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#21: Re: German Anti-tank teams Author: Dima,

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:39 pm
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Quote:

88 Flak 37 was a superb and versatile gun. Still too high profile and weak HE shell (or not... comparing with the D-25T for example). Even though these, there were too few, they were widely spread and their crews weren't top class in most cases.

Flak37 was worse ATG than Pak40.
btw, III.FK had also a good number of Flak41 in Normandy and Sturm-KGs to fight against tanks - didn;t work.

#22: Re: German Anti-tank teams Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:51 pm
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Well it depends on the shell and range. Flak 37 has more effective range and pierces more in long distances. But in 500m, as was it the standard tank battling distance, only with normal AP is the Pak 40 superior to Flak 37.

Pak 40 pierces at 500m:
+ 132mm with AP
+ 154mm with APCR

Flak 37 pierces at 500m:
+ 110mm with AP
+ 156mm with APCR

And this is my source:
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm

#23: Re: German Anti-tank teams Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:19 pm
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Fiestita wrote (View Post):

Pak 40 pierces at 500m:
+ 132mm with AP
+ 154mm with APCR

Flak 37 pierces at 500m:
+ 110mm with AP
+ 156mm with APCR

And this is my source:
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm

Either you or source is wrong (didn;t follow link) as even according to the german tables (which are exhagerrated) pak40 could make 123@100m@90deg with PzGr39 (AP according you) so no way 132mm@500@any angle.

#24: Re: German Anti-tank teams Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:53 am
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Well in that case Flak 37 is clearly superior to Pak 40, because I've just read in "Germany's Tiger Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics" by Jentz, Thomas L. that Flak 36 and KwK 36, had these specs with AP and APCR respectively: 110mm@500m@0º and 156mm@500m@0º.

#25: Re: German Anti-tank teams Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:48 am
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Quote:

Well in that case Flak 37 is clearly superior to Pak 40, because I've just read in "Germany's Tiger Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics" by Jentz, Thomas L. that Flak 36 and KwK 36, had these specs with AP and APCR respectively: 110mm@500m@0º and 156mm@500m@0º.

Tiger and Flaks use different ammo. Cartrige is not the same.
About qouting, in Jentz EGTOWWT, he do not list APCR (PzGr 40) for Flak gun. Though he list PzGr, and PzGr39 for Flak 37.
So did Flak 37 have APCR at all?
If not, then the Pak 40 with PzGr40 is way superior to a Flak 37 with PzGr39.

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Thu May 02, 2013 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total

#26: Re: German Anti-tank teams Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:52 am
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Fiestita wrote (View Post):

and pak43 could make over 200mm of armor but that didn;t make it better ATG than Pak40 either...

the main advantage of ATG over a tank is concealment, Flaks didnt have this advantage, pak40 had.
both pak40 and flak37 could deal with Sherman and Cromwell at all combat ranges and both couldn't penetrate frontal armor of late Churchills but pak40 could wait in ambush till Churchill shows it's side while Flak37 would be already destroyed or supressed as it couldn't hide.

During Goodwood 3.FK FKG (that was actually meant and trained to combat tanks) lost 35 88mm and 70 20/37mm Flaks claiming only 20 allied tanks. Needless to say that conclusion was made that Flaks became unsuitable for "modern combat".

#27: Re: German Anti-tank teams Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:55 am
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Quote:

So did Flak 37 have APCR at all?

doubt about Flaks though Tigers did have PzGr40.

#28: Re: German Anti-tank teams Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:57 am
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Thanx Dima

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