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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 5: Invasion Normandy

#181: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:38 pm
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@ Dima

Real Red Data, say no more Rolling Eyes

The "Elements.txt" is horrible, your tanks will see some uneven ground ahead and their tracks will immediately fall off Shocked

Stwa wrote (View Post):

Too Much Laser Green For Moi

LOL, you do know that you can turn those Team Info Display Bars off Wink

The only time i have those on is during deployment and have them set on "cover", then turn them off before starting battle.

In CC5 you gotta have them on all the time so you can find your teams (because CC5 graphics are so microscopic Razz

)

CHEERS

AGS

.

#182: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:03 pm
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OK,

I admit, I am confused. Please explain.

Which laser green bars can you turn off?

Can you turn off the laser green bars over the map areas? and/or ...

Can you turn off the laser green bars on the team monitor? (where the team names are displayed)

What happens when the team gets creamed. Is the laser green changed to laser red or something?

I dont recall laser green horizontal bars in CC5, so I quess I never figured out how to turn them on.

Me thinks CCMT uses green bars on the team monitor, but they are not laser green for some unknown reason.

#183: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: southern_land,

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:12 am
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just go you your options and tunr tyhem on or off.... CC4 onwards got rid of the bars and put in little stars or cross and made them transparent, a lot less in your face looking... another substantial benefit Cc5 enjoys over cc3 Very Happy

#184: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:54 am
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Hi,

But which ones, if you noticed there are laser green horizonatal bars all over the display.

The ones I am most worried about are the horizontal bars on the team display(monitor), where the team names are.

Can you turn these off?

In CCMT, these bars (the ones in the team display) change colors as the unit loses strength. They go red, then black, when the team is all KIA.

I am worried CC3, has adopted a 16 (laser) color standard for these bars.

Also, like CC4, CCMT uses little colored crosses (NOT laser green bars) for the team icon displays that can appear next to the teams on the main map.

#185: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:32 pm
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@ Stwa

You can turn off the bars above the squads/vehicles in options as SL told you

and if you dont want to see the green of the teams display monitor, then turn the team display monitor off,
A by using F7 (or F5)

or by clicking the right hand end of team display monitor
then all that will be on screen is the battle (this is how i like it)
I will reopen team display monitor only when needed

F6 toggles minimap i think

CHEERS

AGS

.

#186: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:24 pm
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OIC,

So, to get rid of the laser green altogether, you must hide the team display. I get it.

But, I use the team display to locate units, especially when the team display indicates a team is in trouble.

This becomes much more important, when you are using the scale soldiers. I am thinking the 7.66 pixel types.

Without it, I would have to scan the map for the teams. And the smaller soldiers can actually blend in with the terrain, so they are hard to locate.

Or, I would have to be constantly turning the team display off, then on, when I wanted to monitor the health of the teams, so I wouldn't really be using it as a monitor per se.

CCMT doesn't use these wacko colors, so I am glad for that.

Anyway, about the significance of the COI screenshot that I put up several times in this thread. It was this screenshot mostly, and some others, over at Matrix, that has kept me from getting the game (COI). As I get older, I have found that I am very picky when it comes to computer games, and I can reject them based on appearance alone.

But another question.

Is CCMT really CC3 based? When atomic made CCM, did they really start with CC3, or CC5?

Was CCMT actually made from CCM?

#187: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:14 pm
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CCMT was based on CCM from what I heard but had to have the marine stuff removed.

Same question though can be asked about CCM was it based on CC3 or CC5?

You might be able to tell by listing CC3 and CC5 only features to see which CCMT has more from....

#188: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:09 am
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Silly Marines. Exclamation

For me, one of the great joys of CCMT, is its UI. So, you can see why I was somewhat perterbed when Matrix decided to not polish it off, and left numerous glitches like the slider button animations, de-brief and soldier screen alignments, and other various goofies.

But still overall, I like the UI more than any other game in CC. The ingame screen I really like and it adds a lot of enjoyment to the game.

Apart from the light (perhaps laser) blue I introduced as a mod (for the weapon icons), I really like the appearance of CCMT.

#189: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:55 pm
—

Stwa wrote (View Post):

CCMT really CC3 based? When atomic made CCM, did they really start with CC3, or CC5?

Well, that depends on wether CCMT simulates a commander with a multiple identity disorder, or if it simulates a realistic command Wink

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

#190: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:02 pm
—

Stwa wrote (View Post):

So, to get rid of the laser green altogether, you must hide the team display. I get it.

But, I use the team display to locate units, especially when the team display indicates a team is in trouble.

This becomes much more important, when you are using the scale soldiers. I am thinking the 7.66 pixel types.

Without it, I would have to scan the map for the teams. And the smaller soldiers can actually blend in with the terrain, so they are hard to locate.

Or, I would have to be constantly turning the team display off, then on, when I wanted to monitor the health of the teams, so I wouldn't really be using it as a monitor per se.

No problem, you can link 10 of your teams to your numerical keys.
If i were you, i would link the 10 teams you were most likely to lose track of.
Tanks are not hard to find and mortar teams and guns usually stay where u put them.
You just need to remember which numbers are which teams.
If you use it regularly, its easy, especially if you have a regular system, ie
Command Teams 1-3, Scouts/MGs 4&5, Infantry 6-9 and Sniper 0 (tank, mortars & guns unlinked)

Also, even without the Team Display bar, the messages still appear, and if a message appears saying a team is in trouble, just click mouse on message and your battle screen takes you straight to that team Very Happy

CHEERS

AGS

.

#191: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:17 am
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ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Stwa wrote (View Post):

CHEERS

AGS

.

Hi,

That all sounds like a beeg hassle to me. Sometimes I click on the messages, but me thinks, you are just ignoring my desire to use the team display.

Please remember, I have been playing CC for a long time same as you, and over that time, I have discoverd that I like to use the team display. I have used and tried most of the options in the tactical game, and the team display is my preference.

So, hiding the team display is not a very good option for moi.

I can understand, why CC3 guys, such as yourself, will go to any length to not use the team display. That is why I uploaded the screenie. If I had to stare at all that laser green throughout the entire battle, I would NOT enjoy the aesthetics at all.

Perhaps, the laser green can be modified into other not so laser colors. But I don't keep up with the COI mods, so I wouldn't know.

Apart from the team display, I think the overall look of COI is just not for me. I am not the first one at this site to express this disapointment.

Like I said before, I have introduced a bright (laser) color into the CCMT team display, but for some reason it doesn't bug me like the laser green COI team display.

It is hard to believe that all this will someday be replaced by a 3d engine. This is what makes CC/CCMT such an incredible war game.

#192: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:59 am
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Maybe a lot of players can live without the team display, but for me, it keeps you well informed of the status of all teams at a glance.

#193: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:28 am
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I also seem to think that CCM/CCMT started life as CC3 based.

On reason, is the Resource DLL file, which contains dialog boxes that would seem to be only applicable to CC3.

In addition, there is the occasional vehicle gaggle or advanced spinny disease, when 3 or more vehicles somehow come close to one another.

As Dima mentioned, leadership is very particular in CC3 and also in CCMT.

But who knows, I am only guessing.

But if CCMT, really has its origins in CC3, it is just one more reason for moi to not consider a license of CC3/COI. I guess I could say I already have CC3 with a team display that I like.

The team monitor is useful in situations like Fox Red below, where you want to be sure everyone is still moving up and over the cliff. A small amount of enemy fire, and the teams will take defensive postions at the top. (not what you want)

Without tank support, this map is very tough, and the Germans have a few infantry guns to help repulse any attack. Also, having the trenches set back from the cliff is just murder.

#194: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:11 am
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Other evidience that CCMT might indeed be CC3 based, is the game files themselves. I know several of the guys checked these out with a hex editor, and apart from additonal space for OP-ORDER text, the files are remarkably similar to CC3.

Now obviously, CCMT brings other tactical features that CC3 does not have, so I suppose any other improvements might have been incorporated as well. Like some improvements from CC4 or CC5.

But, I keep remembering Dima's previous post, and me thinks smoke in CCMT, and visibility too, seems to conform to Dima's observations.

So, with all that in mind, if CCMT is in fact CC3 based, then considering the tactical game alone, I would have to say CCMT is better than CC5. In so doing, I might be saying that CC3 (the tactical game), is better than CC5. IMHO, of course.

After I got CCMT, I kept CC5 on my system for several years, and I would (from time to time), go back and play a single battle or two, just as a sanity check, and so I could compare the battles to what I was seeing in CCMT. And every time, I would conclude CCMT was better by a mile.

#195: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:33 am
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Stwa,

CC4-5-CCM-CCMT = CC3 based but very much simplified and CC3 is CC2 based...

Btw in CC2 there is a check in data if units can ride vehicles or not - reminds something?

CC3 has the best data IMO, shame no CC3 modder had enough knowledge (historical) to use it fully Smile

.

CC4-CC5-CCMT has very simplified data in comparison to CC3 but still very effective Wink

#196: Re: CC5 vs CC3 Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:51 pm
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Hi Dima,

I understand what you are saying but I am still wondering.

I get the sense that Close Combat games are not borne from a single code line per se.

Each game is perhaps a clone of a previous game, but then a developer could add functionality from any of the other, presumabley tested titles.

Regarding the data files, it seems to me, that all CC titles after CC3, contain the same data elements. Just some games don't use all of these data elements, as each data workbook attempts to indicate the unused elements.

I might suggest the following pathways to the CCMT code line main body and features.

CC1-CC2-CC3-COI-CCMT. (Game files, including data, sounds, voices, effects, and the resource DLL indicate CC3 origin) This lineage must borrow code from CCM.

CC1-CC2-CC3-CCM-CCMT. (Dima has already noted several key tactical issues that may indicate CC3 origin) This lineage may borrow code from COI.

CC1-CC2-CC3-CC4-CC5-CCM-CCMT (I don't have CCM, but I don't see much evidence of CC4 and CC5 in the data files or feature of CCMT)

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 5: Invasion Normandy

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