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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad

#1: KV-1?? Author: SlithMan,

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:55 am
—
The mod is awesome!! but the KV - 1's are indestrucible, 2 88's opend fire from 224 meters, and nothing, they just turned and blew the guns up. I know the KV 1 had a lot of armor but 88's from that range, on side shots should be punching holes.

#2: Re: KV-1?? Author: elmomother,

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:07 am
—

SlithMan wrote:

The mod is awesome!! but the KV - 1's are indestrucible, 2 88's opend fire from 224 meters, and nothing, they just turned and blew the guns up. I know the KV 1 had a lot of armor but 88's from that range, on side shots should be punching holes.

I know, they do seem quite indestructible. I had a whole battalion of them land on me, they just knocked out every AT gun and tank in sight. They would have long rolled me off that map if it weren't for the accursed AI. They just sit there, complacent with the 3 yards of territory they won from me, and I just have to sit and wait on the timer. I actually managed to destory one once - quite amazing to me: first shot, with an 88 from several 100m away. Razz

#3: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:11 am
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PzIVG kills KV, another one showed up...

ordered PzIV to fire...turret turns and SHOT!

Last SP(PzGren40) shell payed itself.

Single SP shell of FlaK36 killed entire crew of KV.

KV is not invincible...just tough enemy. But has it's disadvantages...low rate of fire and accuracy of it's ZIS-5 gun, very slow turret traverse(almost 3times slower than PzIVG has) and slow speed.

#4: Author: LapsedPacifist, Location: UK

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:13 am
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I ran into a bunch of KV-1s at the southern train station but managed to dispatch them with relative ease with Mark IIIs and Mark IVs by getting in behind them at close range (100m or so). Maybe I was just lucky?

#5: Author: MarcinT, Location: Poland

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:40 pm
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In my case i found that is very difficult to knocked out tank (PzIII or PZIV) by ATgun 45mm --- i played many missions and always i get knocked out my atgun before i knocek out any tank ------- even in case that atgun are goo hidden in buldings. In one sentence ---> One tank shoot - one atgun destroyed !

Marcin T - Poland

#6: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:41 pm
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45mm obr.37 wasn't good in 1942 due to quality of AP shells.
Gv 45mm has 3 SP(sub-caliber) shells and regular 45mm has 1SP shell.Nov,MP doesn't have SP shells.But SP shells r very inaccurate.

AP:51mm@100m.
SP:100mm@100m.

So it's better to use 45mm vs side/rear of german tanx,especially PzIII.

In comparison PTRD/S could make 42mm@100m.

#7: Author: MarcinT, Location: Poland

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:08 pm
—

Dima wrote:

45mm obr.37 wasn't good in 1942 due to quality of AP shells.
Gv 45mm has 3 SP(sub-caliber) shells and regular 45mm has 1SP shell.Nov,MP doesn't have SP shells.But SP shells r very inaccurate.

AP:51mm@100m.
SP:100mm@100m.

So it's better to use 45mm vs side/rear of german tanx,especially PzIII.

In comparison PTRD/S could make 42mm@100m.

I figure out this and prefer to get PTRD team instead of 45mm obr.37 --- they could destroy PZIV too and they are small and hard to discover !!!

I love PzIV burning from PTRD bullets Twisted Evil

p.s - when German didn't have tank - it is better to choose ATG 45mm Smile

#8: im loving... Author: ANZAC_Tack, Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:33 pm
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the 45mm ATG HE shells on infantry! oh what a gun! and yes, if hidden on ambush, then fire 1 rd in say wooded area, then back to ambush is one of the few ways to survive, never take on those blasted 20mm Zksrecon armoured cars...they are ATG killers! use the ATrifles, the semi auto is just so good, in a bld with commander behind them...i always carry 2.

#9: Author: Manoi, Location: Brussels

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:12 pm
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for KV, I have just taken out one KV at 200m range (in H2H) by 75 mmPak 41. So it is hard but possible! Wink

#10: Author: __Creeper__,

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:10 am
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do the Russian AT rifles cause german tanks to explode?

If so, did you guys consider giveing the AT rifles a 0 blast size? this will allow the rifles to penatrate the armor as normal, causeing casualties inside the tank,, but this change will prevent the bullets from blowing up the tank

Iv only played a couple battles against the AI so far, so I havent seen much of this games units in action, but one of the above posters said he likes seeing a flameing tank from AT rifle team, so I thought Id post

#11: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:38 am
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Creeper... That sounds cool.... it would also let the enemy capture tanks.

#12: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:16 am
—

Quote:

If so, did you guys consider giveing the AT rifles a 0 blast size? this will allow the rifles to penatrate the armor as normal, causeing casualties inside the tank,, but this change will prevent the bullets from blowing up the tank

maybe u mean -1? w/o graphics at all? as 0=tiny explosion.

but anyway yer statement is incorrect.

#13: Author: MarcinT, Location: Poland

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:35 am
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Yes - You can burn Pz from PTRD/PTRS - but usaally I only able to kill/wound crew, immobilize or damage tank. I sporadicaly burn tanks with atriffles - but i must say that is wonderfull view and feelings Twisted Evil

Dima (or someone else) - do You have any photos or documents that say that PZIV or PZIII are totally exploded in cause of hit from ATRifles ? This should quiet this unbelievers on forum, who don't believe in that Wink

#14: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:36 pm
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tanx explode coz of 2 events(in 90% cases):

1)ammunition hit.
2)fuel system damaged.

any shell/round penetrating armor can cause explosion if hit ammunition or fuel system Wink

.

but!
In most cases single penetration by shell/round will force crew to bail out in real life(no matter if tank caught fire or not). In CC they don't do it.

#15: Author: __Creeper__,

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:55 pm
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sorry, its been a very long time since Iv tinkered with the data, so I forgot to mention that you also have to change the primary and valid target to "infantry"

and yes, I meant -1 no blast image

it works for sure, I just tested 15 Tiger VS 15 cromwell

with the modified tiger 88 L/56

results, all cromwell tanks/crews abandoned/dead at battles end, none exploded, all were picked apart by the tigers, crewman by crewman

took a while to wipe them all out, but it worked

#16: Author: __Creeper__,

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:01 pm
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ok ok, primary target can remain as vehicle

just change "valid target" to terrain instead of infantry

#17: Author: Dima,

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:40 pm
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creeper,

i told u why that is not acceptable for ATRs.

#18: Author: __Creeper__,

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:47 pm
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no you didnt

primary target can remain as vehicle

valid target can be terrain

whats wrong with that?

neither of these values makes infantry a valid target

remember, yesderday we had not yet discovered that primary target may remain as vehicle, so theres no way that we discussed this option

anyway, Ill test it and see what happens

-----------------------------------------------------------

in case anyones confused about what were talking about

on gamespy we talked, and tested setting primary and valid target both to "infantry" and blast size to -1

dima tested it, and though it works, it also allows the AT rifle to fire at infantry, wich is too deadly because of the high kill rateing of the AT rifle (needed to penatrate tank armor)

so it was indeed unacceptable to allow infantry as a primary or valid target

-----------------------------------------------------------

tested it, and sadly, "primary = Vehicle" and "Valid = terrain" also, for some reason, allows the team to fire at infantry with the AT rifle

so I guess we cant have non explosive AT rifles, without the side effect of them fireing at infantry

oh well, it wasnt a big deal anyway

#19: Indestructible KV-1s Author: alberich,

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:10 am
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Hi SlithMan,

following your post I was quite worried before I encountered my first squadron on KV-1s.

However, in my experience, a whole PaK-front (Ideally two or three 88s or the PaK 36 (r)) plus one from an angle (the PaK 38 will do nicely) is enough to do the job properly - at least when playing the AI mod.

I figure that with sufficient CC III RealRed practice under your belt you will be able to prevail.

Hope this helps

alberich

#20: @#$%@* KV-1's Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:12 pm
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I'm reopening the KV-1 indestructible issue. Playing Hill 120 map against Heavy Tank KV-1 BG. Playing as the Germans, I placed 3 88's and several more AT guns. I shot one KV-1 tank TWELVE (12) times with 2 seperate 88's and did not even dent it. No immobilization, nor crew injury, NOTHING! I got frustrated and exited before battle was over to replay. During replay the same exact thing happens regardless of whether I hit the KV-1 in the rear, front or side and at decent range, ALL survive with no damage. I have played this map with the KV BG 4 separate times and the same results each time. CAN'T kill the KV-1 with any German AT weapon. 3rd time got in dual with 88 and KV-1 and I fired 10 rounds at full LOS, well within effective range and AGAIN nothing. Just another dead 88 and a KV-1 that "moon walks" back and forth.

- In a separate instance I have faced a KV-1 (Differnt BG with 1 or 2 KV-1's available) assigned to a different battle group and was successful in knocking one out with a single shot with a far inferior gun. BUT the Heavy tank KV-1 BATTEL GROUP (not sure of unit name) seems to be indestructible. I have now taken the approach of cutting off their supply. BUT I can't kill a single one of them. I did immobolize 4 with artillery barrage but I cannot kill these tanks in this BG. Confused

#21: hope this helps! Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:43 am
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regarding the 88 vs KV1 debate

first of all the 88s penetration rate is not sufficient.
2ndly the KV1 has some overatings.

in the russian teams (ALsteams)
there r 4 KV1 teams
2 of these use the same vehicle
the command KV1 and and the KV1 obr 41
the KV1 41 (F32) & KV1 obr 41 (e) have a vehicle each designated to them.

88 has some chance against the first 2
but must be in point blank ranges (where ATGs r not usually set up)

also against the F32 model has some chance but is getting slimmer.

then if it is the KV1 obr 41 (e) u might as well pack ur 88s up and go home.
this thing has super armour everywhere!!!
hull sides and rear
turrest sides r so tough that most tanks wish they had 2/3 of that armour on their front
so if ur waiting patiently for this fucker to turn on its side for an easier shot,ur in for a surprise as its side hull and turret armour values r set higher than the front of the tank. Smile

kinda of useful imformation for if u r playing or modding it.
L4W Razz

#22: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:57 am
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here is a list of the guns for AP penetration.
there in order of most powerful first (most penetration from its PB ap round)
i did not take into account the special ammo settings.
as they dont work as they were intended to do so.
see another forum on CCS for issues with ammo.

Name PB AP KR
7.5cm L/58.............223 this is 1 mean gun.
7.5cm L/46.............132
7.62cm PaK36(r)......126
7.5cm StuK40 L/43...124
7.5cm KwK40 L/43....124 these top 5 guns outperform the 88
8.8cm L/56..............123
8.8cm FlaK37 L/56....123
85mm 52-K..............119
7.5cm StuK40 L/48...115
7.62cm L/52.............114
4.2cm lePaK41..........105 this is a handy lil bugger.
76mm ZIS-3..............90
76.2mm F-22usv........90
76mm ZIS-5..............90
76.2mm F-34.............90
76.2mm F-34.............90
7.62cm KwK L/42.......90
76mm F-10................86
5cm KwK39 L/60........80
5cm L/60...................80
2.8cm sPzB.41...........80
2.8cm sPzB.41...........80
7.5cm L/36...............73
76.2mm F-32.............73
4.7cm L/53...............66
5cm KwK38 L/42........64
37mm 61-K................59
4.7cm PaK(t) L/43.......57
4.7cm L/43................57
45mm 53-K................51
45mm obr.32/37.........51
45mm 20-K.................51
PTRD........................50
PTRS........................50 not bad for anti tank rifles
7.5cm KwK37 L/24.....48
7.5cm KwK37 L/24.....48
7.5cm StuK37 L/24....48
3.7cm FlaK37..............44
3.7cm PaK36..............41
3.7cm L/46.................41
Panzerbnchse 39.........36
Panzerbnchse 39.........36
76mm L/16.5..............36
20mm TNSh...............35
2cm L/113.................29
2cm KwK38 L/55.........29
2cm FlaK38 L/113........29

#23: Author: Volksjager_cn, Location: Washington state, USA

Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:10 pm
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I can speak from my experience while playing my public Stalingrad GC as Russians. Flak 88 can knocked out KV-1 at the range about 100-200m. So does the Pak 38 5cm ATG. One shot, one dead KV. They were KV-1 obr 41. Not sure about KV-1(e).

KV-1(e) with extra applique armour. One of my KV-1(e) withstand numerous hits from PzIV and PzIII hits and survived. Its F-32 gun in turns picked out the Panzers one by one. Resulting in disbanding the German BG.

Overall, my opinion of KV is no better than other tanks. Most ATG can take them out without much problem.

#24: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:58 pm
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Anzac - thanks for the response - you have obviously fueled my fire

Volksjager_cn - as I said, I knocked out one KV-1 with a smaller weapon (Close range) but it appears to be quite the fluke when it happens. Anzac's research of settings appears to show that the KV-1 has its armor settings set TOO HIGH.

Quote:

Overall, my opinion of KV is no better than other tanks. Most ATG can take them out without much problem

I disagree with this assessment for the moment but will try pushing a different BG up against the Heavy Russian BG since I have lost all 20+ AT guns from my current BG with zero KV's to show for it. We'll see if I can bring some differnt weapons to bare and see their effect.

#25: Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:18 am
—

Quote:

Anzac's research of settings appears to show that the KV-1 has its armor settings set TOO HIGH.

imho it just showed his incapability of making comprehensive research.

Let's try to analize some entries abit:

Quote:

8.8cm L/56..............123
8.8cm FlaK37 L/56....123

That's penetration capability of 8.8cm PzGr. that was used by sFlaK crews only till ~summer 1942.
By ~summer 1942 new 8.8cm PzGr.39was designed due to adoption of new Hvy Tank with 8.8cm KwK36.
So FlaK crews began to receive new PzGr.39 in summer 1942. That's why in September 1942 (Stal mod time) each Flak has 15 PzGr. and 10 PzGr.39.
PzGr39 is called SP shell in mod and is able to pen. 150mm@100m.

But if we look at FlaK37 mounted on SdKfz 9 wihich main mission was Anti-Bunker/Anti-Tank u'll c that it doesn't have any AP(PzGr.) shell but only SP(PzGr39).

Quote:

in the russian teams (ALsteams)
there r 4 KV1 teams
2 of these use the same vehicle
the command KV1 and and the KV1 obr 41
the KV1 41 (F32) & KV1 obr 41 (e) have a vehicle each designated to them.

sounds fine ye?
But if u check Alsteams yerself u'll notice that Command KV-1 and KV-1 obr.41 refers to vehicle number 77.
KV-1 (F-32) refers to vehicle number 73.
KV-1 obr41(e) refers to vehicle number 74.

No77 and No73 vehicles have exactly same armour settings apart from armour setting for No73 glacis (due to my mistake aparently).

And only the last one - No74, has additional armour at front hull and side hull/turret coz it was (e)=ekranirovaniy(shielded). That's why it is so slow in mod.
(e) tanx program was developed before the war and applied to medium tanx and hvy tanx in war time to counter the heaviest enemy ATGs. While it helped vs 8.8cm PzGr. APCBC, additional armour was rather useless vs 8.8cm PzGr39 APCBC thus program was mostly cancelled in 1942.

Quote:

PTRD........................50
PTRS........................50 not bad for anti tank rifles

while most of guns compared at 100m range in his chart, ATRs data is showed at 50m but no references provided to point this.
PTRD/S pen. at 100m is 42mm in Stal mod.

Now let's try to sum alil bit.

FlaK36 has 15 AP (123mm@100m) and 10 SP(150mm@100m).
FlaK37 has 20 SP (150mm@100m).

KV-1 obr.41/Command has 113/124/114mm fronl hull, 84/83/84mm side hull; 107/108/101mm front turret, 87/86/85mm side turret.

KV-1 obr.41(F-32) has 113/144/114mm fronl hull, 84/83/84mm side hull; 107/108/101mm front turret, 87/86/85mm side turret.

KV-1 obr.41(e) has 168/132/174mm front hull, 159/158/159mm side hull; 107/108/101mm front turret, 112/111/110mm side turret.

Take in mind that only 2 KV-1 obr.41(e) available on LINE, 0 on ELITE and 11 on RECRUIT.
RECRUIT was mainly done for AI while one plays single player.

#26: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:36 am
—

Quote:

Dima :Quote:
Anzac's research of settings appears to show that the KV-1 has its armor settings set TOO HIGH.

imho it just showed his incapability of making comprehensive research.

Let's try to analize some entries abit:

No need to Dima.
I posted the data from Stalingrad 1.2 mod.
ur analizing ur own data.

#27: Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:44 am
—

Quote:

No need to Dima.
I posted the data from Stalingrad 1.2 mod.
ur analizing ur own data.

well, if u took into account that it was me who made 1.2 data then yes i was analizing my own data in my last reply Wink

#28: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:06 pm
—
Gentlmen - First let me say what I always believe - Thank you for your time and effort in developing these mods and allowing history hobbists like me to play WWII infantry warfare games.

I am not a developer nor a research specialist so I can only convey what I experience in actual game play. My inspiration for reopening this KV strength issue stems from the obvious inability I have had at killing any KV-1 tanks with an 88 mm or pak 38. I have only succeeded in immoblizing 4 KV's with an artillery barrage.

I will note that in my battles for Hill 120 all of my engagements with KV-1s have been at ranges of 180+ meters due mainly to the fact that the KV's won't advance. It appears that I will have to practice more patience with the KV's and attempt to suck them into a closer range ambush. I also set the AI (Russians) at recruit so I am facing several KV-1 obr41(e).

Again thank you for your efforts in developing this mod. My posts are strictly for feedback and tactical education and are NOT meant as criticism. Please keep up the good work.

NOTE - I've been playing this stuff for over 25 yrs going back to the days of board based Squad Leader series published by Avalon Hill. Anyone ever play Squad Leader series (board game - not a PC game)?

_dtn

#29: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:21 pm
—
In two seperate head to head Operations against two different opponents, I used the 21stPzD against the KV div. Betime the Op had ended, I had destroyed every last one of the KV's, and in turn lost all of my tanks (PzIII's, PzIV's, Marders). So, more German armor lost, but they did the trick.

#30: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:39 am
—
thanks for the feedback. It appears that I may have placed too high a value on the vaunted 88 and based upon Dima's input on ammo changes during the summer of '42, I feel better informed. Unfortunately such info is not readily available to a lamen gamer and must be gleaned from forums like this. Thanks again for the input/feedback and for furthering my CC education. Smile

#31: Author: socrates, Location: Scotland

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:45 pm
—

__Creeper__ wrote:

do the Russian AT rifles cause german tanks to explode?

A good AT rifle team will know where the fuel tank is located on enemy armour and will always aim for it. If they were to try to kill individual crew members the tank would still be able to turn it's gun(s) on them and turn them into bite sized chunks

#32: Author: Digs, Location: Ontario, Canada

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:04 am
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The .50 calibre anti-tank rifle was used to immobilize a tank by blowing out the track!.

#33: atg Author: ANZAC_Tack, Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:02 am
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ATR tactics,

fire, and run away.

hopfully u have immobilised the tank, wait for enevedable spray of mmg fire, 75mm HE shells(or similar),then sneak back if ur alive, then try to burn em. well thats how i do it in CC, keep firing till spotted,, then forest gump time!

#34: Author: Boggz,

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:51 pm
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For the KV's a ATR team with excellent cover can fire without drawing attention. I suppose if you are playing H2H you should expect return fire but an AI won't generally until your team becomes visible. Side or rear shots often start killing crew members quickly.

#35: Author: mikwarleo,

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:25 am
—
I agree with L4W and Kevin.

In a recent example had 4 tanks (3xMk4 long barrel, 1xMk3cmd) all nicely lined up front-on at less than 200m range against a single KV1 at the start of a battle. The KV1 soaked up all the hits and won easily.

Another shrugged 5 absolute point blank side hits and explosives undamaged.

They're unstoppable monsters in the hand of a human opponent and a game killer as such. Imho the vannilla GC is unplayable due to the advantage KV1s offer.

Last Dima, I humbly point out that everyone appreciates your work (utah is one of the best mods in the game imo) but flaming people who are offering their opinion/feedback on your work doesn't help anyone. Your reply to Lord4War was foul.

#36: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:44 am
—

Quote:

but flaming people who are offering their opinion/feedback on your work doesn't help anyone.

when did i flame anyone who had offered feedback/opinion on my work?

Quote:

Your reply to Lord4War was foul.

what reply do u mean?

Quote:

They're unstoppable monsters in the hand of a human opponent and a game killer as such. Imho the vannilla GC is unplayable due to the advantage KV1s offer.

alot of things will be chnged in new version.

#37: Author: Pzt_Pandemic,

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:11 am
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lol, flame post was posted a year and a half ago mikwarleo

#38: Author: mikwarleo,

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:43 am
—
pandemic: Doesn't really make any difference when it was, KV1 problem is still the same and I could hardly have put my feedback more gently.

Dima: I can't see the point in replying to you since I'm not interested in debating. I've said my bit.

EDIT: looking forward to new version. Smile

#39: Author: iamfishhead,

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:20 am
—

__Creeper__ wrote:

do the Russian AT rifles cause german tanks to explode?

If so, did you guys consider giveing the AT rifles a 0 blast size? this will allow the rifles to penatrate the armor as normal, causeing casualties inside the tank,, but this change will prevent the bullets from blowing up the tank

Iv only played a couple battles against the AI so far, so I havent seen much of this games units in action, but one of the above posters said he likes seeing a flameing tank from AT rifle team, so I thought Id post

I don't see why this couldn't happen. It seems like it's within the realm of possibility that a round from an AT rifle could penetrate a PzIV tank given that the rifle was quoted by someone else as penetrating 42mm at 100m. The only place the PzIV-Gs had this much armor was on the front. It's also pretty reasonable for it AT rifle to make the tank explode. These were pre-shaped charge, so the shells were probably just solid metal bullet with a point. When a metal shell goes through metal armor, it gets really, really hot, perhaps even becoming molten. What this means is that you have the three components you need to make an explosion:

Also, as far as AT rifles firing at infantry, it would seem reasonable for them to really be able to put the hurt on infantry. I mean if it can take some lighter tanks out, imagine what it does to a person.

#40: Author: Pzt-angus, Location: Shanghai , China

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:48 pm
—

Dima wrote:

alot of things will be chnged in new version.

Stalingrad 1.3 ? Razz

#41: Re: KV-1?? Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:44 pm
—
OK after a long time, I am changing my opinion of the KV-1 tanks. I got sick of playing Utah1.3 and GJS and recently (last 2 months) started fighting Stalingrad GC extensively against 3-4 different human opponents and have found that the KV tanks can be destroyed. The MarkIV with is 75mm gun has faired well and surprisingly the Pak38 with its 50mm gun has been devastating. I've had two separate guns that have killed 4 KV-1's with the first or second shot. Also the PzIII with its 50mm gun has faired very well especially in close range (within 100 meters). I will note that most of the successful kills have occured inside the closer ranges of 100/150 meters. The long ranges duels are not as successful but I have scored some kills with the MarkIV at a longer range. Overall across the 3 GC's I have going I have probably killed over 30 KV's so far. So they obviously can be brought down.

#42: FlaK 36 destroys KV-1s at half-kilometer range Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:56 am
—
In my playthrough, the Soviet heavy tank BG attacked Hill 120 - a map with several large open fields. They could hardly have chosen a better map to use the heavy tank BG on. I had only an infantry BG defending the area. I tried engaging the KV-1s as close as possible with PaK 38s, FlaK 36s, and StuG IIICs, but although it seemed to work at first, in succeeding battles I kept losing all my AT and assault guns without knocking out a single KV-1.

I decided for a change of plans, until I could bring a Panzer BG in. I hid my remaining StuGs away (the StuG IIICs gun is woefully inadequate against KV-1s anyway), and put the BG's last FlaK 36 on the main road, around halfway across the map from the Soviet deploy (Hilll 120 is a rather large map). I noticed that the Soviets always deployed at least 1 KV-1 on the main road, so by putting a gun there I could engage that one tank without being seen by the others deployed on the fields.

By doing this, I was able to use that one last FlaK 36 to destroy one KV-1 per battle, at ranges of around 500 meters (it's currently destroyed four). However, trying to use PaK 38s to destroy KV-1s from ranges of around 300 meters never seems to work, even from the side.

All the KV-1s the FlaK 36 destroyed were the regular variety. I don't know how effective this tactic would be against the KV-1 (e), which fortunately has never been deployed on the main road. I was able to kill two crew members and damage the KV-1 (e) with both an artillery strike and an airstrike, so I hope that takes it out of commission for the next battle.

#43: Re: KV-1?? Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:55 pm
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I have been successful against the KV1s using Pak 41 and Pak 38 from the sides. My best killer was with a captured T70... knocked out a KV1 and 2 T34/41s in one battle. Funny thing was the T34s and KV1 both had shots on the T70... but it held out after being hit 4 or 5 times with no damage.

I am using Real Vlad... don't know if this effects how the Russians 'see' the opposing Germans.

Seems if I don't take a tank out with the first shot from a Pak or even a Stugf ... it is probably gone.

#44: Re: KV-1?? Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:15 pm
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That Hill 120 map is giving me fits. The Russians have a divisional gun somewhere every battle devastating my guys. I can't see it or find it. I go to another area of the map to do battle... then come back to find whole units destroyed sneaking across the fields. I have captured the exit VL and the entire road... but the fields still have alot of unexplored areas.

The map is sooo big... to protect my captured VLs and important positions somewhere is usually weak. Just happens to always be where 3 or 4 Russian infantry teams decide to charge me.

Good battles even tho against the AI. Cool

A couple of mental or stragegic mistakes can really take a toll on the German Inf divisions armor support. Got to be aggressive... but careful.

Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad

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