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#1: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: sod98,

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:03 am
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Hit and Run - a book on NZ SAS who may have committed a war crime in Afghanistan - http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/90699046/claims-of-blood-on-new-zealands-hands-need-answers

Will NZ lead the way and be open or shut up shop and pretend war crimes are for third world dictators only. That this possible accident is just collateral damage.

#2: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: JFFulcrum,

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:27 pm
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Well, its just war. Someone was killed in ambush, command decided to response and send troops make some searches to nearby settlement, claiming 'they may hide the actors/weaponry'. Soldiers (usually) do not have any knowledge about settlement and its inhabitants at all, faces with general unwelcomeness from locals, are nervous. Then someone of locals sneezes, drops something, claps the door loudly - and the triggers was pulled. Shots, people dying, locals running with all directions (including right to barrels), someone thrown grenade... A bunch of corpses as result. What to do? 'Well...ah...they was partisans! Hey, sarge, are there any seized, undeclared weapons in company? Yes, sir! Drop it to corpses, and we moving out!' I think, that happens since the times of Alexander the Great, time to time. War crimes? War IS crime!

#3: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: sod98,

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:50 pm
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JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):

Well, its just war. Someone was killed in ambush, command decided to response and send troops make some searches to nearby settlement, claiming 'they may hide the actors/weaponry'. Soldiers (usually) do not have any knowledge about settlement and its inhabitants at all, faces with general unwelcomeness from locals, are nervous. Then someone of locals sneezes, drops something, claps the door loudly - and the triggers was pulled. Shots, people dying, locals running with all directions (including right to barrels), someone thrown grenade... A bunch of corpses as result. What to do? 'Well...ah...they was partisans! Hey, sarge, are there any seized, undeclared weapons in company? Yes, sir! Drop it to corpses, and we moving out!' I think, that happens since the times of Alexander the Great, time to time. War crimes? War IS crime!

Explain how this action is ok. But when the likes of Assad's or Iran or Russian forces kill civilians the International community and Govts call for investigations and possible war crimes / crimes against humanity. What's even worse is that the Syrians and their invited allies were acting for a legitimate govt. The then Govt Official has just given a statement that goes close to admitting crimes were committed. NZ SAS stopped taking prisoners after a UN report damning them for handing over Taliban and Al Qeada prisoners to the Afghan Govt forces as they were being tortured. Is that no longer a war crime also then.

Interesting to see that murder can be shrugged of as - it happens.

#4: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:52 am
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Im all for New Zealand being charged with war crimes.

When i was younger and stupid i laughed and cheered at the idea of New Zealand doing revenge killings. Now i think its wrong and we were the bad guys in there. :

John Key is a very childish man who didnt actually want to do the things his job required. He actually quit his job because he realized it was time to actually do his job.
I wish he was dead.

#5: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: sod98,

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:38 am
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Antony_nz wrote (View Post):

Im all for New Zealand being charged with war crimes.

When i was younger and stupid i laughed and cheered at the idea of New Zealand doing revenge killings. Now i think its wrong and we were the bad guys in there. :

John Key is a very childish man who didnt actually want to do the things his job required. He actually quit his job because he realized it was time to actually do his job.
I wish he was dead.

I believe this is the start of a larger lawsuit by families of the deceased and the two Investigative Journalists have based some of their book on their stories / witness statements.

#6: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: ScnelleMeyer,

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:48 pm
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I doubt this will lead to charges or any serious punishment of the involved officers or soldiers in question.

1. It is the NZ SAS.
2. Western troops do not commit warcrimes. (Ironic) - Or more correctly : They seldom put any western soldier or officer on trial for warcrimes. Classic case of victors write the history and decide the rules, victors used here in a broad term, - meaning those that control the MSM in the western world.

#7: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: sod98,

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:14 am
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ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):

I doubt this will lead to charges or any serious punishment of the involved officers or soldiers in question.

1. It is the NZ SAS.
2. Western troops do not commit warcrimes. (Ironic) - Or more correctly : They seldom put any western soldier or officer on trial for warcrimes. Classic case of victors write the history and decide the rules, victors used here in a broad term, - meaning those that control the MSM in the western world.

More than likely correct. It's always others committing War Crimes - Saddam, Noriega, Gaddafi, Assad etc. A recent trip through Vietnam and Cambodia, plenty of locals talked about the different crimes committed during their conflicts that to date haven't been settled let alone investigated.

#8: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: JFFulcrum,

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:31 am
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I guess that NZ SAS, despite famous name, do not had any serious war experience before Afghanistan company. So any investigation will probably turn the light to bad military organization, lack of properly training and breaks in chain of command and recon data transfers. Some big star generals thrones will be shattered, so no expectations of such story become something loud.

#9: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: sod98,

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:56 am
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JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):

I guess that NZ SAS, despite famous name, do not had any serious war experience before Afghanistan company. So any investigation will probably turn the light to bad military organization, lack of properly training and breaks in chain of command and recon data transfers. Some big star generals thrones will be shattered, so no expectations of such story become something loud.

Training isn't an issue as they are on a par with the British SAS and often NZ SAS have served in the Brit SAS - Brave Two Zero. NZ SAS have had regular overseas postings since the mid 1950's - Malaya, Thailand, Vietnam, Bougainville, Kuwait, East Tmour, Bosnia etc - http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/willie-apiata-there-to-fight-says-photographer-2010012207

Something that became an issue - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10720934

The above resulted in no more prisoner being taken.

#10: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: sod98,

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:21 am
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Another one of interest from a NZ Investigative Journalist - Ian Wishart - http://www.investigatemagazine.com/june00sas.htm

#11: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: JFFulcrum,

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:29 am
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Quote:

Malaya, Thailand, Vietnam, Bougainville, Kuwait, East Tmour, Bosnia

Well, in Kuwait that was a one-time evac mission, same as in Timor (and where the rebels fights with spears and bows), unarmed mission in Bougainville, finally, in Bosnia they fights for muslim, not against them. So since the end of Vietnam NZ military didn't faced any serious opposition from well-armed irregular forces and hostile locals. So they was send to risky missions with projected passage of 'Kill or be killed'. They decide to kill, cannot easily condemn them for that.

#12: Re: New Zealand possible war crimes Author: sod98,

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:55 pm
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JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):

Quote:

Malaya, Thailand, Vietnam, Bougainville, Kuwait, East Tmour, Bosnia

Bougainville the militia was an armed para military not just sticks and stones. Bosnia didn't matter who they fought for. At the time it was Serbs rightly or wrongly. Lots of NZ SAS serve within the Brit SAS like the Australians and Fijians do. There have been many more OP's but like the Brit SAS they never release to the public information about it. Journalists tend to glean whatever they can and some politicians can't keep their mouths shut.

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