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Close Combat Series -> The Mess

#1: Once more into the breech... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:50 pm
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Any experienced modders interested in pursuing a new mod?

#2: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: Pete, Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:25 am
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I probably should ignore this post but your question intrigues me and got me thinking. I think that the community would appreciate a mod on the Italian campaign in 1944, such as Monte Cassino.
At the moment though I got my hands full with various projects so I don't see myself starting anything new before summer 2020.

#3: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: ScnelleMeyer,

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:47 pm
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I dont really have the concience to offer my support after not delivering what I promised to do for Winter War.. But I am curious about what you have in mind?

#4: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:15 am
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an Italian GC in the LSA format would rock...and made playable on GR. Smile

#5: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: Aetius,

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:38 pm
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A mod in Italy would be great but in my opinion the close combat engine is not suited to mountain warfare.
Most of the decisive fighting in Italy was fought over very tough mountain terrain with very limited armored support.
On the strategic side the movements of infantry and armored battlegroups should have restrictions, this cannot be done in close combat.
In theory an armored battlegroup can cross a "mountain map" with the same speed an infantry battlegroup can, while historically it was impossible to cross for armor.

I know there already are great mods covering the german-soviet war, stalingrad, kharkov, kessel and kursk in progress but there is so much more potential for a great mod "in the east":
-Barbarossa: battle of smolensk 1941
-Crimea campaign 1941
-Battle of Rzhev 1942
-Korsun pocket 1943-1944
-Operation Bagration 1944

To name but a few..

If we could spread the workload to prevent experienced modders getting swamped it can be done.

#6: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: Pete, Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:22 pm
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Aetius, restrictions can be realized by limiting the number of armor in battle groups and avoiding armored battle groups at all. Apart from that, the potential speed advantage of armored BG's is only poorly simulated in Close Combat.
Mountain maps can be designed with only a few roads, slowing down armor, and coding adjacent terrain such that armor bog down or get tracked easily. Only if a map is unoccupied your scenario might apply and still it would take 1 turn to cross that map, regardless of BG type.

I would love to work on a well designed Italy mod. Personally, I am not really interested in a WW2 East Front mod.

#7: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:32 am
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Aetius wrote (View Post):

A mod in Italy would be great but in my opinion the close combat engine is not suited to mountain warfare.
Most of the decisive fighting in Italy was fought over very tough mountain terrain with very limited armored support.
On the strategic side the movements of infantry and armored battlegroups should have restrictions, this cannot be done in close combat.
In theory an armored battlegroup can cross a "mountain map" with the same speed an infantry battlegroup can, while historically it was impossible to cross for armor.

I know there already are great mods covering the german-soviet war, stalingrad, kharkov, kessel and kursk in progress but there is so much more potential for a great mod "in the east":
-Barbarossa: battle of smolensk 1941
-Crimea campaign 1941
-Battle of Rzhev 1942
-Korsun pocket 1943-1944
-Operation Bagration 1944

To name but a few..

If we could spread the workload to prevent experienced modders getting swamped it can be done.

Korsun or a Stalingrad relief effort has always fascinated me... either one modded out of LSA so the beleaguered forces could be the static BO units that are only absorbed by a mobile unit as it passes

#8: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: Aetius,

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:14 pm
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My worry about an Italy campaign is that it will mainly focus on infantry combat with limited armor support.
To me the lack of variation in BG's and the sluggish nature of infantry fighting on rough terrain becomes tedious, that's why i lost interest in the Crete mod i made years ago.
Youve already done the Ortona mod, since it hasn't been ported to TLD/WAR i haven't played it, maybe it could change my mind if i played it Very Happy

I haven't modded LSA so i have no idea what is possible with static BO units and how large they can be made.
Pete do you more about this, i know you didn't use static BO units in your Rhineland mod maybe there was a reason for that?
The relief effort of Stalingrad is covered in the "der kessel" mod, i loved playing that mod.

#9: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: Pete, Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:51 pm
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Aetius wrote (View Post):

My worry about an Italy campaign is that it will mainly focus on infantry combat with limited armor support.
To me the lack of variation in BG's and the sluggish nature of infantry fighting on rough terrain becomes tedious, that's why i lost interest in the Crete mod i made years ago.
Youve already done the Ortona mod, since it hasn't been ported to TLD/WAR i haven't played it, maybe it could change my mind if i played it Very Happy

That was pretty much the nature of fighting in Italy around the German fortified lines. Sicily and Anzio may have been different though. Have not read up on those campaigns.
Tbh I found armor in Ortona somewhat dominant and this was even worse in my port to COI. I redid the height coding of the maps and it got better. Unfortunately I lost most of the work due to a f'd up PC but I intend to get back on it after I finish the Scheldt to COI port.

Aetius wrote (View Post):

I thought I did use static BG's. At least I know I tested with them. Might have encountered a problem and removed them from the GC though.
Static BG's are built differently than normal BG's. It's units are incorporated in the parent BG if that moves onto a map containing a static BG. So static BG's are confined to a particular map and even to specific deployment tiles if you like, their composition is fixed and they can not receive reinforcements.

#10: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:25 pm
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Aetius wrote (View Post):

The relief effort of Stalingrad is covered in the "der kessel" mod, i loved playing that mod.

Not if the whole focus was on the relief itself and the only task for the Stalingrad defenders was to cling to 5-6 maps while the panzers rolled north something like the attached map

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#11: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:34 pm
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sorry later version of the map with the Soviet starting points/fuel dumps

Another concept I was mulling over was using the Panther in the Fog strat 36 maps, no point wider than 4 maps but mostly 3 (I think) so the German flanks are constantly threatened as they advance. 4-5 maps on the far right would be the pocket, three maps on the far left would be the German starting lines for the relief, every flank map top and bottom would allow spawning of Soviet BGs.

I think it would work particularly well with the Pather's or Gateway versions. Within several days you'd see holes appearing in your forcepools and you'd have to work around them using what you had left... just like the actual operations

I think that would work for both Stalingrad and Korsun

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#12: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:56 am
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ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):

I dont really have the concience to offer my support after not delivering what I promised to do for Winter War.. But I am curious about what you have in mind?

How far did you get with winterwar? Uberdave was going to contact you and offer support

#13: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:53 am
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looking at a WW III mod

Been extracting images from Google Earth. Attached is a rough map, about 30 minutes work taken from GE and heavily adapted

If I can find a modding partner I'd like to rut it into the Panthers in the Fog version.

Plan is a non historic mod division vz division or maybe part thereof.

Create a forcepool similar to RSR. But use mod switch or similar to play the files you want. Each mod swop would add a new strat map as well and reposition the maps (maybe even substitute a couple)

Example load sub mod 1 play Brits and germans verses Tank corps and polish division strat map 1 with maps in positions one
Example load sub mod 2 play US and French verses Tank Army strat map 1 with maps in positions two
Example load sub mod 3 play Dutch and Belgium verses airborne div with navel brigade strat map 1 with maps in positions three

Either that or we do a verion for tLD with all nations and 64 maps

Anyone interested?

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#14: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: Aetius,

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:49 am
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WWIII is not really my cup of tea.
Can PITF or GTC even be modded?
Anybody tried changing the stratmap of these?

Stalingrad kessel mod is already done so i see no point in a remake, but as you said the relief effort principle could be used on the Korsun pocket.

What maps do you like drawing most, summer, winter, forest, cities?
If you can draw the maps and the stratmap i'm willing to do the bulk of the other time consuming bits (mapcoding, interface, etc), i've got some spare time now.
If i can get some help with stratmap creation and LSA data structures from an experienced modder i'm sure i can get the hang of it.

Meuse mod is my favorite, armored BG's being let loose blitzkrieg style.
We could use the same idea in the smolensk battle 1941 where the soviets regained their breath after the initial barbarossa assault.
Both sides are well balanced and i believe could make a great mod.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIt-cOOdXPw

Aetius

#15: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: ScnelleMeyer,

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:35 am
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I gave the link for the files to Uberdave, but since have not heard from him.
Regarding progress on WW: Im on vacation abroad now, but I will take a more detailed stock of it in january. - Pete has kindly offered to help as well.
As I remember it now: Some graphical elements for the strat needs doing. all maps need conversion to TLD, Battles,Ops,campaign need to be made and tested.
I think also I was missing a few of your new maps to complete linking the stratmap together rdy for OP creating.

Your ideas for different plug-ins for a modern setting is ambitious, but sounds fun.
Eastern front mod would be awesome - Anything, but preferably late war.

#16: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: GameRat,

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:15 pm
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I'd like to see Operation Atlantic and Operation Goodwood combined into a Grand Campaign using LSA.
The GC could run July 18-21 or 18-23 ... with historical weather, or not.

It could be designed to portray the historical balance which allowed the Germans to hold back the Allied attack, but with the capability that permits the Allies to do better than historical gains, if they fight hard and use a tactics and strategy learned from mistakes made in the past.
Therefore, a chance the Allies could gain more ground than history, and likewise, a chance the Germans could counterattack and regain parts of Caen ... depending upon the skill of players and the randomness of how battles play out.

There is a lot of variation of units and equipment involved ... city combat, hedgerow combat, and wide open field tank battles. The Strategic map could be approximately 8 wide by 8 deep ... for 64 maps.

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#17: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:48 am
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The Static BG's being absorbed causes problems in most scenarios. Tested using them as part of moving Meuse to LSA but the French mobile BG's kept absorbing them reducing the number BG's and maps protected.

They do work for battles with very few mobile BG's like LSA at the start for the Germans or could in the above mentioned scenario where they are all the surrounded BG's so there is nothing mobile in the Cauldron. Just wish Matrix/Steve for the last few releases would have done what the mod makers/testers wanted instead of the minimum required for the next battle/game.

#18: Re: Once more into the breech... Author: Berger,

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:02 pm
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I like future mods about:

-Any late war scenario in which the German troops are armed with Stg44.
-Campaigns with Fallschirmjaeger units.
-Falklands War
-Soviet-Afghan War.

I think it would be interesting to make mods for LSA, PITF or GTC.

stiener wrote (View Post):

an Italian GC in the LSA format would rock...and made playable on GR. Smile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Garfagnana

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

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