mikwarleo wrote (View Post): |
Re this mod, with full respect to the mod makers, imho I find the mod unplayable for good H2H GCs because it is so heavily weighted in favour of the germans. Ruskies stand no chance in the GCs I've played. It seems to me that something must be amiss because stalingrad would surely have been lost to the germans if things were this way in reality. |
Fiestita wrote (View Post): | ||
German doctrine and training was superior. Also german doctrine expected a large city like Stalingrad to be bypassed, not fought house-to-house. Still, I'm of the opinion that 'Fall Blau' was already a failure when 4th Panzer Army failed to encircle the vast majority of Red Army around Voronezh. They captured the city but not the guys... the same guys that months later encircled 6th Army. Still I think same as you, especially in weaponry, Red Army is in general underestimated in most of WWII games or films. It's weird that are actually the germans' films and statements the ones that take really estimate soviet weaponry. Then Dima will appear again stating negative to this, but I believe as you, that if the Whermatch would have been so powerful and better armed than Red Army, then would have won. He denies the fact that the PPSh was more effective than MP40 in close combat, but the truth is that Red Army almost won every significant street combat scenario. Examples are Tula, Rostov (twice), Stalingrad, 2nd Minsk, 2nd Kiev. As I said before: doctrine, morale, tactic discipline and officers are more important than which weapon or which scenario. |
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Re this mod, with full respect to the mod makers, imho I find the mod unplayable for good H2H GCs because it is so heavily weighted in favour of the germans. Ruskies stand no chance in the GCs I've played. It seems to me that something must be amiss because stalingrad would surely have been lost to the germans if things were this way in reality. |
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Dima is playing poker game bluff, denying the fact Soviet war machine and tactics were far better suited for urban in your face close combat. And yes the Red Army assault squads massed large teams of dedicated PPSh squads, creative usage of females for snipers and night pilot sorties, and heavy armour that easily outclassed anything the Axis forces had available. Also the USSR had vast reserves and simply overpowered the Axis with huge manpower advantages. I was especially impressed with the Red Army elite Siberian divisions that were quite comfortable in the extreme cold, whereas the Germans were not. There is a very good reason why Imperial Japan never did want to mess with those Siberian divisions that bordered their possessions in China. |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
But anyhow the Stalingrad battle was fought and won/lost on flanks where the Germans had the best units and the RA was counter attacking every other week. |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
In the city itself the German could thrust to Volga in 1 day and after that they were fighting reinforcements crossing the river and actually they could not get to Volga fully as there was huge number of arty/ATG/tank pits firing directly from the East bank. I wonder if they actually needed it as the river as supply route was effeciently cut and fully covered by the German fire. |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
For information of armchair-generals-who-know-it-all and for whom small arms win battles - Stalingrad (besides narrow 100m(?) line along Volga) was in the German hands till surrendering of AOK.6 in January 1943. And somehow stupid russkies who knew that they had a huge advantage in CQB due to their small arms didn't even dare to counter attack in the city in November.... |
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Well, 4th Panzer Army had to withdraw (some unfortunate guys got encircle though) during Operation Uranus. But the Stalingrad failure is beyond Uranus. |
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I already told, that Fall Blau already failed by mid July. |
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What about Pavlov's House and Tractor Factory? What about worker's apartments? 6th Army never controlled them fully. These key buildings were the ones that prevented Stalingrad fall. They were few, yes, but they were key. |
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The germans never gained a strong enough bridgehead to cross the Volga. That's a fact, and that's why RA arty could play havoc from eastwards. Hoth's 4th Army was probably the best Panzer Army in the whole front at that time, and it was unable to cross the Volga south of Stalingrad due to RA resistance. |
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Maybe RA tanks and guns weren't so horrible as you think |
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I've never said that small arms win wars, or that street combat is essential for success. Only pointed out that you minimized PPSh's effect in easter front, and that in small arms combat, usually the RA was better suited. |
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This simply cripple your statements about PzIII specs against small caliber soviet AT Guns |
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It also said the Russians had at least some 45mm AT guns to go along with the 37mm guns from the 732nd AA regiment, which did a pretty good number on the German HT's and PZII's, along with knocking out a few PZ III's as well |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
again, the battle of Stalingrad was decided on flanks and if there was no big counter attack of the Stalingrad front in September 1942 the city would be cleared in September. |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
ahha, that's probably why S.Timoshenko has sent a request to Stalin asking for the evacuation of the city on July 17th. |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
again, if there were no counterattacks of the Stalingrad front that were forcing the German to keep the strongest and most combat effective units north of the city there was no Pavlov's house or other places in Stalingrad remained in the RA hands. |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
btw, by November 1942, there were less point of resistant remained in Stalingrad than in Berlin in 1945. |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
why would they need crossing Volga?! |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
where did I tell that RA tanks and guns were so horrible in late 1942? |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
ok, then 3 questions: why PPSh was fielded out by the RA? |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
why didn't the Germans implement SMG armed units? |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
why didn't the Soviet Army have SMG units after WW2? |
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4th Panzer Army was situated in 6th Army southern flank during November 1942 and they were coped and forced to withdraw. |
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Well, you already pointed out that fighting for the city, wouldn't affect the war in any way. RA only had to wait german drive to cease from self starvation and then exploit their own drive. Rommel did the same with desert rats twice. |
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Without need of quoting, you just said that F-34 gun wasn't good even for piercing a Pz38t frontal plate, and that the T-34 tank did not solve it's mechanical problems until 1943. So I assume that you told so for 1942 tanks and guns too. |
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Assault Rifles became the standard weapon for infantry. AK47 fielded good rate of fire while giving more range and firepower. |
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Same as above. Even when they didn't get enough numbers, their intentions were to replace MP40 with STG44. Assault Rifle era began in 1944 |
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Again, SMG was outgunned by Assault Rifles. |
Dima wrote (View Post): | ||
Thanks DJ you've made my day again! Could you please post some more of that? Please tomorrow, so I will have something to laugh at again! |
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