War in Ukraine?
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#861: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: Berger,  PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:39 am
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An analysis of the air war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=carENYJE7bg
#862: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: Berger,  PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:59 am
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I don't think it will be long before Bakhmut falls into Russian hands. Next step will be to capture Sloviansk and Kramatorsk.

Maybe the Ukrainian government will collapse like Germany in 1918, but this is my partisan wish.
#863: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: Bungarra, Location: Murchison region, West Australia PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:20 am
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Tell em he's dreamin
#864: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: dj,  PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:49 am
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Berger wrote (View Post):
An analysis of the air war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=carENYJE7bg


Actually this is very good video...not the usual propaganda video.  Interesting what he said about Ukraine waging its own disinformation campaign on social media.

As far as your wish of overthrow Ukraine government...you might want to ask Viktor Yanukovych how that worked out last time.  Having another Russian-state Puppet regime causing his own overthrown twice actually.
But it was when his own snipers killed 88 protesters was the end of Pro-Putin puppets in Ukraine.  Do you realize that Ukraine didn't want to be slave to Russia and wanted all along to have closer ties to European Union?
More likely historical situation is not Germany 1918, but rather Russia 1917.  Ukraine and Russia have same birthdays as new nation states.  Soviet Union lasted not very long either.  Ironically Russian invasion helped unite Ukraine.
#865: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: Berger,  PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:21 pm
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Viktor Yanukovych was democratically elected and he was deposed by a coup one year before his mandate expired.

I realize that a part of Ukrainians don't want to be a part of Russia and they want closer ties with the West. Hope you realize theres also a part of ukrainians who just want the opposite.
#866: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: dj,  PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:05 am
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Berger wrote (View Post):
Viktor Yanukovych was democratically elected and he was deposed by a coup one year before his mandate expired.

I realize that a part of Ukrainians don't want to be a part of Russia and they want closer ties with the West. Hope you realize theres also a part of ukrainians who just want the opposite.


No, actually that was determined to be fraudulent fake election by Yankovych.  Generally speaking, Authoritarian or Puppet-States never have real elections. Because there is no transparency or way to legitimately authenticate results.  Also Putin paid Paul Mannafort $400k USD as political consultant for Yankovych to help become more polished.  Evidently Putin didn't get much for it.  Plus Paul never paid Oligarch Oleg for a large "loan", got ripped off.

Yes agreed there are some Ukrainians whom may prefer Russia control.  It is very small minority, about 10% I estimate.   You can agree, that if majority of Ukrainians allegedly preferred Russia control...they would not be fighting & dying in huge numbers to resist Russia control.
#867: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: paratmar,  PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:01 am
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Empire of Deception  Laughing

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#868: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:00 am
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Pretty weak meme considering..... Russia invaded Ukraine and is destroying whole cities.
#869: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: JFFulcrum,  PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:23 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

No real reason not to be there... do you recognize Ukraine as being its own country?


As we with dj found, its nothing wrong when you need to cut 'direct link', oil supplies or some other important things. Of course, you can always publicly remember about Nazi threat. Or ISIS threat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpyzZS154Lc

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#870: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: JFFulcrum,  PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:41 pm
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Quote:
However Russia lost 130 tanks at Vuledhar very costly defeat after failed attack.

In the memos both sides destroyed entire enemy`s army five to ten times. Unless there are photos supplied, like was in past summer about river cross of Seversky Donets, or materials on special portals like Oryx and Lostarmour, never trust official numbers.

Quote:
Then I guess Russian propaganda just shifted to hardcore Fascist appeal. I see the Propaganda posters quite obviously a copy of Nazi Germany techniques.

Russian state from summer mostly avoids anything about targets of SVO in Ukraine. So the official propaganda posters are entirely like 'Support our heroes' or 'Help peoples of Donbass'. Anything other is someone's private creation or part of (dis)information war.

Quote:
But it was when his own snipers killed 88 protesters was the end of Pro-Putin puppets in Ukraine.  

Yanukovich was the least interested in that shootings. And new Ukrainian govt made nothing to investigate for 8 years...they even give up accused 'Berkut' soldiers to Russia. Because real investigations will quickly point at new Ukrainian govt itself.  

Quote:
I like Navalny because his focus is on solution and exposing corruption.

Some breaking news: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/09/alexei-navalny-ally-quits-after-urging-eu-to-drop-sanctions-against-oligarchs - fighters against Putin's oligarchs was on pay from oligarchs. And here are US court decision about those, about whom so cared Navalny`s friends : https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2000cv2208-148

In Russia its called '???' - 'toad rapes viper' - means that both sides are so ugly, that no one deserves a blink of sympathy.
#871: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: paratmar,  PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:40 pm
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dj wrote (View Post):
Berger wrote (View Post):
Viktor Yanukovych was democratically elected and he was deposed by a coup one year before his mandate expired.

I realize that a part of Ukrainians don't want to be a part of Russia and they want closer ties with the West. Hope you realize theres also a part of ukrainians who just want the opposite.


No, actually that was determined to be fraudulent fake election by Yankovych.  Generally speaking, Authoritarian or Puppet-States never have real elections. Because there is no transparency or way to legitimately authenticate results.  Also Putin paid Paul Mannafort $400k USD as political consultant for Yankovych to help become more polished.  Evidently Putin didn't get much for it.  Plus Paul never paid Oligarch Oleg for a large "loan", got ripped off.

Yes agreed there are some Ukrainians whom may prefer Russia control.  It is very small minority, about 10% I estimate.   You can agree, that if majority of Ukrainians allegedly preferred Russia control...they would not be fighting & dying in huge numbers to resist Russia control.
Surzhyk - sociolect (from the name surzhyk - “bread made from flour of a mixture of different types of substances, such as wheat and rye”), rural vernacular mix russian (from  towns) and other languages (from villages).

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#872: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:51 pm
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paratmar wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
Berger wrote (View Post):
Viktor Yanukovych was democratically elected and he was deposed by a coup one year before his mandate expired.

I realize that a part of Ukrainians don't want to be a part of Russia and they want closer ties with the West. Hope you realize theres also a part of ukrainians who just want the opposite.


No, actually that was determined to be fraudulent fake election by Yankovych.  Generally speaking, Authoritarian or Puppet-States never have real elections. Because there is no transparency or way to legitimately authenticate results.  Also Putin paid Paul Mannafort $400k USD as political consultant for Yankovych to help become more polished.  Evidently Putin didn't get much for it.  Plus Paul never paid Oligarch Oleg for a large "loan", got ripped off.

Yes agreed there are some Ukrainians whom may prefer Russia control.  It is very small minority, about 10% I estimate.   You can agree, that if majority of Ukrainians allegedly preferred Russia control...they would not be fighting & dying in huge numbers to resist Russia control.
Surzhyk - sociolect (from the name surzhyk - “bread made from flour of a mixture of different types of substances, such as wheat and rye”), rural vernacular mix russian (from  towns) and other languages (from villages).


I'd like to point out that farm land does not speak any language.
#873: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:02 pm
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JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):
Quote:
However Russia lost 130 tanks at Vuledhar very costly defeat after failed attack.

In the memos both sides destroyed entire enemy`s army five to ten times. Unless there are photos supplied, like was in past summer about river cross of Seversky Donets, or materials on special portals like Oryx and Lostarmour, never trust official numbers.


10 Feb 23 - According to Oryx, the total Russian losses of BMPs, armored personnel carriers, tanks, missile systems, communication centers, helicopters and aircraft, trucks, artillery pieces and other equipment for the full year of the war exceeded 9,000 units.

The media will report any armoured vehicle as a tank. Sometimes any vehicle as a tank.

Its likely they lost 130 vehicles in the battle.
#874: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: dj,  PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:55 am
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paratmar wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
Berger wrote (View Post):
Viktor Yanukovych was democratically elected and he was deposed by a coup one year before his mandate expired.

I realize that a part of Ukrainians don't want to be a part of Russia and they want closer ties with the West. Hope you realize theres also a part of ukrainians who just want the opposite.


No, actually that was determined to be fraudulent fake election by Yankovych.  Generally speaking, Authoritarian or Puppet-States never have real elections. Because there is no transparency or way to legitimately authenticate results.  Also Putin paid Paul Mannafort $400k USD as political consultant for Yankovych to help become more polished.  Evidently Putin didn't get much for it.  Plus Paul never paid Oligarch Oleg for a large "loan", got ripped off.

Yes agreed there are some Ukrainians whom may prefer Russia control.  It is very small minority, about 10% I estimate.   You can agree, that if majority of Ukrainians allegedly preferred Russia control...they would not be fighting & dying in huge numbers to resist Russia control.
Surzhyk - sociolect (from the name surzhyk - “bread made from flour of a mixture of different types of substances, such as wheat and rye”), rural vernacular mix russian (from  towns) and other languages (from villages).


Agreed...it is true that very large % of Ukrainian citizens speak Russian.  And I would assume many of them can speak both Ukrainian + Russian since not much difference anyways linguistically.  That still does not change the basic fact that overwhelming majority of its Citizens prefer not being re-annexed again with Russia.  There was a very specific reason why Ukraine wanted to form as separate and independent nation-state after fall of Soviet Union.  Ethnic Russians whom speak Russian living in Ukraine largely do not support Russian control.  

America was entirely English speaking when it wanted independence as colony of Imperial England.  Minus the Native American tribes and some French settlers.  The consensus was clear the majority wanted freedom from England control.  Like in Ukraine, we had small minority probably 10% also that were loyal to mother country and did not support Independence.  It was a moot point, did not matter at the end because the consensus majority supported American independence and sacrificed their lives to do so.
#875: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: GameRat,  PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:42 pm
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KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview. Explains KGB Manipulation of US Public Opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOmXiapfCs8

what do you think about this?
#876: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: dj,  PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:28 pm
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GameRat wrote (View Post):
KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview. Explains KGB Manipulation of US Public Opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOmXiapfCs8

what do you think about this?


Wow fascinating video so prophetic.  Too bad we didn't listen to him in 1985. The link between Putin's long career as KGB veteran officer and how modern Russian state operates is undeniable.  The KGB defector said the "demoralization" of United States had already been completed in 1985.  One quote that rang especially true 5:22  "...a person whom is demoralized, is unable to assess true information, the facts tell nothing to him." That plus the new generation of Cults sweeping across the globe, where gullible people can be duped to believe almost anything if entertaining and compelling story can be framed to manipulate and control the viewer.
#877: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:05 am
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I watched it to. I would say anyone who listens to this who is demoralized already, will think he's talking about the other people or the other side.

Imagine what he would say about how this tactic works over the internet and social media.

We can only wonder at the manipulation Russia has used on their own population.
#878: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: paratmar,  PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:06 am
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"That way -- the insertion of NATO troops -- lies the serious possibility of civilizational annihilation. Because, whatever happens on the conventional battlefield, the Russians will not tolerate the conversion of Ukraine into a vast military base of the United States on its front porch." https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2023/03/the_uss_march_of_folly_in_ukraine.html Rolling Eyes
#879: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:28 pm
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paratmar wrote (View Post):
"That way -- the insertion of NATO troops -- lies the serious possibility of civilizational annihilation. Because, whatever happens on the conventional battlefield, the Russians will not tolerate the conversion of Ukraine into a vast military base of the United States on its front porch." https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2023/03/the_uss_march_of_folly_in_ukraine.html Rolling Eyes


If anyone cares to read this article its a run of the mill heavily opinionated (sprinkled with a lot of adjectives) article without any references.
#880: Re: War in Ukraine? Author: dj,  PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:41 am
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Paratmar basically your article is just the usual daily propaganda served by either Tucker Carlson or Russian state media.  I am well aware of the official narrative that the enemy Russian people fights in Ukraine is not Ukrainian people but rather NATO, which is a lie.  Russian State every day frames a false narrative that NATO is responsible for the war.  For example your State media showed Malcom Nance and lied said he was part of NATO.  No he is 60 years old whom volunteered on his own free will as individual whom risked his life to help defend Ukraine.   Please tell me why you think Finland and Sweden joined NATO?
Close Combat Series -> The Mess


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