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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad

#1: Stalingrad mod historical finetuning Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:58 pm
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recommandations for enhancing gameplay in the future by historical finetuning:

Stalingrad Mod:

Around 45.000 russian/ukranian(Hiwis) volunteers served for the germans at stalingrad and were annhilated there till Feb 1943.Although most of them fullfilled minor, non-military jobs, a considerable number was used as police and later as "Alarmunits". Therefore if you update the mod of Stalingrad and have time, please insert them into some BGs (main appearence in 44th ID after 20th of September)

#2: Author: Dima,

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:15 pm
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PolemarchosI.,

yer post have been edited as this forum exclusivly dedicated to Stalingrad mod.

Formations consisted of ex-ussr citizen didn't take part in actions in Stalingrad till October-November.

44Inf Div is not in Stal mod at all.

#3: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:12 pm
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upps sorry... got into writting and didnt change thread...

#4: Author: sieterayos,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:32 am
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RE: fine tuning.

It looks to me that your West-East alignment of the Red Barricades factories should actually be respectively North-South. I'm assuming that the West map (north) depicts the gun assembly hall and foundries which they nicely resemble.

A couple more things.

There doesn't appear to be any special ammunition. APCR was in use by both sides I believe, for the Germans it was never in better supply than in 1942. HEAT was also available.

I've never heard of the PaK 41 75mm gun. Would like to know more if it is not actually the lePaK 41 40mm taper bore which like its little sibling the sPzB 41 fired a tungsten round.

I notice mortars don't fire from roofless buildings. Any chance of changing that?

Many thanks for this excellent mod and all the time you've put into it.

#5: Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:41 am
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Quote:

There doesn't appear to be any special ammunition. APCR was in use by both sides I believe, for the Germans it was never in better supply than in 1942. HEAT was also available.

look better. each german tank has 8SP shells that represent APCR shell.
same for most of ATGs.

in 1942 r ussians had only 45mm APCR. Was not widely used till mid 1943 and was issued only to ATGs.
in mod Gv.45mm obr.37 and reg.45mm obr.37 have SP(APCR).

Quote:

I've never heard of the PaK 41 75mm gun. Would like to know more if it is not actually the lePaK 41 40mm taper bore which like its little sibling the sBzB 41 fired a tungsten round

PAK41 was taper bore gun, with bore diameter 75mm/42mm. only abut 300+ were produced.

Last edited by Dima on Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total

#6: Author: GS_Schimpf, Location: Germany

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:42 am
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While talking bout Pak41 which I don't know either, what is this MG39/41??

#7: Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:48 am
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GS_Schimpf wrote:

While talking bout Pak41 which I don't know either, what is this MG39/41??

MG.39/41 was small series of MGs(around 1500+) issued for troops for combat tests. That was a prototype of what lately became MG.42.

#8: Author: GS_Schimpf, Location: Germany

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:50 pm
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That explains its deadliness ingame! Nice weapon. Smile

#9: Author: Antifa,

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:27 am
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Just one little thing -- I redid a camp with the Russian having supply all along the Volga. It's a problem with the CC Engine (because you cannot designate limited supply) but it's unlikely that Russian units anywhere along the Volga would have been completely cut off.

(The other thing that infuriates me about the supply issues in CC is that units out of fuel can notheless move from map to map!!)

#10: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:31 am
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russians didn't have supply all along Volga as there were only several crossings.

#11: Author: Antifa,

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:49 am
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Yes -- but it seems like they could have at least partially supplied units on the riverfront -- I mean they drove across a lake to suplly Leningrad -- but yes this all supposition.

#12: Author: sieterayos,

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:49 pm
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Yes, found the APCR, must have been too busy just trying to stay alive.

Googled a couple of refs to PaK 41 too. Both put the production run at about 150, half that you quote, Dima. Are these inaccurate?

I suspect I'm not the only one confused by the lePak and PaK 41. The second link puts the production run of the lePaK 41 at just over 300, the figure you give for the PaK 41, and its calibre as the exit calibre you also give, 42mm. To squeeze 75mm down to 42mm seems a lot to me, and much more relatively than the sPzBuchse 41, from memory 28mm down to 20mm (?).

Only relevance of this to Stalingrad mod of course is an oversupply of the Pak 41.

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~nightingale/depth_atgun.html

http://www.feldgrau.com/weaprod.html

My German is a bit non-existant, but reading between the lines I think this...

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/panzerabwehrkanonen-R.htm

...is saying that 75mm PaK 41 (150 produced) got squeezed to 55mm, the 42mm lePaK 41 (actually 40.03mm, no production figure given) was squeezed to 29mm.

#13: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:06 pm
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ye rite,

took digits from memory...

but that made u to learn some things about it : Cool

#14: Author: caribacey, Location: St Martin, Caribbean

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:29 pm
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Russian Supply:
Much came across the Volga at night, mostly small stuff.
An underwater bridge was finally built, but was ready after the time period of this mod.
http://216.198.255.120/russianpart/rusvolgacrossings.html

Pavlovs House.
Good link to the defense. http://216.198.255.120/pavlov/defenders.htm

War Diary (really a time line)
http://216.198.255.120/diary/diary_main.html

Mamayev Kurgan

The situation on Mamayev Kurgan was particularly critical in the middle of October, 1942, when two german divisions had control of the northern, southern and western slopes and the top of the hill was turned into a centre of resistance. Two ferro-concrete watertanks at the top of the hill became gigantic pill-boxes and a trench 10 metres wide and 2.5-3 metres deep was dug round them. The outer wall of the trench was furnished with machine-gun posts and the approaches were mined and covered with barbed wire.
Just how bitter the fighting was on the Mamayev Kurgan can be judged by this fact: after the Battle for Stalingrad the ground was littered with fragments of mines, bombs and shells - from 500 to 1,250 per square metre. In each handful of earth there were 7 to 8 pieces of shrapnel. In spring 1943 no grass grew on the Mamayev Kurgan.

#15: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:36 pm
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@caribacey:

so what are yer proposals?

#16: Author: caribacey, Location: St Martin, Caribbean

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:17 pm
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Oh,sorry heh.
I spent some time reading up on this battle, learnt some things I never knew.
The links are for historical interest.

I think this is an excellent mod, and am having great fun playing it.
I try to play it as historically correct as I can, which is satisfying to me. I went back to the grain elevator, and still trying to retake it, as this was a section that held out for a while.

The water tanks on Mamayev Kurgan could be made to be like bunkers, with the tenches and mines. This hill held out for a long time.

#17: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:33 pm
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Quote:

The water tanks on Mamayev Kurgan could be made to be like bunkers, with the tenches and mines.

not by 13th of September Wink

#18: Author: Antifa,

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:06 am
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Have you guys seen this site:

http://english.pobediteli.ru/

It's the most incredible free online historical presentation that I have ever seen.

It's the history of the Eastern Front.

Man this makes me want to do an Odessa or Svestapol Mod.

#19: Further Ideas - fuel and ammo status Author: alberich,

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:12 pm
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Actually, I was quite surprised when I encountered enemy units that had apparantly no ammo and no fuel. It appeared that these units were full of spunk and exhibited few limitations to their mobility.

I would guess that most veteran soldiers managed to massage their ordonance and fuel figures to some degree, in order to have at least a small "iron-ration" especially in situations where logistics weren't particularly reliable.

Is this the thinking of the developers of the Stalingrad mod or will this issue be ironed out in a future update ?

Many thanks

alberich

Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad

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