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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad Der Kessel

#1: Vertiachy map starting positions Author: TheTomDude,

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:43 pm
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I just wanted to play Vertiachy in the grand campaign but the starting positions are misplaced. The russians start in the lower right corner and my troops have the rest of the map which makes no sense since I cannot defend the Gumrak and Pitomnik airposrts this way. Looks like the russians sneaked past my troops during the night. Rolling Eyes

Any way to change this??

greez

#2: Re: Vertiachy map starting positions Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:57 pm
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TheTomDude wrote:

I just wanted to play Vertiachy in the grand campaign but the starting positions are misplaced. The russians start in the lower right corner and my troops have the rest of the map which makes no sense since I cannot defend the Gumrak and Pitomnik airposrts this way. Looks like the russians sneaked past my troops during the night. Rolling Eyes

Any way to change this??

greez

Hi,

Unfortunately, NO.

CC5 has been made for the Utah beach attack by the US versus the Germans, so the AI attacking from the East versus forces defending from the west.....in ALL ALL ALL the maps!!!
I have tried everything I could to resolve this, but the problem is inside the CC5 exe file, and as far as I know, nobody can resolve this.

We have to live with it, try to adapt the .btd files as best as we can (I did it)or only mod CC5 with armies attacking from the east to the west.... Hmmmmm

Cheers
PJ

#3: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:11 pm
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doesnt sound like a CC5 exe problem.
programme doesnt take notice of which directions assaults r happening in.
more related to how the gc was made in scenario maker relating to ur btds.

#4: Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:06 pm
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If the Russian BG's arrive as reinforcements (they don't start the GC on a map) then they should appear on the map where the entry VL is located instead of the other road VL's with the Germans on the left and allies on the right.

Last edited by Tejszd on Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total

#5: Re: Vertiachy map starting positions Author: TheTomDude,

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:05 am
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pzjager wrote:

TheTomDude wrote:

Any way to change this??

greez

Hmm maybe re-placing some crucial VLs (like the roads to the only supply depots Gumrak and Pitomnik) a bit to the left of the map would solve this problem. Wink

#6: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:25 am
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my mod is based on reg CC5
here is a picture of american starting with a controlled reversed deploy(fully supplies to both sides)
where germans normally start
this took a minute to edit.

i dont have the Kessel yet,but see no differences on strat map except the 1 way vls,compared to my mod.
i dont recognise how the CC5 exe can work out left from right,east from west.

#7: Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:09 am
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ANZAC_Lord4war,

You can reverse the default sides; in Meuse the German teams are in the Alteams.adb file and the Germans by default appear on the right in a single battle.

CC5 does seem to make an assumption on the arrival direction when you make a single battle in the editor as neither side has entered the map from an adjoining map using an entry VL. In the Kessel it seems to be a similar situation as it is a meeting engagement on the 1st turn of the GC, so neither side has moved and since it is the 1st turn no BG has arrived as a reinforcement to use the Entry VL.

pzjager,

You could just make that map German owned to start....

#8: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:09 am
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i know u can put the alsteams in geteams and vice versa.
isnt that what Pzjager done to get extra support?

ill go back to what i originally said.
``doesnt sound like a CC5 exe problem.
programme doesnt take notice of which directions assaults r happening in.
more related to how the gc was made in scenario maker relating to ur btds.``

i.e making meet engagements on first day.if that is all it is,its a nice easy fix.
take a minute to fix.

#9: Re: mmm Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:05 am
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ANZAC_Lord4war wrote:

doesnt sound like a CC5 exe problem.
programme doesnt take notice of which directions assaults r happening in.
more related to how the gc was made in scenario maker relating to ur btds.

Sorry, but ABSOLUTELY WRONG.
The game systematically attacks from the east.

PJ

#10: Re: Vertiachy map starting positions Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:10 am
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TheTomDude wrote:

Hmm maybe re-placing some crucial VLs (like the roads to the only supply depots Gumrak and Pitomnik) a bit to the left of the map would solve this problem. Wink

I agree. I will modify a bit the VL's on this map, so that the russians will attack somewhere in the north-east, which will be more or less historically correct (unfortunately, however, the flags will NOT correspond to the roads)

Cheers
PJ

#11: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:20 am
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Just to summarise all what has been said by Tejszd and Lord4war:

1) Tejszd has reversed the GE and AI so that in his mod, the AI attacks from the east (the germans historically attacked from the east).

2) I did nor reverse anything. In SDK, Germans are GE and Russians are AI.

3) IF ONE OF YOU FINDS HOW TO FORCE THE RUSSIANS IN VERTIACHY AND ALL THE NORTHERN MAPS TO ATTACK FROM THE NORTH AND IF TAKES ONE MINUTE, DO IT IMMEDIATELY!!

4) Tejszd, I could maybe delay the russian attack in Vertiachy, Ostrovski, Kotluban and Orlovka on the second round of the mod (that means november 19th, p.m.). Why not? BUT THIS WILL NOT RESOLVE THE PROBLEM IN SERAFIMOVITCH, KLETSKAÏ AND RASPOPINSKAÏA WHERE, IF WE WANT TO BE HISTORICALLY CORRECT, THE RUSSIANS HAVE TO ATTACK RIGHT BY NOVEMBER 19th IN THE MORNING.

Any help is welcome.

Cheers
PJ

#12: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:19 am
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well its pretty simple to fix
u can have the bgs a map back,so the players move them onto the maps
that there meant to come from.

#13: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:26 am
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Hi;

Could you please have a look on the attachment.
I think it is a big improvement, but I really can't do more (except Tejszd idea to delay the russian attack to the 19 afternoon).

Your comments are, as always, welcome

Cheers
PJ

VERTIAC.zip

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VERTIAC.zip

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#14: Re: mmm Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:29 am
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ANZAC_Lord4war wrote:

well its pretty simple to fix
u can have the bgs a map back,so the players move them onto the maps
that there meant to come from.

Only problem: one map back for the russians, it is ouside the stratmap!

PJ

#15: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:35 am
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would making them attack make a big difference to the historical point?

#16: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:21 am
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Made some test, changed map to German controll but it still has the russian fuel barrel. Now it says "Russians Attack" on the map but they still arrives from south.

I am almost sure it is the location of BTD;s. Had the same problem with Berlin years ago. It is a pain in the ...... with those Btd:s!

Nice mod btw! Smile

Mats

#17: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:39 am
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does the btd for that map have an entry vl on it?
coz thats all u need to make it come from the desired direction.
to make suitable for the defend attack scenario,or meeting engagement.
r the bgs in the mod going to back up on their home depots?
coz a delay at one of them could force a bg to come to the new entry.

but this is fixing it in the scenario maker and btd set up

#18: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:41 am
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Sapa wrote:

Made some test, changed map to German controll but it still has the russian fuel barrel. Now it says "Russians Attack" on the map but they still arrives from south.

I am almost sure it is the location of BTD;s. Had the same problem with Berlin years ago. It is a pain in the ...... with those Btd:s!

Nice mod btw! Smile

Mats

Sapa,

I don't understand what you mean:

In the GC, the Vertiachy map is ALREADY under german control, and when you arrive at the first battle, it is ALREADY a russian attack!

Please download the last version of the btd in my previous post. You will se than now the russians attack from the north-east

Cheers
PJ

#19: Re: mmm Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:22 am
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ANZAC_Lord4war wrote:

does the btd for that map have an entry vl on it?

Yes, there is one, but the game systematically refuses to attack from it (at least when it is a russian attack: I will check what happens when it is a meeting battle)

PJ.

#20: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:33 am
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i thought the original battle in the gc was a meeting eng.
or have u added the entry vl since?

#21: Hmm,,, Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:24 pm
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Hmm

I have same problems

1. Set the North Btd at top to the Left side (at map border),

OO1OOOOO
O
O
O
OOO2OOOO

2. In South set the Btd one step to the right, and i belive that will do it.

3. Have NO btd at the MAP BORDER to the LEFT of them mentiond abow.

Hope that help

Stalk

#22: Re: mmm Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:29 pm
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ANZAC_Lord4war wrote:

i thought the original battle in the gc was a meeting eng.
or have u added the entry vl since?

Yes that is what i ment in the previous post. Even if you have an entry VL you cant be sure the game put the arriving BG on that flag....

Mats

#23: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:06 pm
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Hi everybody!

The problem is resolved.
See attached!

I will correct some other "northern btd's" as well. They will be in the V1.1 which might be released soon.

Cheers
PJ

vertiac.zip

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vertiac.zip

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#24: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:07 pm
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really?
i thought that happened only after ur bg got disbanded,and it was a 2nd attempt.

#25: Re: mmm Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:12 pm
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ANZAC_Lord4war wrote:

really?
i thought that happened only after ur bg got disbanded,and it was a 2nd attempt.

Just try it! It is OK now

PJ

#26: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:21 pm
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what did u end up doing to fix it?

#27: Re: mmm Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:50 pm
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ANZAC_Lord4war wrote:

what did u end up doing to fix it?

1) I took the VL previously located east/right/border of the map and pushed it 2 hex ago to the left: it is not any longer on the border of the map but is not so bad and anyway that's what TT did to increase the AI of his mod)
2) At the same time, I took the northern entry VL and put it in the up/right corner of the map.
3) The two exit VL's going to the airports are now south of the map (geographically absolutely correct).

AND THE RUSSIANS ATTACK FROM THE ENTRY VL!!!!!

Cheers
PJ

P.S. Anyway, if someone finds how to go to the exe file and knows how to avoid this systematic AI attack from the right, he will be honored by all the community! Perhaps Mafi could help?

#28: North and south Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:21 pm
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North and south, where it end up:

Basicly:

right.jpg

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#29: Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:26 pm
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More

leftl.jpg

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#30: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:35 pm
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Hi,

OK, I understand all that! The problem in CC is not the frontier between right and left, but between north and south!

Cheers
PJ

#31: ? Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:44 pm
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???

Its a expleanation of how a entry of Germans or Allied and up in either NORTH or SOUTH... ((as i explaind in the previous page with words, not images))

This is WHY the entry end up where they end up, and HOW to controll that in the BTD....... .. . . ...

Forget it

#32: Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:19 am
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AT_Stalky,

So the game is still placing the Germans on the left on the map but since it has to use a VL you can control location as it will use the left most VL wherever it is located (side, bottom or top). Same goes for the Russians they are still starting on the right.

Pzjager,

Making the Russians attack the map just allowed the Germans to be placed anywhere fixing their starting location but does not affect the Russian entry VL. You could start the whole campaign 1 turn earlier so that all the Russian BG's are reinforcements and use entry VL's or adjust the VL's on the starting maps based AT_Stalky/ANZAC_Lord4war comments....

Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad Der Kessel

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