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#1: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:00 pm
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Well done UK. Also Cameron gone and the investigation in Tony Blair that could lead to a War Crimes trial to come. It's a start to rid them of some corruption. Then right their economy and stop unwanted immigrants to the UK.

#2: Re: UK to leave EU Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:14 pm
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Donald Trump agrees with you. - http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-36617669

I believe I have just coined the biggest put-down of the modern era!

#3: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:27 pm
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I believe I have just coined the biggest put-down of the modern era![/quote]

It could be worse if it had been Hillary. Trump says what a lot of people are thinking - stop immigration, stop crim's having guns etc. The issue is how he says it. After all with Brexit, the majority of the UK agree with him through their votes. It's not that big a put down. It was good though.

Tell me will England go 3 zip against the Wallabies on Saturday.

#4: Re: UK to leave EU Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:59 pm
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I didn't follow this. The lead up did not get any in depth news coverage here. Is it a good thing? Only time will tell. I do believe though that collaboration, sharing, common goals etc etc are good for any country. That's not to say the UK can't do that anymore but I would say this is definitely a strike against that.

#5: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:29 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

I didn't follow this. The lead up did not get any in depth news coverage here. Is it a good thing? Only time will tell. I do believe though that collaboration, sharing, common goals etc etc are good for any country. That's not to say the UK can't do that anymore but I would say this is definitely a strike against that.

Germany dominates the EU. This is just the start with other countries looking to split from the EU - France, Spain, Greece etc. However for the immediate, Scotland wants another Independence vote and Southern Ireland wants a referendum on a merger of Nth and Sth Ireland. Globalization is only good for the big and powerful countries.

#6: Re: UK to leave EU Author: DAK_Legion,

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:10 pm
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Close the front in Gibraltar;)I like it!

#7: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:59 am
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DAK_Legion wrote (View Post):

Close the front in Gibraltar;)I like it!

If Scotland leaves and Ireland Unite and leaves who gets the UK, who get Gibraltar ? Spain is asking for it back.

#8: Re: UK to leave EU Author: vobbnobb,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:04 pm
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How many years ago did they join?

#9: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:29 pm
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vobbnobb wrote (View Post):

How many years ago did they join?

1973 - 43 years ago.

#10: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:17 pm
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Did David Cameron actually resign? Me thinks not. He needs to be out no later than Monday.

Link

#11: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:16 pm
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[quote="Stwa";p="84576"]Did David Cameron actually resign? Me thinks not. He needs to be out no later than Monday.

He says he will stay on til October when the UK leaves the EU. However the EU have been saying they want the UK starting immediately. It will take some 2 years approximately if not longer to finalize everything. Effectively he is a caretaker Prime Minister til the Conservatives find a replacement or a snap election held.

#12: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:03 pm
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sod98 wrote (View Post):

He says he will stay on til October when the UK leaves the EU. However the EU have been saying they want the UK starting immediately. It will take some 2 years approximately if not longer to finalize everything. Effectively he is a caretaker Prime Minister til the Conservatives find a replacement or a snap election held.

Why would GB wait until October to leave the EU?

The negotiations with EU can take less than 2 years. 2 years is the max, not the min.

Is a caretaker PM really needed? The Tories could find another PM over the weekend.

#13: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:32 pm
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Why would GB wait until October to leave the EU?

The negotiations with EU can take less than 2 years. 2 years is the max, not the min.

Is a caretaker PM really needed? The Tories could find another PM over the weekend.[/quote]

That's what Cameron is suggesting. Not sure if others want or agree waiting that long. The 2 years to leave is because of the trade deals, borderless passports for EU members, Brits currently living and working in the EU, Brit EU jobs and the many other things. As you say 2 years is a very long time. The wheels of Govt move very slow. A caretaker is required after all Cameron ( Tory ) was pro EU and his main adversary was Boris Johnson a Tory also was pro Brexit. This has left the party split.

Now all the fun begins. So who voted to leave yesterday now wish they had voted to remain if you can believe it. they didn't realize the ramifications.

#14: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:38 pm
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Well, this short vid answers some questions.

Link

#15: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:53 pm
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Also looking at leaving in the future are France, Netherlands, Italy and Greece. Wanting to join Turkey and Ukraine. It's not looking good for the EU.

#16: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:16 pm
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sod98 wrote (View Post):

Also looking at leaving in the future are France, Netherlands, Italy and Greece. Wanting to join Turkey and Ukraine. It's not looking good for the EU.

Very interesting. We need comic relief. Bring in the Pope.

Link

#17: Re: UK to leave EU Author: dj,

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:19 am
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The U.K. is coming apart by the seams along with the E.U. The USA had many right-wing extremist states threatening to leave the Union also. Just like back in Civil War days.

Not understanding why out of the blue, not Scotland wants to vote on leaving U.K. Then I heard Northern Island is next so they can finally unite with the rest of Ireland. Not sure about the Protestants though how they can get along with the Catholics in Ireland if they try to unite.

#18: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:42 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

The U.K. is coming apart by the seams along with the E.U. The USA had many right-wing extremist states threatening to leave the Union also. Just like back in Civil War days.

Not understanding why out of the blue, not Scotland wants to vote on leaving U.K. Then I heard Northern Island is next so they can finally unite with the rest of Ireland. Not sure about the Protestants though how they can get along with the Catholics in Ireland if they try to unite.

Ireland is a powder keg sadly. before the Brexit there has been troubles from the past starting again - shooting etc.

#19: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:56 am
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The TPP could be next under Trump as he has been saying - once it's been finalized.

#20: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:20 am
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Now Scotland are trying to block the UK from leaving the EU. They want to stay in the EU. They also want another referendum on splitting from the UK. They bottled it last time in 2014. It's no longer Scotland the Brave.

#21: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:39 pm
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This whole affair is very important.

First of all, is it a good thing?
I dont know.

Im happy to see democracy lashing out here. I understand America does not have referendums.

This referendum is a sign that people are not happy. And it should be very alarming to the powers that be. (America,EU,Nato) and many other financial and political systems that run our world.
We live in a system when its almost a political given that you dont no e knowledge your mistakes as mistakes.

What we are seeing are alot of people are getting sick of the system and they are lashing out. When you keep ignoring people who are pissed off they will eventually kill you.
This should be viewed as a threat to all the democracy's that are ignoring the electorates voice, as they have done so for so long.

In the past people were protesting about civil rights or war. Things that could be adjusted. Now days people are protesting that the whole dam system is rotten.

Voter are lashing out with Brixot, Sanders, Trump, corbyn.

The first signs were the occupy wall street movement.
And im telling you now, its only going to get worst and worst. When you keep ignoring people who feel hard done by and dont give them a voice they will lash out.

What i like about this exit is the media actually starting to ask hard questions about the fundamental system. And is it working?
People are more attracted to the unknown than the status quo. And if you dont like sanders, trump, corbyn or you like many of the systems that run our world, then this should be alarming to you and the globalized world.

People votes are not just a racist vote, or a uneducated vote, they are giving the middle finger vote. And this will continue in a world when politicians are willing to say and do less and less to appease the electorate.
If brits cant have enough say in there own nation how can they have any say in the EU?

#22: Re: UK to leave EU Author: sod98,

Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:56 am
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Anthony NZ - Agreed.

#23: Re: UK to leave EU Author: ke_mechial,

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:09 am
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Anthony, Sod agreed.

What interesting to me was the petition thing. I checked the site, and had first thought that you enter your passport id or etc. to prove you are british. Nothing like that.

I am also curious about how the evolving technology will affect the public voting systems and public intervention to decisions made in the upcoming years.

I suppose the society will soon start discussing it.

#24: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:24 pm
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ke_mechial wrote (View Post):

Anthony, Sod agreed.

What interesting to me was the petition thing. I checked the site, and had first thought that you enter your passport id or etc. to prove you are british. Nothing like that.

I am also curious about how the evolving technology will affect the public voting systems and public intervention to decisions made in the upcoming years.

I suppose the society will soon start discussing it.

Sorry it took a while for me to understand your meaning.
If your implying that democracy is on the decrease world wide, or that the points im making are going to lead to democratization, then i completely agree.

#25: Re: UK to leave EU Author: ke_mechial,

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:59 pm
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Antony_nz wrote (View Post):

ke_mechial wrote (View Post):

Hi Antony,

I implied "agreed" that people are indeed not happy about the situation on the world and looking for a change. I hope it will eventually lead to a better world, too.

I mentioned the issue of petition, because Referendum could be practiced on Internet in the first place with proper Identification Systems. I mean this in general. After all, you can identify yourself to an iphone by putting your finger on the screen and make a secure payment. With an easy and online voting system, the number of things on which people can directly vote could be increased. IMO it is an unbalance, with this current level of technology, you can vote your favorite singer votely on TV and such other things instantaneously, but not on other political things which affect your life in every aspect.

#26: Re: UK to leave EU Author: ke_mechial,

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:00 pm
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"Votely" lol I mean instantaneously.

#27: Re: UK to leave EU Author: dj,

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:37 am
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Here in the U.S. we are closely monitoring this situation. The future of NATO is also very much at stake. Trump said Europe should pay more for defence. Then Obama said the same thing at NATO conference. He mentioned NATO goal of at least 2% GDP on defence spending. Germany is way short of that, content to let America subsidize them for free. This is crazy what is happening to the U.K. now. Maybe U.S. is to follow-up with the South threatening to leave the U.S. again.

#28: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:47 pm
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I believe they are asking most of Europe to spend 2% GDP.And they wont even do that.

But might i suggest that its not "They want us to spend it" But that Europe doesn't feel the need to to expand there army, as there is no threat.... maybe..

#29: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:07 pm
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Quote.
THE DECISION BY U.K. voters to leave the EU is such a glaring repudiation of the wisdom and relevance of elite political and media institutions that — for once — their failures have become a prominent part of the storyline. Media reaction to the Brexit vote falls into two general categories:

(1) earnest, candid attempts to understand what motivated voters to make this choice, even if that means indicting their own establishment circles, and

(2) petulant, self-serving, simple-minded attacks on disobedient pro-Leave voters for being primitive, xenophobic bigots (and stupid to boot), all to evade any reckoning with their own responsibility. Virtually every reaction that falls into the former category emphasizes the profound failures of Western establishment factions; these institutions have spawned pervasive misery and inequality, only to spew condescending scorn at their victims when they object.

#30: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:21 pm
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quote.
“both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for 30 years”; in particular, “since the 1980s the elites in rich countries have overplayed their hand, taking all the gains for themselves and just covering their ears when anyone else talks, and now they are watching in horror as voters revolt.”
quote.
“If you’ve got money, you vote in. If you haven’t got money, you vote out.
quote.
Just last year in the U.K., Labour members chose someone to lead Tony Blair’s party — the authentically left-wing Jeremy Corbyn — who could not have been more intensely despised and patronized by almost every leading light of the British media and political class. In the U.S., the joyful rejection by Trump voters of the collective wisdom of the conservative establishment evidenced the same contempt for elite consensus. The enthusiastic and sustained rallying, especially by young voters, against beloved-by-the-establishment Hillary Clinton in favor of a 74-year-old socialist taken seriously by almost no D.C. elites reflected the same dynamic. Elite denunciations of the right-wing parties of Europe fall on deaf ears. Elites can’t stop, or even affect, any of these movements because they are, at bottom, revolts against their wisdom, authority, and virtue.
quote.
There is no single, unifying explanation for Brexit, Trumpism, or the growing extremism of various stripes throughout the West, but this sense of angry impotence — an inability to see any option other than smashing those responsible for their plight — is undoubtedly a major factor. As Bevins put it, supporters of Trump, Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements “are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU” to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them.
quote.
Obviously, those who are the target of this anti-establishment rage — political, economic, and media elites — are desperate to exonerate themselves, to demonstrate that they bear no responsibility for the suffering masses that are now refusing to be compliant and silent. The easiest course to achieve that goal is simply to demonize those with little power, wealth, or possibility as stupid and racist
quote.
Because of how generally satisfied they are with their lot, they regard with affection and respect the internationalist institutions that safeguard the West’s prevailing order: the World Bank and IMF, NATO and the West’s military forces, the Federal Reserve, Wall Street, the EU. While they express some piecemeal criticisms of each, they literally cannot comprehend how anyone would be fundamentally disillusioned by and angry with these institutions, let alone want to break from them. They are far removed from the suffering that causes those anti-establishment sentiments. So they search and search in vain for some rationale that could explain something like Brexit
quote.

Even more important, the mechanism that Western citizens are expected to use to express and rectify dissatisfaction — elections — has largely ceased to serve any corrective function

quote.
But that is exactly the choice presented not only by Brexit but also Western elections generally, including the 2016 Clinton v. Trump general election (just look at the powerful array of Wall Street tycoons and war-loving neocons that — long before Trump — viewed the former Democratic New York senator and secretary of state as their best hope for having their agenda and interests served). When democracy is preserved only in form, structured to change little to nothing about power distribution, people naturally seek alternatives for the redress of their grievances, particularly when they suffer.
quote.
More importantly still — and directly contrary to what establishment liberals love to claim in order to demonize all who reject their authority — economic suffering and xenophobia/racism are not mutually exclusive. The opposite is true: The former fuels the latter, as sustained economic misery makes people more receptive to tribalistic scapegoating. That’s precisely why plutocratic policies that deprive huge portions of the population of basic opportunity and hope are so dangerous. Claiming that supporters of Brexit or Trump or Corbyn or Sanders or anti-establishment European parties on the left and right are motivated only by hatred but not genuine economic suffering and political oppression is a transparent tactic for exonerating status quo institutions and evading responsibility for doing anything about their core corruption.[b]

#31: Re: UK to leave EU Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:59 pm
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You can say look! If America has poor people, they are the riches poor people on the history! They all have I phones, they are living beyond there means ect ect.
You can make this sound like a moral question, but its not. Its a survival question! Because if you dont feel there pain, they will make you feel there pain. And they just did.

Stear clear of over generalizations. "The KKK support trump" "The communist party supports black panthers" People have stopped caring because its a Fuck You vote.

This would be easy if it was a extreme right wing or extreme left wing thing. But its now at the point when there is enough people (Considered not to be doing well enough in life) that they will become dangerous if you let them vote and there votes actually matter.

People dont judge them self as the riches poor people in history.

No body in the worlds systems have accountability, if world leaders and institutions were treated like a small business they would be destroyed and made accountable. They have buildt a system of solidifying there legacy and never viewing there mistakes as mistakes.

You can say the free market capitalist system is based on merit. First off, its the best most freest system in the world and theirs always going to be people who work harder and people that dont. blah blah blah But guess what! IT DOESN'T MATTER!
It doesn't matter Wink

Because if its not trump, or its not brixot, it will be something else. Until its turns into systemic problem snowball effect. So we can hope it wont fall victim of the alzheimer's problem the public has.
..And change is change, and we dont always know what that will be.

You cant blow off the shrinking middle class.

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