some thoughts on the ettlebruck map (for Ernie_M)
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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 4: Battle Of The Bulge
#1: some thoughts on the ettlebruck map (for Ernie_M) Author: Static, Location: U$A PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:29 pm
    —
first off...thank you so much for your beautiful maps, Ernie!

i'm playing the vetBoB 1.13 GC with many of your maps installed

i couldnt help but notice one small issue with the ettlebruck map

playing as the americans, the germans are usually deployed on the bottom half of the map. there's a stream running across the map fairly horizontally and many times the german BG is deployed BELOW the stream, which is coded as deep water. unfortunately, the AI can't seem to get their troops across the deep water of the stream very effectively, which makes defending the map as the allies frustrating at times (i know, im a sucker for punishment)

i was wondering if it would be feasible for you to code the stream as shallow water or frozen water to give the AI a chance to come up and shoot the crap out of me while im defending. I think its a beautiful map and i dont want you to take this as criticism, its just a reaction to a problem i noticed while playing.

also, i noticed that one or two of your cc4 BoB maps are colored in as green grass with leafy trees.... are these maps intended for a different cc4 mod? i know its a stupid question but i just HAD to ask.

one more thing. what was your reasioning behind coding flammable elements in the wood debris near many of the houses? is this supposed to represent jerrycans of fuel sitting around? it certaintly makes the battlefield that much more lethal when there are mortars dropping around!

keep up the good work! your maps are fantastic and theyre a blast to play!
#2: Map questions Author: Ernie_M,  PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:05 am
    —
Hello Static!

"first off...thank you so much for your beautiful maps, Ernie!
i'm playing the vetBoB 1.13 GC with many of your maps installed
i couldnt help but notice one small issue with the ettlebruck map"

Thank you for the comments, glad to see that you are enjoying
the new CCIV maps, now let's see if I can help......

"playing as the americans, the germans are usually deployed on the
bottom half of the map. there's a stream running across the map
fairly horizontally and many times the german BG is deployed
BELOW the stream, which is coded as deep water. unfortunately,
the AI can't seem to get their troops across the deep water of
the stream very effectively, which makes defending the map as
the allies frustrating at times"


Ok, I understand...but the map has TWO large bridges for Tanks
and a small and one for infantry. Also, there is a shallow water
area centered between the 2 bridges.... and your having problems?


"i was wondering if it would be feasible for you to code the
stream as shallow water or frozen water to give the AI a chance
to come up and shoot the crap out of me while im defending.
I think its a beautiful map and i dont want you to take this
as criticism, its just a reaction to a problem i noticed
while playing."


Yes, a re-code can be done. Send me your e-mail privately
and I will send you a re-coded txt file replacing Deep Water
with Shallow water..This should help when playing against AI.


"also, i noticed that one or two of your cc4 BoB maps are colored
in as green grass with leafy trees.... are these maps intended
for a different cc4 mod? i know its a stupid question but i
just HAD to ask."


No, Good Question..The maps ARE NOT for any paricular Mod
they are for the Bulge. Rochefort map has light snow
and Rocherath has NO snow. I just wanted to reflect the
weather during time period that there was activity in these
areas. As you may know, it didn't start snowing until the 24th
or 25th. Also, I wanted to add some variety to the maps, plus,
I need a rest from all that snow. I was getting "Snow Blind"!


"one more thing. what was your reasioning behind coding flammable
elements in the wood debris near many of the houses? is this
supposed to represent jerrycans of fuel sitting around? it
certaintly makes the battlefield that much more lethal when
there are mortars dropping around!"

No, not fuel, etc. Just wood rubble/debris
What do you think would happen if a 88, 105 or a mortar hit a
large pile of wood or a vehicle? FLAMES that's what!....
MUCH more realistic IMHO.

Btw, I'm currently developing a new map called Ligneuville.
Don't miss it, it's a good play. It also has a Bridge
crossing the Ambleve river...The river is wide and deep
(the way it should be?)....I will have to take a closer
look at that map based on your comments....

Thanks again....
#3:  Author: Static, Location: U$A PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:24 am
    —
im going to give ettlebruck another shot

id like to clarify that I wasnt having problems...the AI was Very Happy i just think its a combination of the AI deploy areas and the placement of the deep water stream.

i dont think you need to re-think any of your maps. to the contrary, your maps are fantastic...i feel like they really capture the ardennes much more effectively than most of the stock CC4 map layouts. im going to try a few more fights on the ettlebruck map and if i have more problems ill PM you for the modified file. i really appreciate you getting back to me so quickly and offering a recode.

ive noticed that on a few of your maps im unable to place command teams in some buildings during the initial deploy phase. just thought id let you know. its really not a problem for me as i generally have my command teams dig trenches if im defending but someone else may find it to be a handicap.

im going to be writing a battle by battle AAR of my BoB 1.13 GC with many of your new maps. im playing as the allies. ~gulp~ im going to start posting one report a day on the board eventually. unfortunately life is just too hectic right now but ill be in good shape soon.

i thought about your reply regarding the flammable wood piles and i agree with you. its a great way to represent splinters and flying debris...in many BoB historical accounts you hear plenty of references to soldiers in wooded areas and near wooden buildings being wounded by flying splinters and such.

i was thinking that if you make any maps covering the areas that the panicked allies retreated through in the initial stages of the german attack, abandoned allied military hardware along the roads might be a good addition (but only if its historically plausible in said areas).

just some thoughts.

Ive been playing the CC series since the CC2/CC3 days and ive always thought that TTs vet mods are hands down the toughest fight against the AI. its great to have some new maps to play on! thanks for all your hard work Ernie... I (and many others im sure) really appreciate it. if you ever need help with testing feel free to let me know. I had the privelege of assisting TT with some testing of his vetmods along the way and it was a great experience. im always happy to help modders and mapmakers in any way i can.
#4: Hello Again Author: Ernie_M,  PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:05 pm
    —
Hello Static

Thanks again for the kind words and positive feedback.

"I've noticed that on a few of your maps im unable to
place command teams in some buildings during the
initial deploy phase."

I'm really not sure of what's happening here...
But if it's what I think, I adjust the building
virtices very tight when using Groof. I don't
like seeing the buildings "opening up" when
a tank rolls by..Could this be causing the
condition you speak of?..(You may not understand
what I've said here unless you've made maps too).

"I thought about your reply regarding the
flammable wood piles and i agree with you.
its a great way to represent splinters and
flying debris...in many BoB historical accounts
you hear plenty of references to soldiers in
wooded areas and near wooden buildings being
wounded by flying splinters and such."

YES and small fires here and there...

"i was thinking that if you make any maps covering
the areas that the panicked allies retreated through
in the initial stages of the german attack, abandoned
allied military hardware along the roads might be a
good addition (but only if its historically plausible
in said areas)."

If you have ALL my maps, you will see abandoned/knocked
out vehicles on some of them...(Oren, Rocherath,
Remichampagne.) Making new maps "fit in" for CC4 is a bit
difficult because of the Strat Map, it's NOT
very accurate. So I try and find a town/village that
has some historical background and will fit on the
map with reasonable accuracy.

"if you ever need help with testing feel free
to let me know. I had the privelege of assisting
TT with some testing of his vetmods along the way and
it was a great experience. im always happy to help
modders and mapmakers in any way i can."


Yeah, I helped TT too with some sounds and Div. patches
GOOD Man TT....did much research on the subject matter.
He knows his S**t!

Again, thanks for the kind words and the offer!
I don't profess to be an "Expert" map maker.
Embarassed
If you want to see some really OUTSTANDING Maps, check out
the ones that come with GJS, Bloody Omaha, and the Meuse
Mods for example..Now those guys are Experts!
Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 4: Battle Of The Bulge


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