How to make campaigns tougher
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Close Combat Series -> H2H Multiplayer
#1: How to make campaigns tougher Author: gravyface,  PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:29 am
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I've be putting some thought into how I play against the AI (normally, we tend to be concerned with the AI in our mods) and I think that if we could figure out a way to hide AI BG details, in both campaign/operations screens and in the battle details screen, you'd see quite a different game.

I actually covered the top 80% of the screen with a sheet of paper and just clicked 'next' from the campaign screen, without even knowing what map I was on, and took a "best guess" on what my BG roster should be.

Wow! what a difference!

I had no idea how many tanks -- if any at all -- the AI possessed, what quality, how many guns, etc. and proceeded to move *cautiously* into several 3 story houses to do some real recon, and see what I'm faced against. Normally, I just position my AT/tanks with the best line of site/best covered area and wait for vehicles to come into view to pick them off one-by-one. Once that's completed, I have free reign on the battlefield with my vehicles and infantry.
Without knowing what you're up against, you'd be surprised how cautiously you'll react, and how risky it is taking a gamble on load out -- choose too many AT teams and you could be in for a surprise if you're faced with alot of paratrooper squads, not enough and you could be wiped out by a squadron of tanks.
#2: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:48 am
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i suppose it is easier for the player to not look.
#3:  Author: LapsedPacifist, Location: UK PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:09 pm
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I agree with gravyface. Not looking makes your game behaviour much different and makes it much harder.

The problem is with ai selection of units. Depending on how the adb files have been edited the ai can make some crazy choices, leaving a dozen of its finest infantry in reserve while sending in under strength squads and weak vehicles. This varies mod to mod but even in the fantastic Stalingrad mod the ai goes for 8 (!) tanks for Soviet tank brigades even to the exclusion of a command team for one platoon!
#4:  Author: mopa,  PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:35 pm
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LapsedPacifist wrote:
I agree with gravyface. Not looking makes your game behaviour much different and makes it much harder.

The problem is with ai selection of units. Depending on how the adb files have been edited the ai can make some crazy choices, leaving a dozen of its finest infantry in reserve while sending in under strength squads and weak vehicles. This varies mod to mod but even in the fantastic Stalingrad mod the ai goes for 8 (!) tanks for Soviet tank brigades even to the exclusion of a command team for one platoon!


I agree completely, it would be interesting if there is a way to have an item report, in many case you know your facing a tank battalion or Engineers, so as the info filters down to "G2" you have some a semblance of what your up against but hardly if every the complete picture. If there is some why to get maybe limited radio traffic, or decoded info, perhaps when air strikes or supremacy is available you have the privilege of this sort of Intel, it would make for some great gaming and a lot more realism, in the sense that you would have need a level of prepaid ness etc… but I guess again its one of the games limitations. Interestingly enough it would be great if the game, AI, could react both ways, if you see them, do they see etc… ( like being only able to see part of the set up o of your opponent. And the rest being blacked out or not available).

-m BTW, Stalingrad is a fantastic mod, and cant wait for the schelt.
#5:  Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:23 pm
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why not yes, but like someone said ^^^^^^

The IA always make so big big mistake in his selection...

Look the Bg selected by default, and look the pool. I saw so many time the IA selecting 2 Tanks and 1 AT gun when the opponent come with armored Bg...
You are right knowing what units oppenent will select is an advantage. But against the IA, if you dont know what opponent IA will be will means, u didnt corrected his Bg then IA will be death very easily...
That's the problm about the Poor IA about all CC series.

Then make the good choice, play online :d
#6:  Author: DizLoony,  PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:32 pm
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I use my own system to train against the Ai. I usually load up the campaign map first in the battle editor. There I move all the enemies reinforcements so that they recieve them within the first 3 days of the campaign. I scroll trough mine..removing all but 5 or 6. As much difference in them as possible to have a bit of different gameplay since you play with so few. Usually only one has panzers(wich I use to counterattack and retake important maps..suplymaps and such) The rest are a mixup, the most disastrous be my favorites. Very Happy Offcourse Ai with everything..myself on hardest.
From then on I move tactical. But when a battlegroupscreen apears before a battle I only pick 5 units instead of 15. That way you will definately face overwhelming odds. Its very hard to cover, let alone stand form an attack, on some of the huge maps. Nomatter what you try..you will have gaps in your lines anyway. This forces you to move around allot, or use a spotterteam to do that task. And since Im a medalhunter, tempting to keep my vets alive, I dont switch my units between battles to better counter the enemy. So usually Im stuck with one co group, an AT unit, an mg, an infantery, and something optional. The tough part is, if you manage to book some neat victories with such small units, you will have legendary veterans,..but sooner or later they all die..not to the ai's tactics..but sooner or later you will get flanked..and/or overwhelmed. As starting on the tac map, I favour to start holding 3/4th of it. That way the enemy has space to deploy a whole bunch of regiments, and myself have space to pull back. Mainly because I dont wish to hold defensles positions if forced in a corner or about to be surounded/cut off.
The only difference..is when having paratroopers. I always use the random deploy the Ai places them in the first round of combat they are used to simulate the scatering effect of the drop.
#7:  Author: RedScorpion, Location: Neverland PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:58 pm
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if i end up in an asylum without online conn but a pc id play vs AI by only using 5-6 units myself per battle and choosing a good and decent set up for AI's units.
#8:  Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:03 pm
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RedScorpion wrote:
if i end up in an asylum without online conn but a pc id play vs AI by only using 5-6 units myself per battle and choosing a good and decent set up for AI's units.


The sorry AI will probably be what puts you in the asylum Smile . I've used all
your suggestions for making the AI tougher in my games. Thanks for the
tips Wink .
#9:  Author: RedScorpion, Location: Neverland PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:02 pm
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you getting trashed now eh? Rolling Eyes
#10: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:01 am
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i recently played some games with stumpy (not AI,but close) Wink
and we were just hitting begin as soon as we were hitting the battlefield,so there was no deploying of units.
was very fun
i guess u could apply this to playing the ai as well
as u dont have time to check were ur own deploy is
at start of game u r more busy looking for ur own units than enemy
so ur scrambling for a plan,at same time as discovering where ur own troops are as well as finding enemy ones at same time.
#11:  Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:20 pm
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RedScorpion wrote:
you getting trashed now eh? Rolling Eyes


Not trashed Laughing , but definately more exciting and I am able to learn a bit
more Wink .
#12:  Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:00 pm
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All these techniques to make AI harder are like shooting yourself in the foot cause they just cripple the way you play. The real challenge is online.
#13:  Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:44 pm
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mooxe wrote:
All these techniques to make AI harder are like shooting yourself in the foot cause they just cripple the way you play. The real challenge is online.


Surely you don't want a rookie like me in a online game without ANY knowledge of the game Embarassed , just trying to swish my feet in the water
a little bit before I jump headlong into the shark infested areas Wink . Hell,
I'm still learning the strategic maps and what unit does what and how well.
#14:  Author: RedScorpion, Location: Neverland PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:42 pm
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mooxe is right! i played cc5 offline since its release, completing a bunch of gcs... when i came online some year later i didnt know at all what tactics to use... so drop the ai, you wont develop at all. better come along online and ask whatever you want to know, most players will share some secrets with you for sure Wink
#15:  Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:10 pm
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RedScorpion wrote:
mooxe is right! i played cc5 offline since its release, completing a bunch of gcs... when i came online some year later i didnt know at all what tactics to use... so drop the ai, you wont develop at all. better come along online and ask whatever you want to know, most players will share some secrets with you for sure Wink



Thanks for the advice Scorpion Smile .
I not so worried about tactics, it is my unfamiliarity with the maps that is my
biggest problem Shocked . Some maps with difficult los and problems getting to
some locations has me baffled so far. Just trying to at least look them over.
Online is fine with me, I would just like a few 'fun' ones to get started.
Close Combat Series -> H2H Multiplayer


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