being used this way haha. The internet used to be about discovery, learning, fun.... now its about monetization, influence and control.

#234: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mick_xe5 PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:15 pm
    —
It doesnt take a quantum leap of faith to connect the Russian DNC hack/Wikileaks dump to a broader disinformation campaign via social media. Were the shoe on the other foot, the CIA would have (and has) operated similarly. Far less plausible that 3 million illegal votes were cast though it is rather a convenient number to allege a Trump plurality.

#235: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:03 am
    —
They haven't presented any evidence, only mentioned the technique internet firms may have used. Things like this are easily provable because of IP addresses and logs. The truth about this theory is definitely out there, its either in the logs or it isn't. Just to give you an idea, with Google Analytics you can watch in real time what a single person is doing on a website. Besides an IP address you can identify a person from Windows version, screen resolution, browser version, website habits. Basically you can be identified by anything you do on a computer broken down into 100 different acts your aren't even consciously aware of. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

They haven't reported any evidence because it simply doesn't exist. They ( Govt sources ) have had evidence of WMD's yet we all no that was a lie as this is. Remember the Nth Korean hackers - turned out to be an inside job. Hardly mentioned the truth in the media over that and still some today believe Nth Korea were the hackers. It's called deflection - taking the real story out of the spot light and allocating blame to others. I do see that nothing reported through Wikileaks during the election once again has been discredited. But the leak becomes the issue and not the truth.

If anyone had evidence we would all known about it yesterday.

#236: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:59 am
    —
The evidence of propaganda/fake news/trolling exists and can be traced to Russian sources. But I guess its not really evidence, its research. In your context Sod I think you mean evidence in a court of law. Whether it was a conspiracy led by the Russian government remains to be proven. This is not something that can ever be proven without a doubt. The court of law for this type of thing is public opinion. There were probably multiple countries and organizations doing this. Were Russians doing it in some form, most definitely.

Was there motive? Yes.
Was there means? Yes
Did it happen? Yes

I am almost surprised you need evidence to believe it. I would need evidence not to believe it. And I am not just saying Russia did it. The US was doing it to themselves! To not have a concerted effort online trying to discredit your opponent and misinform their supporters would be not using the best tool for victory ever created.

#237: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:24 am
    —
I am almost surprised you need evidence to believe it. I would need evidence not to believe it. And I am not just saying Russia did it. The US was doing it to themselves! To not have a concerted effort online trying to discredit your opponent and misinform their supporters would be not using the best tool for victory ever created.[/quote]

The clip I put on here only involved where Clinton, the DNC, the media and others all referred to the Russians. To date speculation doesn't count as evidence in any other country that I am aware of. The FBI said their is no evidence so once again where is it. Just saying something doesn't make it correct or factual lucky - Assad use of sarin gas is another example of media shooting from the lip.

A possible leak was a guy called Seth Rich. Only speculation as he is now dead. He was the DNC leak. Wikileaks offered $20,000 for info as to his death. Plolice say he was a victim of a robbery. However he still had his wallet, cellphone and watch. It appeared he was only robbed of his life. Rich worked for the DNC.

#238: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Schmal_Turm PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:44 am
    —
"Plolice say he was a victim of a robbery. However he still had his wallet, cellphone and watch. It appeared he was only robbed of his life. Rich worked for the DNC."

Very observant, sod. Seth Rich may have made the worst decision of his life by working for the DNC an by extension, Hillary Clinton. I read the book by one of Bill Clinton's longest affairs at 30 years, Dolly Kyle. In her book Hillary, the Other Woman, she mentions that when things got public about her time with Bill during his time as President her sister and brother, who were working for Bill, came to her and told her to basically lay low or they would have to destroy her. Those were the words she used. I am assuming they meant her reputation. But the interesting thing is that even though she said many of the Clinton murders you can find online were utterly ridiculous she did not discount all of them. She knew that Bill and Hillary can be very ruthless to to get what they want.

#239: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:12 am
    —


All the Clinton murders in detail. Its from a website called hillaryclinton411.com and posted at whatreallyhappened.com.


http://www.snopes.com/seth-conrad-rich/

Snopes spins a tale that he was murdered in a bad neighborhood, a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

#240: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mattymattcarmichaelLocation: United States PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:11 am
    —
The big switch? The big lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI46nRfIFyA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K5JxFXus1Y

Carol Swain is a black professor who like myself also was rasied democrat. She picked up some of the same history books (well before I did) and educated herself, and has become an authority on the subject.


http://www.redbox.com/movies/hillarys-america-the-secret-history-of-the-democratic-party
 
https://www.amazon.com/Hillarys-America-Secret-History-Democratic/dp/1621573478/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1480478527&sr=1-1&keywords=hillary%27s+america

#241: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:18 am
    —
If all you Right-Wing fans are eager to bring up all these 20 year old conspiracy theories from Breitbart and Alex Jones...then what about the 4000 Americans that sacrificed their lives in Iraq based on WMD lies?  At least 30,000 Iraqi civilians died.  Dick Cheney and friends make boatloads of $ peddling a bullshIt story of lies.  And gets away with it?  I love how everyone wants to talk about Clinton going to jail for emails...yet conveniently they forget about the pack of lies peddled by the Republican War Hawks.  If anyone should go to jail it should be them.  And how many trillions of $ are added to the debt from a war based on lies?  Nobody even wants to go there.  The Iraq war has no end in sight either.  Even Donald Trump said it was bad idea.  So the Republicans get a free pass for the worst blunder in U.S. history and the biggest blatant lie?

#242: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:27 pm
    —
The 60 Minutes Deception (full length, official documentary) How Clinton affects the media - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQTj53xN4TU

A bad luck run for people working for the Clinton's - still it's not evidence just coincidence - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Xl9Nb_TU0

Although this one is about Ukraine. In the near future more will come out of Hillary's connection to the US figures mentioned - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9hOl8TuBUM

IS possible little helper - John McCain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vItuKKuz_7Y

These are the guys Trump needs to go for.



Non US - Stealing a Nation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zhGvId4fcc

#243: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:38 pm
    —
The John McCain clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipd6xvoyzsM

- Shows IS leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi. This clip which was originally captured by Reuters journalist at a training camp in Saudi A. They also ran a story outlining how ISIS as it was called were meant to oust Assad Govt. They went rogue and found easier pickings in Iraq as well as Syria. Reuters refused to pull their article to this day and back it 100%. - never sued. Why the denials.

#244: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:43 pm
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
If all you Right-Wing fans are eager to bring up all these 20 year old conspiracy theories from Breitbart and Alex Jones...then what about the 4000 Americans that sacrificed their lives in Iraq based on WMD lies?  At least 30,000 Iraqi civilians died.  Dick Cheney and friends make boatloads of $ peddling a bullshIt story of lies.  And gets away with it?  I love how everyone wants to talk about Clinton going to jail for emails...yet conveniently they forget about the pack of lies peddled by the Republican War Hawks.  If anyone should go to jail it should be them.  And how many trillions of $ are added to the debt from a war based on lies?  Nobody even wants to go there.  The Iraq war has no end in sight either.  Even Donald Trump said it was bad idea.  So the Republicans get a free pass for the worst blunder in U.S. history and the biggest blatant lie?


You are right DJ. No one should be exempt. Sadly til these US elections the Repubs and Democrats were the two sides of the same coin. Bush donating millions to Clinton Campaign through Carlyle Group etc. Senior Repub's never backing Trump and going out of their to stop him. Even the Brit's need to be investigated for their roll in Iraq, Libya, Syria. as do France, Italy, Germany and others.

#245: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: WilliamTheSilent PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:39 pm
    —
I lived on 2 sides of the Pond: 12 years in USA. I'm back in NL since 2010 again.
I think it's great what is happening. Many people at my work in NL also think it's good.

Why? They are tired of politicians that do exactly the opposite of what the majority of people want.

Trump is very weird in his behavior but he is not an idiot. See through his outer behavior. He is collecting people around him with talent and proven record tp get the job done. No ideologues, because it doesn't work. Things have to get better for all people.

I read a piece from Banner about capitalism. He says there is about 3 kinds: state capitalism (China, Russia), establishment or globalistic capitalism (the super rich get richer supported through influence in governments and creating trade rules that benefit them) and then there is the old capitalism were company owners invest in growth that benefits all people, communities and companies that take part.
That's the kind that made the town were I live great.

Frits Philips founded his little light bulb company in my city early 1900's. He did good and it grew to a company that gave jobs to one time 30.000 people in my city alone. He built schools, transportation, sport clubs, housing, gave scholar ships to ALL families that worked for Philips.
Philips is the last European company that does electronics and still is one of the best in the world

I believe this is the kind of capitalism that Trump believes in and he is collecting a diverse group of established thinkers, owners, etc to get this back in the US. Trying to stop the flight of companies out of the US.
His statement towards China is a clear sign that he is going to do that: call China what they really are and end the power that earn their money by benefitting from China's fraud, like Zuckenberg who wants to help China indoctrinate their people through Facebook. Disgusting.
And Hillary was in for it, together with the other media moguls from Twitter and Google. Very dangerous.

They want to determine what we can read and say and make us believe what they want.

Give me Trump. I give him a chance.

#246: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: WilliamTheSilent PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:45 pm
    —
NL = the Netherlands

#247: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: WilliamTheSilent PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:00 pm
    —
Btw out of Philips came 5 engineers in the 1980's. They borrowed 5 million and started a company that makes machines that print computer chips: steppers en scanners.
This company is called ASML and is now the biggest provider of machines that print computer chips in the world. It's value has increased 1000x.
Still operating right next to the town where Philips was founded: Veldhoven next to Eindhoven (the Netherlands) where Philips was founded.

More then 100.000 people have a job here because of them. That's the capitalism that I like.
They could have moved to S.Korea or China. But they didn't because they understand what Mister Philips has done.

#248: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Caylin46 PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:51 pm
    —
If you have a strange feeling you are being spied, perhaps, your suspicions are not groundless, this source proves that now there are numerous ways to survey any person http://bigessaywriter.com/blog/paranoia-can-be-real-10-ways-technologies-are-spying-on-you

#249: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:55 pm
    —
There's major signs of change coming. The Carrier deal he made probably isn't the capitalism you like. Give tax cuts to one company in a state your VP-elect is still Governor of.

Usually you base your trust in a person from their history. Especially true for politics as they are public figures. Lacking a political background means there's no history to base your trust on, so you use his business history, hence, give him a chance.

You say he's surrounding himself with people without ideologues. The reason Americans are angry is partly to blame on this, the GOP has been very uncompromising in the last eight years. Trump is surrounded by these people.

Whether or not his change will be good remains to be seen. Its a big gamble.

#250: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:28 am
    —
Lol, Donald Trump is going to usher in a era of Scandinavian style of Democracy and capitalism. Dont think so mate.

Nothing about this is really looking good. A week after the win i wasn't sure how but its going to be. Now its more clear than ever that its going to be terrible.
Everything bad about America is magnified ten fold with this new administration.

The closest thing we can try and compare this too is Ronald Reagan. (Celebrity, stupid, harmful?damage? terror). The only difference is Reagan had a history of politics and had a clear ideology.
Trump has neither and he is clearly just winging it.
Sure, he has a little bit of intelligence. Cunning.. But the guy is in other ways very simple and must be stupid. If not, it cant be denied the guy has absolutely no morals what so ever.

You guys are fooling your self if you think this guy is going address some of Americas problems.  He is politically illiterate. He is a businessman (Scum).
But first and foremost he is a reality TV star.

He will be loyal to the following:
Big business.
Evangelical Christians
Oil,coal
Wealthy elite
Corporate conglomerates
The military
Republicans
Donors
Washington insiders
Mike Pence and all the people around him showing him the ropes. Neocons/neolibs

If you think anyone of these things would be beneficial (As so many people consciously or subconsciously DO) then your being a optimistic fool.
Their is every reason to believe this is going to be a terrible corrupt backwards administration. The people who he has assigned to governmental positions are appalling.  

You are fucked.

You had a chance to assign a experienced, progressive, honest, popular, democrat (Former independent) who was polling better than Clinton, whos presidential campaign was unprecedented and set records in many respects... But it was fucked. Fucked by the people. The democrats. The media especially...  

I will just mention that the American president is often under control by forces that i dont care to go into right now.
Jimmy Carter (Very moral, pushed for radical nuclear disarmament) probably committed serious war crimes. Crimes will be committed of regardless of who is president. Its just with Trump their is even more reason to be concerned.

His administration is fulled with (For example) people who want to go to war with Iran. I mean, are you just stupid? War with Iran would clearly be a complete disaster.
The Iranian revolution was justified and a US attack would be uncalled for and illegal. Their are a lot of psychopaths and neo fascist in America.
Im sorry, but its true. I have seen the interview with them. We are so used to listening to things from our perspective that we dont stop and realize that they are actually evil fascist psychopaths.

#251: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:46 am
    —
Carrier "deal" is a complete bait and switch.  It is corporate welfare and just an excuse to place more of the tax burden on the working class.  Carrier gets at least $700 million in tax breaks or what I would call corporate welfare.  Yea I don't think so.  Trump is the ultimate con-artist and master of bait and switch.  He is said to have changed his political positions over 100 times during the campaign.

Here is a courageous Republican.  Whom had the guts to confront his own party.  He is one of our Electors whom will use his Constitutional authority to reject the Trump vote.  Here is his Opinion Editorial featured in the NY Times.  Christopher Suprun is his name.  He was spot on about conflict of interests.  Taking Sales calls for his family business while claiming meetings while double-dipping claiming meetings are for political reasons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/why-i-will-not-cast-my-electoral-vote-for-donald-trump.html?_r=0
 
"...Hamilton also reminded us that a president cannot be a demagogue. Mr. Trump urged violence against protesters at his rallies during the campaign. He speaks of retribution against his critics.

..Gen. Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump’s pick for national security adviser, has his own checkered past about rules. He installed a secret internet connection in his Pentagon office despite rules to the contrary. Sound familiar?

Finally, Mr. Trump does not understand that the Constitution expressly forbids a president to receive payments or gifts from foreign governments. We have reports that Mr. Trump’s organization has business dealings in Argentina, Bahrain, Taiwan and elsewhere. Mr. Trump could be impeached in his first year given his dismissive responses to financial conflicts of interest. He has played fast and loose with the law for years. He may have violated the Cuban embargo, and there are reports of improprieties involving his foundation and actions he took against minority tenants in New York. Mr. Trump still seems to think that pattern of behavior can continue.


And he lied about Boeing.  General Flynn and his son also profusely lied about sick story about Clinton running a sex slave ring from underground bunker below a Pizza store.  You can't make this stuff up.

#252: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: WilliamTheSilent PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:38 pm
    —
mooxe wrote (View Post):
There's major signs of change coming. The Carrier deal he made probably isn't the capitalism you like. Give tax cuts to one company in a state your VP-elect is still Governor of.

Usually you base your trust in a person from their history. Especially true for politics as they are public figures. Lacking a political background means there's no history to base your trust on, so you use his business history, hence, give him a chance.

You say he's surrounding himself with people without ideologues. The reason Americans are angry is partly to blame on this, the GOP has been very uncompromising in the last eight years. Trump is surrounded by these people.

Whether or not his change will be good remains to be seen. Its a big gamble.

Of course it's a gamble. Sometimes people have good intentions but the powers that surround them do not allow them to bring change. Or everybody gets fooled. But I see positive things and I want to give it a chance. Trump is promising things I want to see changed. Hillary says whatever will get her elected. It's not about the people for her, but about herself and her special interest friends.
Trump still has to make friends it seems.

But for me it was clear that the kind of politics that Clinton was going to bring were not going to make it better. It was going to be establishment enrichment over the back of small bisiness and worker again. Obama already raked up enormous debt by immens spending on the credit card of the people. National debt ballooned from 11 trillion to 20 trillion. I remember the criticism Bush got about his war spending. This is more then double, but no one complains.
Foreign policy totally screwed up with pacifistic bow down to the tyrants of this earth policy. Withdrawing troops from Iraq caused Isis. Nuclear gifts to Iran endangered world peace.
This has to change. Diplomacy from a position of strength is needed. No bow downs. Putin, Iran and China were walking all over Obama.

About fake news: I remember the video that caused the attack on the US embassy in Libya: fake news strait from the White House right before the elections. Do we here about that in the debate?

I give Trump a try even though I cannot vote in the US (my wife can).

#253: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:39 am
    —
Trump's pull back on Foreign policy and stopping Regime change around the world can only be good for everyone. Also looking to protect the US economy with the likes of Carrier can only be good. Companies only go overseas to make more money not because they are in hardship. He has a massive fight ahead though. Lobby groups who have sponsored Establishment Politicians of the likes of Clinton's, Obama and Bush's ( or even their own companies - Carlyle Group ) etc - https://www.sipri.org/media/press-release/2016/global-arms-industry-usa-remains-dominant
 
Foreign Debt of $20,000,000,000,000 and 104.17% of GDP will be the real task and challenge for anyone. How anyone could think Obama and Clinton have been successful Politicians is beyond the realms of reality. Obama first became President the FD was just over $10 Trillion.

#254: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:43 am
    —
Mind-boggling ignorance.  When Bush became President the USA has a budget surplus.  USA has spent over $6 Trillion in Mid-East wars that were never paid for.  Trump has appointed a bunch of Elitist billionaires, millionaire and 3 Generals.  USA is suppose to be a civilian-controlled democracy.  He is turning it into a Fascist State.  Attacking his critics daily on Twitter.  Attacking the First Amendment.  Attacking the Press.  Spreading lies and misinformation.  ExxonMobil CEO whom is personal friends with Vladimir Putin is being interviewed for Secretary of State.  He has dealt with Putin for years and trying to close a $500B deal for Russian oil before the Crimean invasion.  It is against the Constitution to accept gifts from Foreign Leaders.  This is going to be the most corrupt US Government in history.  Theodore Roosevelt fought against the big Oil Monopoly.  Now 100 years later we are being ran by their people.   You think these people are NOT the establishment?  Trump said Obama founded ISIS and is not a Citizenship with fake birth certificate.  Now he is consulting with Obama for advice?  NUTS

#255: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:42 pm
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
Mind-boggling ignorance.  When Bush became President the USA has a budget surplus.  USA has spent over $6 Trillion in Mid-East wars that were never paid for.  Trump has appointed a bunch of Elitist billionaires, millionaire and 3 Generals.  USA is suppose to be a civilian-controlled democracy.  He is turning it into a Fascist State.  Attacking his critics daily on Twitter.  Attacking the First Amendment.  Attacking the Press.  Spreading lies and misinformation.  ExxonMobil CEO whom is personal friends with Vladimir Putin is being interviewed for Secretary of State.  He has dealt with Putin for years and trying to close a $500B deal for Russian oil before the Crimean invasion.  It is against the Constitution to accept gifts from Foreign Leaders.  This is going to be the most corrupt US Government in history.  Theodore Roosevelt fought against the big Oil Monopoly.  Now 100 years later we are being ran by their people.   You think these people are NOT the establishment?  Trump said Obama founded ISIS and is not a Citizenship with fake birth certificate.  Now he is consulting with Obama for advice?  NUTS


You might want to read my statement again when you are less emotional. Bush family politicians are mentioned as Establishment nothing to do with the foreign debt. the current Govt isn't military run, that's scaremongering. Who past Govt's have been owned by " Big Business ". That's one reason for for Arms Industry backing for Clinton and Obama's Foreign Policy. War is money even if you are losing them and even if you are selling to all sides even better. Your media needs to be attacked after all it's failings from Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, US Election etc.

What about the Clinton Fraudation being paid by the Saudi's - donation and more http://www.huffingtonpost.com/medea-benjamin/hillary-clinton-the-podes_b_11779826.html
 
I guess that's all fine and dandy, it was a donation and to the foundation - yeah right. You go on about big oil money and who do you think has been propping up the Clinton's through the Foundation - oil, mineral and gun companies. Obama was around when these pics were taken - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipd6xvoyzsM

The Russians aren't taking over, you are giving in to little better than Corporate Propaganda. Trump is receiving a " handover ", which is normal practice in any business.

#256: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: WilliamTheSilent PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:59 pm
    —
dj wrote (View Post):
Mind-boggling ignorance.  When Bush became President the USA has a budget surplus.  USA has spent over $6 Trillion in Mid-East wars that were never paid for.  Trump has appointed a bunch of Elitist billionaires, millionaire and 3 Generals.  USA is suppose to be a civilian-controlled democracy.  He is turning it into a Fascist State.  Attacking his critics daily on Twitter.  Attacking the First Amendment.  Attacking the Press.  Spreading lies and misinformation.  ExxonMobil CEO whom is personal friends with Vladimir Putin is being interviewed for Secretary of State.  He has dealt with Putin for years and trying to close a $500B deal for Russian oil before the Crimean invasion.  It is against the Constitution to accept gifts from Foreign Leaders.  This is going to be the most corrupt US Government in history.  Theodore Roosevelt fought against the big Oil Monopoly.  Now 100 years later we are being ran by their people.   You think these people are NOT the establishment?  Trump said Obama founded ISIS and is not a Citizenship with fake birth certificate.  Now he is consulting with Obama for advice?  NUTS

Trump is not appointing establishment. He is hiring people with great talent that have worked and became rich in that world. To use their skills to bring back the US to the greatness where it once was. The great economic and military power that once brought prosperity and world peace for a long time.
He doesn't hire ideological people, but people who know how to get things done in a PRACTICAL way.

For sure Trump is not establishment and like Kissinger said: "Trump has no baggage". So his idea's are not rooted in the establishment to benefit them.
Bush, Cliintons and Obama are for sure establishment.
So we go a new course with Trump.

Btw the Bush and Clinton family are friends. So don't see Bill and George as opposites. Bill had been waging contrversial war in Yoegoslavia and Middle East

Ofcourse we have to watch Trump and correct him if he takes a wrong path. But let him first try and not write him off before he starts.
To me the people who fight him show more insanity then people who support him.
Trump already has accomplished more positive change without being president then Obama during his 8 years. He even listens to his opponents. With respect.

And I'm not even an American. Living under the socialist yoke of heavy taxes and national debt to the all powerfull banks of the world.

I don't get it: leftist hate capitalism and banks but always borrow unlimited money from them to accomplish there progressive socialistic non-profitable goals. Raking up debt to "the people". Basicly making themselves totally dependent on banks. Giving the power to the banks. Mind boggeling.
Now you understand why Wallstreet and banks love socialist.
And subsidies are free money you do not have to invest/work for to get hold of it. Just have your lobbyists in place and it will come to you.

That has to change. In US and Europe.

#257: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:14 am
    —
Sod 98. You need to stop right there when it comes 2 Trump. I'm the kind of guy who was so anti Clinton, that I would tell Sanders supporters to "Vote Trump" just out of spite. But now that he has actually won the election, we should acknowledge him for what he is.
Its nice to defuse the tension at the Russian border because the new president "Likes Vladimir Putin". And Clinton would of undoubtedly been terrible. But this isn't a "My guy is not as bad as your guy competition.". A Trump presidency is a fucking disgrace, even if its not Hillary.
How did you go from being anti American to defending Trump? You mustn't realize OR be against the things that are so wrong with America.  

   

Anthony - " America's move away from Communism ". Surely you mean from Socialism. US has for the most been in a right leaning political sphere. Look no further than the Rockefellers, Prescott Bush, Herbert Walker etc whose families today were the backers of the Clinton campaign. Also their historical influence upon the US since pre WW2 ( Henry Ford awarded the Grand cross of the German Eagle etc ). Oddly Trump was a Democrat with no allegiances to the Establishment. So it is easy to see how Trump can be seen as more Left Wing. I guess he thought it easier to get to the White House through the Repub's nomination than the Clinton Dynasty maybe.

Americas move away from communism.
It was a reply to WilliamThessilent who mentioned the people wearing the colors of communism. Its a reference to how Americas political system has been shaped by its war with anything remotely communist-alleged. I'm telling him he needs to stop that stupid mentality. Because its ruined his country.  
As for your comments are KKK, this is ridiculous. I'm replying to the nut case, Williamthesilent. He is implying that the democrats are the racist party and afiliate them with the KKK. That is nonsense from a guy who was building a stupid case. The republicans are the most hostel towards minority's.
Refer to Williams original comments, and you will see the case he making.



Mike Pence has been described as boring but hardly does that make him a " nut case ". Founder of the KKK was a Democrat - Nathan Bedford Forrest. He was also a Confederate Officer during the Civil War not that that has any bearing on this.
YES! Mike Pence is a nut! And being boring has nothing to do with it. You mustn't care or know about how ridiculous and insane these evangelical republicans are. Anyone who doesn't view these extreme right wing southern Cristian Baptist republican looneys as a threat, doesn't have good judgement.

If Trump didn't run for the right reasons then what - strongly non Establishment. It's a dangerous job to ruffle the wrong people as JFK found out possibly, just for the power. The real danger being the media backed Clinton's seem to have some still believing she is a saint. Another fake story to go with the Bosnian snipers and the " jackup " interviews. Such a coincidence.
He is not going to be anti establishment. He is just going to run the fucking country like presidents do. This one is a republican. He has appointed a large corrupt group of bastard republicans.
Are you aware that he has appointed Ben Carson to Urban housing development? BEN CARSON!
BEN CARSON!
Do you know who this man is? Do you know how extreme and stupid the republican party is?
Trump has appointed WWEs Vince McMahons wife to cabinet! A comical example of his intuition and susceptibility's. Trumps a guy who has no idea what he is doing. This has happened before in Americas history. A president sitting down with no idea of what hes doing. Its happened 2 other times in Americas history. And the damage done to America and the world was horrific. Now its happening again.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that either Pence or Trump will be worse than their predecessors - Libya, Somalia, Syria etc. That's sheer speculation based on bias and fear. He has been democratically elected and until voted out or removed the rest is history or will be.

Who cares.
And of course we don't have a way of looking into the future to gather evidence. We can only look at what we have now. And it doesn't look good at all! The war on terror, drugs and crime follow a massive roll back under trump.
Again, i wanted to see the death of the democratic party! But it cant be denied that republicans are worse on every issue! Including war, military a intervention!

#258: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:53 am
    —
Btw, who do you think killed Kennedy?  Sod98?

Dj
Confederate States switched parties.  That was over 50 years ago.   Since that time the Republican party took them in with open arms and adopting a Southern Strategy which has kept the entire South firmly under their control ever since.
That's right. They use it as a voter bass to continue the extreme agendas about dismantling the nation and feeding it to the corporations and high finance.

The democrats are doing it too. But they are nowhere near as insane as the republicans. Again, Sod98, i cant overstate my hatred for the democrats. Any democrat supporter can get a punch in the face, okay. But the republican party and this president is not going to change the nation for the good in anyway. And William trying to imply the Dems are the "True" racist party is a pathetic and unrealistic revisionism. We know Lincoln was a republican they freed the blacks. But that doesn't mean the Republican party isnt by far the most hazardous towards blacks.


Mooxe
IMO.... The anti-establishment point is a cop out for everyone who was voting for him to remove the immigrants, build the wall, ban muslims etc. They were on board well before "drain the swamp" ever became a thing. Trump is establishment.

I think the racist vote was a huge factor. Americans just like stupid, crazy, bad people. The American people are a dangerous people.
Remember there are many reasons why Trump won! But the things you mentioned were a huge factor.

WilliamTheSilent
Trump is very weird in his behavior but he is not an idiot. See through his outer behavior. He is collecting people around him with talent and proven record tp get the job done. No ideologues, because it doesn't work. Things have to get better for all people.


Your just wrong. Of course the people he has appointed have ideology's. They are really fucked up ideology's.

WilliamTheSilent
. Trump is not appointing establishment. He is hiring people with great talent that have worked and became rich in that world. To use their skills to bring back the US to the greatness where it once was. The great economic and military power that once brought prosperity and world peace for a long time.
He doesn't hire ideological people, but people who know how to get things done in a PRACTICAL way.

For sure Trump is not establishment and like Kissinger said: "Trump has no baggage". So his idea's are not rooted in the establishment to benefit them.
Bush, Cliintons and Obama are for sure establishment.
So we go a new course with Trump.

Btw the Bush and Clinton family are friends. So don't see Bill and George as opposites. Bill had been waging contrversial war in Yoegoslavia and Middle East

Ofcourse we have to watch Trump and correct him if he takes a wrong path. But let him first try and not write him off before he starts.
To me the people who fight him show more insanity then people who support him.
Trump already has accomplished more positive change without being president then Obama during his 8 years. He even listens to his opponents. With respect.

And I'm not even an American. Living under the socialist yoke of heavy taxes and national debt to the all powerfull banks of the world.

I don't get it: leftist hate capitalism and banks but always borrow unlimited money from them to accomplish there progressive socialistic non-profitable goals. Raking up debt to "the people". Basicly making themselves totally dependent on banks. Giving the power to the banks. Mind boggeling.
Now you understand why Wallstreet and banks love socialist.
And subsidies are free money you do not have to invest/work for to get hold of it. Just have your lobbyists in place and it will come to you.

That has to change. In US and Europe.

Leftist don't like banks.

Americans are the most frightend people in the world. It has a history that goes way back. And like all animals, they are the most dangerous when they are scared.

#259: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:35 am
    —
Antony - I was never anti American. Was was and still am anti current US Foreign Policy and anti the so called free media ( mainstream media ). The first ( FP ) has been the greatest help to the rise of Terrorism around the world, destabilizing sovereign Govt's ( regime change ) and resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. This has happened while the likes of the Establishment Politicians of Bush's, Clinton's and Obama have been in power or controlled some power. A media that has continued to fail their public from the truth on no WMD's in Iraq, no sarin gas use by Assad in Syria, failing to mention the illegal invasion of Iraq, illegal bombings in Syria, the truth on the Ukraine, Clinton's payt's by the same guys who pay IS and Al Nusra wages - SaudI A etc. that's just a little part. To say the truth isn't anti particularly when the real anti Americans are those perpetrating these dirty deeds as Democracy and providing freedom........lol. Not to mention how Clinton can wipe hard drives and lose emails, connections to Libya, massive mistakes as SOS and that's accepted.

To criticize Trump as President. I think first he must at least be inaugurated, passed or been party to failed policies like his predecessor's, in this case increased national debt, created further enemies of the state. Til then anyone else who says otherwise is foolish and shows themselves out to be naive. Trump hasn't created the American issues but is an elected head of state and must be given the respect of time to prove otherwise . He could still very easily prove to be a failure. Clinton most definitely would have been as she wanted BAU on domestic and foreign policies.

It appears you still make the mistake of Repub and Democrat's differing policies. They are the two sides of the same coin. Trump isn't their boy yet. That's one of the reasons lots of Repub's sudden grew morals over Trump while ignoring Repub candidate failings and Clinton's. Lucky the US public to a degree saw through her 30 years of revenue gathering for the Clinton Family coffers and the Clinton Fraudation.

Check a little history to see how the Democrats passed bills and acts against blacks and minorities in the US. History is written by the victor. It doesn't mean that it will be correct. I can give many examples if you need them. What's the difference between a dumb leader and a unscrupulous leader - the presence of malice. What one do you think is worse.

The only thing I do agree with you this time on is that the US finds itself in massive debt, losing friends and creating many more enemies sadly. Just maybe something a leader like Trump could turn some of these around................maybe.

#260: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:24 pm
    —
Anthony - Who do I think killed JFK ? Lets go through the obvious choices.

1 Cuba under Fidel - What did they have to gain, nothing. Killing JFK would destroy one of their chances of legitimacy as a state.

2 USSR - Even less as the USSR had found someone they could negotiate with. Unlike what some say they killed him over the failings of the USSR during the Missile Crisis - flawed history.

3 Mafia - JFK's father had links to the mafia. The mafia were displeased with JFK over Cuba. The mafia lost mega millions in assets in Cuba due to the revolution - casinos, bordello's, hotels etc. JFK refused to back another " Bay of Pigs of which the mafia were heavily involved.

4 Cuban exiles - As above, JFK refused to back another " Bay of Pigs ". Removing JFK would provide hope for future chances.

5 CIA - Have worked with both the Mafia ( Sicily in WW2, Cuba - " Family Jewels ", Central and South America, Sth East Asia and even Afghanistan during the USSR time, the Cuban Exiles ( Cuba, Congo, Central and South America ).


Lee Harvey Oswald was meant to be a pro Castro Cuban sympathizer. A couple of issues with that. Oswald was given Russian language training in the marines - just before defecting to the Soviets - how many Marines back then got that training, Pro Castro Org worked out of the same building as Bannister in New Orleans ( anti Communist ) who recruited College students. This same building was surrounded by the likes of Naval Intel - the guys who trained operatives in languages like Russian. Bannister was also ex Naval Intel, CIA, FBI, the Secret Service. Rafael Cruz a Cuban American seen in pictures with Oswald at pro Castro meetings - CIA.

First the story of 1 shooter dispelled some years later as definitely at least 2 shooters. Many witnesses and the Zapruder film make a total nonsense of the original shambollock investigation. Lost or note noted interviews with witnesses and Oswald just add fuel to the fire. Then there is the vilification of Jim Garrison, the only person who really wanted to get to the truth. There is still far more parts of the puzzle.

CIA, Mafia and Cuban Exiles looks a great bet for me. They have a history together on many targets like Castro. What's yours Anthony.

#261: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:43 am
    —
You were never anti American? Well its bloody-well a good time to start. Because the country is a fucking hazardous mess.

Was was and still am anti current US Foreign Policy and anti the so called free media ( mainstream media )

Is that it?
Surely not, otherwise that would be a gross blind-site to a long list of problems. Your Anti Obama and media? Lol, there must be more problems than Obama and the media. Granted the media is a big one.

The first ( FP
Sorry, what is FP?

This has happened while the likes of the Establishment Politicians of Bush's, Clinton's and Obama have been in power or controlled some power. A media that has continued to fail their public from the truth on no WMD's in Iraq, no sarin gas use by Assad in Syria, failing to mention the illegal invasion of Iraq, illegal bombings in Syria, the truth on the Ukraine, Clinton's payt's by the same guys who pay IS and Al Nusra wages - SaudI A etc. that's just a little part. To say the truth isn't anti particularly when the real anti Americans are those perpetrating these dirty deeds as Democracy and providing freedom........lol. Not to mention how Clinton can wipe hard drives and lose emails, connections to Libya, massive mistakes as SOS and that's accepted.

No, you will find those people are self confessed believers in America exceptionalism and strong patriots.

To criticize Trump as President. I think first he must at least be inaugurated, passed or been party to failed policies like his predecessor's, in this case increased national debt, created further enemies of the state. Til then anyone else who says otherwise is foolish and shows themselves out to be naive. Trump hasn't created the American issues but is an elected head of state and must be given the respect of time to prove otherwise . He could still very easily prove to be a failure. Clinton most definitely would have been as she wanted BAU on domestic and foreign policies.

There is perfectly good reason and ways to asses him before he takes office. And its not looking to promising. There are alot of unknowns, a few good things, and alot of really bad things. And then there is well educated guesses. And its looking terrible.

Clinton was a well confirmed failure, no doubt... I agree with that.?But doesn't that step over your "He at least needs to be inaugurated" position.
But thats no excuse for defending Trump in my opinion.  

Can you admit this for me. The trump administrations appointment's are inline with what Mike Huckabee administration would be.
What are your thoughts on Mike Huckabee? Do ya like him?

Americans far right are a fucked up dangerous people. They are immensely terrified of many different things. They publicly and openly ponder if torture works! They talk about the need to strike terror and fear in the world. The unashamed imperialist.

Im not giving Trump the respect of time. He has had plenty of time. Many decades, all most half a century to prove him self and prove him self he has done! I was young in 2008, but anyone who was switched on was actually able to predict the how bad Obama was going to be on the day of his inauguration.
We were fooled, people who actually understand Americas problems were not!
The idea this guy (Trump) will or might or could be a good president is wrong!

It appears you still make the mistake of Repub and Democrat's differing policies. They are the two sides of the same coin. Trump isn't their boy yet. That's one of the reasons lots of Repub's sudden grew morals over Trump while ignoring Repub candidate failings and Clinton's. Lucky the US public to a degree saw through her 30 years of revenue gathering for the Clinton Family coffers and the Clinton Fraudation.
They voted for Trump for the same reason they voted Obama. He was running on a change platform.

As for the Democrats are the same republicans... Well.

YES.. and no.

I respect the frustration with the democrats and i want them dead for what they have done. And there are similarity's between them. But they are better on issue.
Lets start of with the greatest threat to humanity ever.
The republicans are unified with there consensus that its not real! This matters.  
The republicans social policy's are disgusting and destructive.
They are extremely nonsecular. Have major white nationalist tendencies, im sorry, but the democrats are better.

Stab Obama in the face. Hang the Clintons. Sure! But the party as a whole just isnt as bad.

The bipartisan consensus are terrible. (foreign policy, wall street, money, statuesque in regards to the 2 party system ). But the republicans are far worse.

Look at it this way. Its not that they are the same. Its that the democrats are republicans and the republicans are hardcore extreme republicans.
America has shifted so far to the right that any thing left wing is practicly dead in the water.

Trump will undoubtedly make America go from "Sitting and walking right" too "Jumping and sprinting right". So that they will be even further on the radical extreme right.  
And all the inevitable poverty, inequality, corporate power, greed, damage and reckless imperialism that follows with it.  

Ill just get it out in the open. I think right wingers are the enemy. They are scum! They are the enemy of humanity and the future.
And listen to your self. "I dont like the media, Americans having enemy's, national debt".
I think you have been listening to, too many right wing bandits.      
Clinton was right.
Bush was right.
Clinton is far right.
Obama was center. Right leaning.  
All of these administrations had a lot of veritable s and NeoCs and NeoLs in there ear.
And finally Trump who is extreme right. Not what America needs. Not what the world needs.

The only thing I do agree with you this time on is that the US finds itself in massive debt, losing friends and creating many more enemies sadly.
First off, i dont give a fuck about the debt. Its not a issue at the moment. And besides the military ( Except) the national debt is just a excuse to practice this right wing agenda of robbing the American people of a better life and services.
There are some very real issues with the national debt, but thats a thing in the future.

Your friend Donald J Reagan gave the ideological frame work that caused the debt... as well as Bush with his tax cuts and war.
Sorry but the national debt under Obama was due to the 2008 financial crisis's.

So what Trump going to do with national debt? Massive rich and corporate tax cuts and increase Americas military spending. Nice one!
How do reconcile that?

How do you reconcile Mitch Mconnell, Jeff sessions, Andrew Puzder and... uh.. Ben Carson? How do you do it?


Just maybe something a leader like Trump could turn some of these around................maybe.

What are your thoughts on Maybe not?
Maybe not is a good one with alot of evidence.

#262: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:49 am
    —
You were never anti American? Well its bloody-well a good time to start. Because the country is a fucking hazardous mess.

Was was and still am anti current US Foreign Policy and anti the so called free media ( mainstream media )

Is that it?
Surely not, otherwise that would be a gross blind-site to a long list of problems. Your Anti Obama and media? Lol, there must be more problems than Obama and the media. Granted the media is a big one.

The first ( FP
Sorry, what is FP?

This has happened while the likes of the Establishment Politicians of Bush's, Clinton's and Obama have been in power or controlled some power. A media that has continued to fail their public from the truth on no WMD's in Iraq, no sarin gas use by Assad in Syria, failing to mention the illegal invasion of Iraq, illegal bombings in Syria, the truth on the Ukraine, Clinton's payt's by the same guys who pay IS and Al Nusra wages - SaudI A etc. that's just a little part. To say the truth isn't anti particularly when the real anti Americans are those perpetrating these dirty deeds as Democracy and providing freedom........lol. Not to mention how Clinton can wipe hard drives and lose emails, connections to Libya, massive mistakes as SOS and that's accepted.

No, you will find those people are self confessed believers in America exceptionalism and strong patriots.

To criticize Trump as President. I think first he must at least be inaugurated, passed or been party to failed policies like his predecessor's, in this case increased national debt, created further enemies of the state. Til then anyone else who says otherwise is foolish and shows themselves out to be naive. Trump hasn't created the American issues but is an elected head of state and must be given the respect of time to prove otherwise . He could still very easily prove to be a failure. Clinton most definitely would have been as she wanted BAU on domestic and foreign policies.

There is perfectly good reason and ways to asses him before he takes office. And its not looking to promising. There are alot of unknowns, a few good things, and alot of really bad things. And then there is well educated guesses. And its looking terrible.

Clinton was a well confirmed failure, no doubt... I agree with that.?But doesn't that step over your "He at least needs to be inaugurated" position.
But thats no excuse for defending Trump in my opinion.  

Can you admit this for me. The trump administrations appointment's are inline with what Mike Huckabee administration would be.
What are your thoughts on Mike Huckabee? Do ya like him?

Americans far right are a fucked up dangerous people. They are immensely terrified of many different things. They publicly and openly ponder if torture works! They talk about the need to strike terror and fear in the world. The unashamed imperialist.

Im not giving Trump the respect of time. He has had plenty of time. Many decades, all most half a century to prove him self and prove him self he has done! I was young in 2008, but anyone who was switched on was actually able to predict the how bad Obama was going to be on the day of his inauguration.
We were fooled, people who actually understand Americas problems were not!
The idea this guy (Trump) will or might or could be a good president is wrong!

It appears you still make the mistake of Repub and Democrat's differing policies. They are the two sides of the same coin. Trump isn't their boy yet. That's one of the reasons lots of Repub's sudden grew morals over Trump while ignoring Repub candidate failings and Clinton's. Lucky the US public to a degree saw through her 30 years of revenue gathering for the Clinton Family coffers and the Clinton Fraudation.
They voted for Trump for the same reason they voted Obama. He was running on a change platform.

As for the Democrats are the same republicans... Well.

YES.. and no.

I respect the frustration with the democrats and i want them dead for what they have done. And there are similarity's between them. But they are better on issue.
Lets start of with the greatest threat to humanity ever.
The republicans are unified with there consensus that its not real! This matters.  
The republicans social policy's are disgusting and destructive.
They are extremely nonsecular. Have major white nationalist tendencies, im sorry, but the democrats are better.

Stab Obama in the face. Hang the Clintons. Sure! But the party as a whole just isnt as bad.

The bipartisan consensus are terrible. (foreign policy, wall street, money, statuesque in regards to the 2 party system ). But the republicans are far worse.

Look at it this way. Its not that they are the same. Its that the democrats are republicans and the republicans are hardcore extreme republicans.
America has shifted so far to the right that any thing left wing is practicly dead in the water.

Trump will undoubtedly make America go from "Sitting and walking right" too "Jumping and sprinting right". So that they will be even further on the radical extreme right.  
And all the inevitable poverty, inequality, corporate power, greed, damage and reckless imperialism that follows with it.  

Ill just get it out in the open. I think right wingers are the enemy. They are scum! They are the enemy of humanity and the future.
And listen to your self. "I dont like the media, Americans having enemy's, national debt".
I think you have been listening to, too many right wing bandits.      
Clinton was right.
Bush was right.
Clinton is far right.
Obama was center. Right leaning.  
All of these administrations had a lot of veritable s and NeoCs and NeoLs in there ear.
And finally Trump who is extreme right. Not what America needs. Not what the world needs.

The only thing I do agree with you this time on is that the US finds itself in massive debt, losing friends and creating many more enemies sadly.
First off, i dont give a fuck about the debt. Its not a issue at the moment. And besides the military ( Except) the national debt is just a excuse to practice this right wing agenda of robbing the American people of a better life and services.
There are some very real issues with the national debt, but thats a thing in the future.

Your friend Donald J Reagan gave the ideological frame work that caused the debt... as well as Bush with his tax cuts and war.
Sorry but the national debt under Obama was due to the 2008 financial crisis's.

So what Trump going to do with national debt? Massive rich and corporate tax cuts and increase Americas military spending. Nice one!
How do reconcile that?

How do you reconcile Mitch Mconnell, Jeff sessions, Andrew Puzder and... uh.. Ben Carson? How do you do it?


Just maybe something a leader like Trump could turn some of these around................maybe.

What are your thoughts on Maybe not?
Maybe not is a good one with alot of evidence.

#263: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: Antony_nz PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:26 am
    —
You were never anti American? Well its bloody-well a good time to start. Because the country is a fucking hazardous mess.

Was was and still am anti current US Foreign Policy and anti the so called free media ( mainstream media )

Is that it?
Surely not, otherwise that would be a gross blind-site to a long list of problems. Your Anti Obama and media? Lol, there must be more problems than Obama and the media. Granted the media is a big one.

The first ( FP
Sorry, what is FP?

This has happened while the likes of the Establishment Politicians of Bush's, Clinton's and Obama have been in power or controlled some power. A media that has continued to fail their public from the truth on no WMD's in Iraq, no sarin gas use by Assad in Syria, failing to mention the illegal invasion of Iraq, illegal bombings in Syria, the truth on the Ukraine, Clinton's payt's by the same guys who pay IS and Al Nusra wages - SaudI A etc. that's just a little part. To say the truth isn't anti particularly when the real anti Americans are those perpetrating these dirty deeds as Democracy and providing freedom........lol. Not to mention how Clinton can wipe hard drives and lose emails, connections to Libya, massive mistakes as SOS and that's accepted.

No, you will find those people are self confessed believers in America exceptionalism and strong patriots.

To criticize Trump as President. I think first he must at least be inaugurated, passed or been party to failed policies like his predecessor's, in this case increased national debt, created further enemies of the state. Til then anyone else who says otherwise is foolish and shows themselves out to be naive. Trump hasn't created the American issues but is an elected head of state and must be given the respect of time to prove otherwise . He could still very easily prove to be a failure. Clinton most definitely would have been as she wanted BAU on domestic and foreign policies.

There is perfectly good reason and ways to asses him before he takes office. And its not looking to promising. There are alot of unknowns, a few good things, and alot of really bad things. And then there is well educated guesses. And its looking terrible.

Clinton was a well confirmed failure, no doubt... I agree with that.?But doesn't that step over your "He at least needs to be inaugurated" position.
But thats no excuse for defending Trump in my opinion.  

Can you admit this for me. The trump administrations appointment's are inline with what Mike Huckabee administration would be.
What are your thoughts on Mike Huckabee? Do ya like him?

Americans far right are a fucked up dangerous people. They are immensely terrified of many different things. They publicly and openly ponder if torture works! They talk about the need to strike terror and fear in the world. The unashamed imperialist.

Im not giving Trump the respect of time. He has had plenty of time. Many decades, all most half a century to prove him self and prove him self he has done! I was young in 2008, but anyone who was switched on was actually able to predict the how bad Obama was going to be on the day of his inauguration.
We were fooled, people who actually understand Americas problems were not!
The idea this guy (Trump) will or might or could be a good president is wrong!

It appears you still make the mistake of Repub and Democrat's differing policies. They are the two sides of the same coin. Trump isn't their boy yet. That's one of the reasons lots of Repub's sudden grew morals over Trump while ignoring Repub candidate failings and Clinton's. Lucky the US public to a degree saw through her 30 years of revenue gathering for the Clinton Family coffers and the Clinton Fraudation.
They voted for Trump for the same reason they voted Obama. He was running on a change platform.

As for the Democrats are the same republicans... Well.

YES.. and no.

I respect the frustration with the democrats and i want them dead for what they have done. And there are similarity's between them. But they are better on issue.
Lets start of with the greatest threat to humanity ever.
The republicans are unified with there consensus that its not real! This matters.  
The republicans social policy's are disgusting and destructive.
They are extremely nonsecular. Have major white nationalist tendencies, im sorry, but the democrats are better.

Stab Obama in the face. Hang the Clintons. Sure! But the party as a whole just isnt as bad.

The bipartisan consensus are terrible. (foreign policy, wall street, money, statuesque in regards to the 2 party system ). But the republicans are far worse.

Look at it this way. Its not that they are the same. Its that the democrats are republicans and the republicans are hardcore extreme republicans.
America has shifted so far to the right that any thing left wing is practicly dead in the water.

Trump will undoubtedly make America go from "Sitting and walking right" too "Jumping and sprinting right". So that they will be even further on the radical extreme right.  
And all the inevitable poverty, inequality, corporate power, greed, damage and reckless imperialism that follows with it.  

Ill just get it out in the open. I think right wingers are the enemy. They are scum! They are the enemy of humanity and the future.
And listen to your self. "I dont like the media, Americans having enemy's, national debt".
I think you have been listening to, too many right wing bandits.      
Clinton was right.
Bush was right.
Clinton is far right.
Obama was center. Right leaning.  
All of these administrations had a lot of veritable s and NeoCs and NeoLs in there ear.
And finally Trump who is extreme right. Not what America needs. Not what the world needs.

The only thing I do agree with you this time on is that the US finds itself in massive debt, losing friends and creating many more enemies sadly.
First off, i dont give a fuck about the debt. Its not a issue at the moment. And besides the military ( Except) the national debt is just a excuse to practice this right wing agenda of robbing the American people of a better life and services.
There are some very real issues with the national debt, but thats a thing in the future.

Your friend Donald J Reagan gave the ideological frame work that caused the debt... as well as Bush with his tax cuts and war.
Sorry but the national debt under Obama was due to the 2008 financial crisis's.

So what Trump going to do with national debt? Massive rich and corporate tax cuts and increase Americas military spending. Nice one!
How do reconcile that?

How do you reconcile Mitch Mconnell, Jeff sessions, Andrew Puzder and... uh.. Ben Carson? How do you do it?


Just maybe something a leader like Trump could turn some of these around................maybe.

What are your thoughts on Maybe not?
Maybe not is a good one with alot of evidence.

#264: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:48 am
    —
Anthony a lot to respond to. FP - Foreign policy.

"America exceptionalism and strong patriots" is just playing to what some people need to hear ( some US citizens ). Politicians are great at feeding off weaknesses and patriotism is a big one for recruiting. Just look at old news clips from 911 to this this in action. Certainly not exclusive to the US - China, GB etc.

" The trump administrations appointment's are inline with what Mike Huckabee administration would be". Well I'm guessing somewhat here. But I would say Trump will reward those who have backed him in the elections. If I remember correctly 1/3 of all US voters were noted as Christians. So yes any Trump Administration will have Conservative Christian politicians and lots of them. Trump didn't one day decide to run for President. People of influence have persuaded him - Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani and the like. It does show to a degree the feeling about " draining the swamp " and that is started somewhere elsewhere.


"Stab Obama in the face. Hang the Clinton's. Sure! But the party as a whole just isn't as bad". Of course that is correct but unless you are willing to aid these Establishment Politicians you go no where in politics. It's always who you know not what you know. Example how the Clinton's have lasted so long without being prosecuted for their many shady dealings and acts. US politics is far right and further right again. Just like Chinese politics is Capitalist Communism and Conservative Communism all in the same party.

"First off, I don't give a fuck about the debt". Well you should as this drives the failed Foreign Policy in a indirect way. That said US with 20 trillion dollar debt - ( 1045of their GDP ) - that is shocking and can lead to extremism of actions. It's not beyond recovery but it would require cutbacks - military is always the biggest waste. Four thousands Military bases in the US and another thousands around the world. It's quality and not quantity. Security services - how many in the US ? GB is in a far worse position at 10 Trillion - 569% of GDP. How GB survives to keep racking up debt is a joke. I guess Trumps formula will be to produce - sell more than they spend like any business - trade their way out. Of which they are capable of. It also has to be "maybe" on Trump, as I can't predict the future any better than you can and time will tell. At least it's a chance of hope. Many years without a chance of change have gone before so it has to be good.

Facts aren't anti American ( FP ) it's just some have a hard time seeing what has happened to their country, media and leaders. It's understandable - 24 / 7 in your face rubbish with little alternatives does that to anyone. You still haven't given your JFK theory............front up.

#265: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:18 am
    —
Anthony - A couple of doco's you might like - Ukraine on Fire - Oliver Stone
                                                         - Coming War on China - John Pilger

#266: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:57 am
    —
Countdown to the most corrupt President in USA history?  

Numerous campaign promises already broken before he even begins.  Sec of State getting ready to sign another 1/2 Trillion $ Big Oil deal with Vladimir Putin.  No wonder Vladimir wanted Trump to win!

Drain the swamp by filing it back up with a bunch of Goldman Sachs executives, Billionaires and nepotism?  

News conference to explain Melania was really NOT an illegal immigrant for years?  He promised a news conference months ago never happened.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/02/weeks-after-pledging-answers-big-questions-about-melania-trumps-immigration-status-linger/?utm_term=.abdf7a963ca2
"...In early August, Trump pledged that his wife, Melania, a native of Slovenia, would hold a news conference explaining how she managed to navigate the onerous process of getting a green card. He made the pledge after a number of outlets raised questions about the timeline of her entry into the country."

New conference on December 15th he promised to explain his plan to resolve illegal conflict of interest issues prior to taking office.  It is against the Constitution for Presidents to take money from foreign governments.  Again he flaked out and lied.  There was no press conference on December 15th.  Conflicting his own statements and numerous tweets:

"Trump used his favorite method of communicating with the public -- Twitter -- to announce plans for a "major news conference" on Dec. 15 to discuss plans to leave the Trump Organization.
His adult children, whom he has said he will put in charge of the company, will be a part of the news conference.  Trump owns or has a position in more than 500 companies, according to a CNN analysis. That includes about 150 that have done business in at least 25 foreign countries, including Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.  There have been growing questions about the potential conflicts of interest posed by Trump's continued business interests and his role as president. A poll by CNN found that 6 in 10 Americans believe Trump is not doing enough to address conflicts of interest."

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/30/news/companies/donald-trump-conflicts-press-conference/index.html

#267: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:46 pm
    —
" Countdown to the most corrupt President in USA history " - guess work and scaremongering at best. Clinton signed off on a Russian mining deal in the US.........is she owned by Moscow too.
Billionaires running the country.....what's changed - Bush family oil wealth, Kerry China drug money, Clinton's Fraudation and " Pay to Play " etc.

Trump's use of Twitter is a direct result of a partisan MSM even to today. If they have chased Hillary half as much as they did trump they may have found out about the destroyed hard drives, lost emails, Benghazi / Libya - arms for Jihadists and the mountain of news worthy opportunities to chase. To quote CNN - Cartoon News Network is like asking WAPO or NYT to write a column on Assad's use of Sarin Gas..................lol.

MSM have been outed for what they are. A mouth piece for Corporate America to sell it's foreign policy to the US public with the former Govt doing their dirty work.

You might as well add how Trump backed the Russian's over the hacking. I see the report contained no evidence and only suppositions. Did you see the disclaimers on the accuracy of the report. It's a work of fiction for the scared and hapless.

Let Trump take a seat in the WH before placing him in the same light as Obama. He could still go the same way, but that is only guess work unlike Hillary's crooked past.

#268: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:48 pm
    —
A couple of Obama's broken promises in case you thought he was a saint.


   Obama abandoned his commitment to "unprecedented" transparency.
   Obama has failed on his promise to close GITMO.
   Obama failed to end the war in Iraq and finish the job in Afghanistan.
   Obama broke his promise to pursue a "tough, smart and principled national security strategy."
   Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on the middle-class.
   Obama failed to grow the middle-class and Americans' incomes.
   Obama broke his promise to allow Americans to keep their plans and lower costs under Obamacare.
   Obama failed to make immigration a top priority and pass comprehensive reform in his first year.
   Obama failed to "nail shut" the revolving door of lobbyists working in his administration.
   Obama broke his promise to bring both parties together to enact a bipartisan agenda.  

Enjoy

#269: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:17 pm
    —
sod98 wrote (View Post):
A couple of Obama's broken promises in case you thought he was a saint.


   Obama abandoned his commitment to "unprecedented" transparency.
   Obama has failed on his promise to close GITMO.
   Obama failed to end the war in Iraq and finish the job in Afghanistan.
   Obama broke his promise to pursue a "tough, smart and principled national security strategy."
   Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on the middle-class.
   Obama failed to grow the middle-class and Americans' incomes.
   Obama broke his promise to allow Americans to keep their plans and lower costs under Obamacare.
   Obama failed to make immigration a top priority and pass comprehensive reform in his first year.
   Obama failed to "nail shut" the revolving door of lobbyists working in his administration.
   Obama broke his promise to bring both parties together to enact a bipartisan agenda.  

Enjoy


Every president has a list of things they did not accomplish. Considering how the system works though, its not fair to just leave out the context. You copy and pasted this list from another website while at the same time saying MSM is partisan.

https://www.gop.com/the-top-10-broken-promises-of-the-obama-presidency/

#270: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:51 pm
    —
Quote:
If they have chased Hillary half as much as they did trump they may have found out about the destroyed hard drives, lost emails, Benghazi / Libya - arms for Jihadists and the mountain of news worthy opportunities to chase.


As far as I remember, Clinton was chased, chased to the very end of the campaign about emails. Chased years prior with multiple investigations in Benghazi. Threatened to be chased further. Are you implying you did not get the result you wanted?

Anyways, Clinton is done. Why compare to Trump any further.

#271: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:05 am
    —
Anyways, Clinton is done. Why compare to Trump any further.[/quote]

Totally agree all Presidents break promises and no president or leader can please everybody.

Clinton was chased but through social media. MSM bought into the idea that the info released through the likes of Wikileaks was illegal so wouldn't investigate. They did release watered down passages - hardly living up to delivering a balanced view while singing her praises. Possible exception Fox News but they were in favour of Trump.

#272: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:01 pm
    —
Another example of Fake News - http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/88315559/russia-has-compromising-and-salacious-information-on-donald-trump-cnn-reports
 
All third party Chinese whispers and no evidence. What happened to investigating an issue to gather evidence before publishing. Too much embedded journalists printing verbatim articles from those in power.

#273: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:22 pm
    —
Its fake news if CNN just totally fabricated everything. It doesn't sound like THEY fabricated everything.

Quote:
"The hotel was known to be under FSB (Russian secret service) control with microphones and concealed cameras in all the main rooms to record anything they wanted to."


From your link... oh dear.

For anyone who didn't read that article or are unfamiliar with this... The Russians are suspected of recording video/audio from a hotel in Moscow of Trump interacting with prostitutes. The information is apparently from a former MI-6 agent.

Plausible that Russians would hold back compromising information for later release? Definitely.

#274: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:04 pm
    —
Seems like an episode from the Twilight Zone.  You can't even make this stuff up.  Trump is a month late for his press conference to explain how he will weasel his way out of conflicts of interest and illegal conduct.  Nepotism is illegal.  Taking money from foreign governments is against the Constitution.

No wonder Trump loathes the intelligence community when they briefed him on his own conduct.  Alleged dossier has been compiled by Russian intelligence - absolutely Russia has all the leverage.

#275: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: dj PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:06 pm
    —
What about the Tax returns Sod?  Nobody can comment on exactly how many business holdings Trump has because he refuses to disclose his taxes.   No doubt it is because he zeros out and pays nothing in taxes with all his write-offs.

#276: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mick_xe5 PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:03 pm
    —
There never will be a 'presidential' pivot. Our Siberian Candidate will ensconce himself in the Oval Office next Monday in 5 alarm dumpster fire mode that no 3am tweets will ever extinguish. Nixon is cackling in his grave at the prospect of being demoted to second worst presidential felon.

#277: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:53 am
    —
Once again the proof is in the pudding - no pudding. The Russians are saying it's lies already. So where did this latest story come from.................. It has become obvious that MSM will print anything as there are no repercussions upon them once the truth is out - WMD's is a classic or even the Russian Govt hacking scandal that never happened.

#278: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mick_xe5 PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:59 am
    —
The US intelligence community isnt rushing to claim there is no 'pudding'. In fact it seems to be their consensus that there very possibly is a humongous $#!+ pudding in the offing. We'll get a better feel for this soon judging by how much speed and emphasis Trump employs to 'reorganize' the intel agencies. At a minimum this sets the stage for an epic shoot out between the traditional 'patriot' faction of the GOP (McCain, Graham, et al) and the newly empowered shape-shifters whose only true ideology is self-benefit. At a not so far-fetched maximum given Pence as fallback, we'll see impeachment hearings this year.

Comey is looking quite the partisan hack out of this. He resuscitates the (non-)issue of Clinton's emails at a critical moment but suffocates what, as Harry Reid correctly claimed, was 'bombshell' info concerning Trump until after the fact.

The swamp grows murkier by the day.

#279: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:51 am
    —
Too late - it was Fake News and always was going to be - Buzzfeed and John McCain.Sadly once again MSM won't apologize for the mistakes and or smear campaign. When will some people learn that MSM is outright propaganda. No investigative checks by journalists just verbatim printing of lies - WMD's and Russian hacking story again. McCain the guy who won't talk about his connections to Al Baghdadi

No pudding people, just egg on some peoples faces - MSM.


This makes sense - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4110700/PIERS-MORGAN-hookers-story-cheap-lazy-journalists-ran-fake-Trump-sleaze-urinate-presidency.html
 
Enjoy

#280: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mick_xe5 PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:23 pm
    —
It stands to reason that the Daily Mail is the only MSM outlet exempt from dishing 'outright propaganda'.

What distinguishes this story from the vast majority of fake news is how well it dovetails with known facts, chief among which are Trump's irrational refusals to publicly accept, before today, that Russia hacked (hijacked?) our election process. Toss in his ongoing Putin bromance, his NATO comments, discrediting the CIA, a SecState nominee with offshore Russian business ties, senior campaign staff with serious Russian connections, generally doubling down his pro-Russian stance since Nov. 8th... The Trump dossier Buzzfeed released has all the earmarks of plausibility, down to the point where "grab 'em by the pussy" and golden showers can be seen as flip sides of the same tarnished coin.

Even Trump's birtherism fits the profile of an agent intent on disrupting our democracy at Putin's behest. The cosmic irony lurking over the horizon is that the chief propagator of the spurious assertion Obama is a fake American may turn out to be the fakest American of all.

#281: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: sod98 PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:01 pm
    —
mick_xe5 wrote (View Post):
It stands to reason that the Daily Mail is the only MSM outlet exempt from dishing 'outright propaganda'.

What distinguishes this story from the vast majority of fake news is how well it dovetails with known facts, chief among which are Trump's irrational refusals to publicly accept, before today, that Russia hacked (hijacked?) our election process. Toss in his ongoing Putin bromance, his NATO comments, discrediting the CIA, a SecState nominee with offshore Russian business ties, senior campaign staff with serious Russian connections, generally doubling down his pro-Russian stance since Nov. 8th... The Trump dossier Buzzfeed released has all the earmarks of plausibility, down to the point where "grab 'em by the pussy" and golden showers can be seen as flip sides of the same tarnished coin.

Even Trump's birtherism fits the profile of an agent intent on disrupting our democracy at Putin's behest. The cosmic irony lurking over the horizon is that the chief propagator of the spurious assertion Obama is a fake American may turn out to be the fakest American of all.


The story falls apart on issues like Trumps Aid's travel arrangements to a country he could prove he hadn't been to - Passport. The same Aid's father was meant to own property and assets in Russia - someone else with the same name. No tie in. This story has been made by people with a few dollars to spare and no investigative skills and a history of mistakes. Maybe someone that doesn't like Trump - Cocaine Import Agency ( CIA ) - only a 2nd choice behind George Soro's. Keeping in mind it's only my speculation. People must be very scared and desperate of a Trump Presidency to go to these lengths. A bit like when Kennedy was in power - not that either Trump or Kennedy are anything alike.

Daily Mail as it's English but they to aren't exempt from printing rubbish.

#282: Re: US Elections 2016 Author: mooxe PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:07 pm
    —
ITS HAPPENING


Should we start an Election 2020 thread?



Close Combat Series -> The Mess


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