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Force Strength Bar - You think you know?

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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 5: Invasion Normandy

#1: Force Strength Bar - You think you know? Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:38 am
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So I've been thinking about the Force Strength Bar recently.

Anyone who has played CC5 long enough knows to take the Force Strength Bar (FSB) with a grain of salt. Only through close inspection of both sides can you really determine if a battle is balanced. however, we all probably give a quick glance to the colored bar as it can give a relative idea of how balanced the BG's are before a match.

However, what does this apparently very important indicator (*the game designers must have thought that it was very, very important since they placed it on the main screen smack in front of your eyes) really mean?

Well, I don't actually know.

I think that it is only an indication of BG strength, not who owns what portion of what map. So, it may be far in favor of the the allied BG, but you wouldn't neccesarily choose the Allied side based on the FSB if they're attacking into a German held map, for example.

I'm no modder, but I assume that every unit has a numerical value attached to it (e.g. Ersatz Team 10pts, Firefly 70pts, etc.), which is where the AI Engine get's the FSB scale.

But the real question comes when weighing a single battle to an operation, and the axis against the allies.
My logic goes like this -
If you choose a battle to play, and the FSB favors, say, the Germans: You play the one battle, and then the game is forever over. The Allies never had a chance to hit the reinforce button, so the FSB clearly must not include reinforcing in it's equation of strength.

However, let's say you're playing an Op, and again the FSB favors the Germans. But now you have several days ahead of you and as the Allies you know you can hit the reinforce button, and after studying the BG's, you can pretty much tell that the Allies will win with sheer numbers, if not skill.
So, for an Op, does the FSB take into account reinforcing?

I don't know, but it doesn't seem like it would. Or maybe it does, so it is naturally faulty to rely on the FSB while playing only a single battle.

Or perhaps I'm misreading the FSB altogether.

What's your opinion?[/i]

#2: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:12 am
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oh yer it works.
and it is always for an op or gc
not a single battle.
can use for single battle
but it is worked out on total fpools.

#3: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:30 pm
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I see. So does it take into account the Allies being able to reinforce?

#4: Author: RedScorpion, Location: Neverland

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:56 am
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yah Wink

#5: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:00 pm
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i dont think it does.

#6: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:01 am
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Well, well, well. So, it's up in the air then Wink

#7: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:50 am
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it doesnt include the reinforce.
in the air nothing :p

#8: Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:01 pm
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By my experience I can say that bar force strenght refer only to "starting 15 teams" IA default of a BG. Try to create a BG with 400 tanks and 15 snipers and set as default the 15 snipers as starting 15 teams: you will see in the game that your BG will be very weak in bar force strenght even if you have 400 tanks in your force pool. If you set 15 tanks as starting teams the BG bar force strenght will be very strong for you (the opposite BG is not important: one or another one is the same thing in this example). Regards Drizzt

#9: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:51 am
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sorry i didnt notice u had replied.
but its definitely total fpool.even on single battle.
and to mac im not sure if the reinforce is included
but i dont think it is,im not going to do the sums to give u a definite
i just trust my hunch. Smile

#10: Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:14 pm
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I'm sorry, but is difficult agree for me: have you have tried to do the small example I have done?
Another example: When I have finished to re-work my mod data I have seen that in GC force bar strength was a little bit in favour of germans: I wanted it a little bit in favour of russians. Have I modified forcepools? No. I have modified starting 15 teams of some BGs: I have pull off 1 tank in starting 15 teams of german armored Bgs and I have add some guns instead of MG teams in some russian BGs starting 15 teams. At the end of these I have force bar strength a little bit in favour of russians. I think that GC and operations force bar strength are the adding of Bgs "starting 15 teams" used inside them.
Anyway is only my personal experience, maybe can be that both things (starting 15 teams, forcepools) are involved: I don't know. Regards, Drizzt

#11: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:14 pm
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Interesting. It sounds like Drizzt is on to something here since he's done the testing, but I look forward to what you find Lordy.

I doubt it could be both. And now that I'm thinking about it more, in the Op editor screen, the colored bars above the BG's heads actaully tell force strength (in reg, utah, stal, and some other mods). So I could see that the Force Strength Bar may just have to do what's on the plate at the time. However, this doesn't seem usefull as the units that you start with aren't going to be the ones you pick in the end most likely...

#12: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:51 pm
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oh i done testing Mac.nothing to look forward to
as ive already told u
but alas i present u no proof
i have nothing to prove.(well if u keep teasing i may prove it)
u follow Drzzt direction its a solid theory,just not the case as i know it.
u will realise i was right. Smile

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