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Afrika 40-41 Ready for download and play!

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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Afrika 40'41

#41: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:29 pm
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@ Ronson - Thanks for posting the pic. That is the exact one I was talking about. I have a few pics of this gun in action but I'm not allowed to publish them on this site without the AusWarMus permission. So to any folks not so sure, trust what we're saying. The gun was in action and pressed into service. Albiet not in huge numbers but nonetheless there. IIRC I didn't include huge numbers of these guns in the mod. Also they're rather under powered. You'd be better off either using them at close quarters in the city maps or taking a 2pdr or 6pdr instead if they're available.

BTW I just remembered. There was a pic of this gun being used portee in an Osprey Campaign book about Operation Compass. Here it is. See attachement.

Also for those who had questions about the size of the Chevy '32 truck the LRDG used this is a pretty good example of just how big it was. Pretty large as far as flatbed trucks go. However the graphic was three pixels too large and CSO_Linebacker (njnjr23) is fixing it for the subsequent release.

@ AT Scout - Thanks for the compliments and kudos. Yes playing as British is pretty easy against the AI. H2H play is a little better for the Italians. I'd suggest giving Salhexe's vetmod a try against the AI. The Italians should perform slightly better when controlled by the AI. IMH experience the AI is never difficult to beat even on the mods where the AI controlled side is given all the teeth a modder can give them. A simple Blitzkreig or Shock and Awe type strategy (ignoring your casualties) usually results in a VERY quick victory.[img][/img][img][/img]

UK-37mm-portee-02.jpg

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#42: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:00 am
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RD_Oddball wrote:

Thanks for the kudos Squadleader. Please see my responses to the nationalities at the RD site. Thanks again for your input on this.

http://www.reddevilscc.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=65

As far as using the vehicles on your mod feel free to do so. I would assume Neil Nello (guy who made most of the vehicle graphics) won't mind either. However it would be good to get his permission as well. THANKS FOR ASKING FIRST! The way it should be done! Very Happy

Thank you!

Jim, when you have time to edit the Nationality codes...here's a nifty Universal Names.txt Pack (made by drew):
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=605

Indian and New Zealand (Maori) names are ready for use in the pack.
Also BRNames.txt - Great Britain (except Ireland) (4333)
IRNames.txt - Ireland (2663)
UKNames.txt - UK including Ireland (6648)
SCNames.txt - Scotland (378)

#43: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:01 pm
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Thanks Squadleader! That'll help a lot. I'll be sure to include it in the update.

BTW love the banner for your mod. Reminds me of a 70's era movie poster. Very cool. Did you do the illustration?

#44: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:08 am
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No probs, Jim!
Glad you like the banner. 70s movie poster? Yup, I like old-school designs Wink

. Actually, I'm lousy at illustrations...I just slapped the thing together using various pics and paintings.

#45: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:58 pm
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Hello,

Sorry if I'm posting these in the wrong thread or if they've already been mentioned.

Some issues that have come up while playing the mod:
1. 37mm Italian ATG's draw a black circle and will not fire on Allied 6lb ATG's.

2. 20mm Italian Command Armored Vehicle's cannon draws a black circle on Vickers Carriers and will not fire.

3. 20mm Itlaian ATG will not fire on infantry as it is "saving ammo" from the start.

Thanks for the mod!
-Mac

#46: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:59 pm
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It's something that will be addressed in subsequent versions.

Currently the reason for the black LOS circles is one or all of several factors. Weapon effectiveness, settings for "primary target" and "valid target" and supply settings. For now we'll have to grin and bear it until I have time to get to the first upgrade for the mod.

Glad you guys are liking the mod despite it's minor, temporary shortcomings.

#47: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:26 pm
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But of course! Every new mod has it's minor problems (much better than major problems Wink

). Thanks for all your hard work.

Danke!

#48: Author: Tacloban,

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:10 pm
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Thank you for this mod, I know it took many long hours to develop. It is a part of WW2 I don't know much about. I now have to find a good read to learn the history.

I'm only half-way through the "60 Miles" op, but I think this new mod is terrific. The sounds are great and the game plays very well. I can write off the oversized trucks to...to...uhm...heat mirages! and the not engaging, that's just fog of war for you.

Bellisimo! Multe grazia!

#49: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:35 pm
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Thanks for the compliment Tacloban. Glad you're enjoying it.

And yes there are lots of changes that need to be made to the next update. Trucks being one. Funny enough tho the scale of those trucks is only off by three pixels. Hardly noticeable really. In reality they were just that big. Weird eh?

#50: Author: offog,

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:16 pm
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Thank for the work producing this Mod.

I would like to add some comments if I may.

The introduction of a minimum range fro the FOO I think is a good idea. In reality this would also relate to the troops on the ground but in game it would be difficult to do.

I to have had problems with the 37mm targeting a truck, an inability for which they suffered the ultimate price, and rightly so for their incompetence.

The 2in mortar can fire indirect in the game. This weapon was a line of sight weapon with very crude sighting on early models for range. On later models it was experience and a white line. So engaging targets in dead ground was difficult if not virtually impossible. I think it should be targeted as a line of sight weapon. Does it have the ability to fire smk?

I prefer the removal of the mortars to snipe but feel you may have gone a bit too far in the opposite direction. The Italian mortars seem to be far more accurate then the 3in, having lost a number of tanks to mortar fire.

On a number of maps the air attack has arrived, but failed to deliver. I know the RAF are currently having problems in Afghanistan, but was it your purpose to replicate this. I also liked the variety of CAS you have introduced.

An excellent Mod, thank you, although my wife is not so keen on you. Very Happy

#51: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:31 pm
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Quite right offog, the 2" mortar used by British and Commonwealt forces was a line of sight weapon, and was issued one per rifle platoon. Ammo supply would be a mix of smoke and HE, 2-1 in favour of SMOKE, its principle use being the covering of movement.

The FO could actually bring fire down almost on top of his own position, called Final Defensive Fire (FDF), however I agree that this would not be the usual procedure, being as the name implies a last resort.

The 3" or 81mm mortar has in reality a mimimum range of about 100m, and it would indeed be an exceptional shot that hit a moving vehicle of any kind and with an explosive content of around 3-4kg very unlikely to destroy or damage a tank of any type. The bomb is designed to splinter on impact, and these splinters are what cause the high proportion of the casualties from this kind of weapon.

I dare say that these minor problems are being addressed even as we write and that we can soon be playing some more of this exceptional mod which I think has the potential to become a world beater.

Cheers
Ronson

#52: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:43 pm
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Thanks for the great feedback and kudos Offog.

Re: 37mm - This is a problem with the weapons file which I did not do. Although I supported the concept for it the concept is not working in practice. The idea was that many of the weapons would be given shorter effective ranges to introduce a new style of play to CC that was more similar to real life tactics in the desert during WWII. Use armor and arty to buy time to allow the troops to get close enough to be effective. Along those same lines the weapons effectiveness was reduced to be more in scale with CC map sizes. Simulating loss of effectiveness over longer real life ranges. The result was that several of the weapons do not react at all and some only react at close quarters. This "bug" will be fixed in subsequent updates.

RE: 2 in mortar - some good points. I would imagine thost mortars were used in a variety of ways. As they say necessity is the mother of invention. However due to the fact that the 2 in mortars did in fact exist within some command teams making them available only in direct fire would work better for the CC engine and be more in line with how they were likely used. i.e. as you outlined.

RE: snipers - I've yet to read accounts about actual snipers used in the desert during this time period and for that matter at all. They simply did not play that large a role. Mortars however were a staple and used much more often than in any other theater. They were very effective in the desert due to the terrain and lack of cover and served the purpose they were made for. To provide direct and suppressive fire as well as smoke screens. At least the research I've done shows that. I'd be open to reading other accounts if you can find them. I'd need to see a copy tho in order to understand the nature of the account.

Re: air attack failure - RAF: lol no wasn't my intention. It's a bug that was overlooked. My apologies for missing this one. It'll be fixed in the next update.

Tell your wife she should learn to play CC and you guys will be able to spend countless hours beating the crap out of each other without ever laying a hand on each other. Then later you can lay hands on each other and the real life make up sex will be outstanding! Very Happy

I'm doleing out relationship advice like friggin' doctor Phil now. LOL Sorry couldn't resist the opportunity for a joke. Wasn't intended to be at your expense. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity. Smile

#53: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:50 pm
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@ronson - we must be posting at the exact same moment.

RE: 3in mortar min. range - Might be an interesting conecpt for CC. I would imagine the tubes elevation angle was a limitation since the front support legs would not be able to work at a near vertical angle. i.e. support leg and tube cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Physically impossible the way they were designed. Not that you'd want to fire a mortar anywhere close to your firing position. LOL Hmmm *thinks maniacal thoughts* I wonder how folks would react at that change for the mod. I'm sure some would be pissed and confused. Although 100m in CC isn't too bad a restriction in most cases.

#54: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:38 pm
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Ha ha Great minds etc. Jim Very Happy

Yes in fact the tube and legs must be at an angle to support the weapon, as when you drop a round down the barrel the propellent charge contained in the base explodes on contact with the firing pin, throwing the round up into the air and towards target. If the tube was at too greater angle it would simply fall over! causing red faces all round Embarassed

The minimum size of the propellent charge, which is set before you fire, also has an effect on the minimum range.

I'm afraid I can't remember the minimum angle that was used on the 81mm, but I doubt if it was less than 30 degrees from vertical.

There are a lot of factors to be taken into account when firing these weapons all of which affect accuracy. None of which I would like to go into in an open forum for obvious reasons, however if you would like to know more of the tech details just PM me and I'll be happy to answer any questions that I can.

Apart from the sights and fire control methods, I doubt very much if the modern 81mm is all that different to its WW2 predecessors.

Cheers
Ronson

#55: Author: offog,

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:59 pm
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You misunderstand me, I did not mean to introduce snipers, I was commenting on the ability of mortar to accurately hit and destroy guns in CC.

As for 3in I think it would be a good idea to have a minimum range to reflect the charge system. The problem is not so much the elevation as the charge/propellant. There has been one documented incident where the mortar was fired at close range. This was the action at Mirbat in Dhofar on 19 Jun 72 when a number of SAS held of Adoo rebels.

The mortar could not be elevated far enough to fire at such close range and Cpl Bob Bradshaw had to tilt it back against his chest and grip it with his thighs, while another man dropped the mortar shells down the barrel.

Ghosts and illustrated story of the SAS, Ken Connor, 2000, Cassell and Co

He references this to Anthony Kemp, The SAS: savage Wars of Peace.

For an online report of the action,

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Desert_song/Mirbat.htm

Ken Connor also mention in passing the use of petrol to increase the range of mortars. I have heard this from odd sweats but never used it or seen it done.

When looking for other info I came across this for sale on ebay,

The CH 1 is the charge number IE charge one the P+1 I would think was primary +charge 1. this would seem to indicate that it was not fired on primary unlike the 81mm. So minimum range would be 300 yds and max on charge 4 would be 3101 yds. The QE I would assume was Quadrant Elevation, so minimum elevation was 80 degrees (not far off vertical) with max using 45 degrees. On the back it also has time of flight with 13 sec minimum and 36 max.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Military-3-inch-Mortar-Range-Finder-Slide-Rule-1945_W0QQitemZ180098223527QQcategoryZ4375QQcmdZViewItem

As for minimum range for guns, I quite like the idea that when engaging non armoured targets they use small arms at close range. This may be the basis for this problem. But having Italian FOO parties firing SA when the op should be firing guns is a bit off Very Happy

especially when the target is armour and on the other side of the map. I also noticed a similar problem to the CAS with shot fired but no bang at the other end. I assumed this was to replicate duds.

#56: Author: offog,

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:28 pm
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Ronson

An FPF was not necessarily a close fire mission but a target of importance in your defence IE expected assaulting location of the enemy. Because of its importance only one FPF was issued to a fire unit and they would always be laid on the FPF when not firing on other targets. FPF or FDF are defensive fire on pre-recorded targets so the accuracy is very high.

What you are referring to is a Danger Close mission when the FOO brings fire close into friendly forces (FF) (normally he is one of them). This can be fired in the attack or defence but normally in defence as you rightly say you are about to be over run. The best documented action I have read concerning this was the Australian action at Long Tan when a Kiwi gunner brought consistent accurate fire down in protection of D coy, an action in which he received a MBE.

My point is about operational safety and not firing too close to FF in case the rounds do not land in the area that you expect them to. This takes into account your ability to map read (do you know where you are and the location of the enemy), wind, accuracy of the map reading of the gun line, (do they know where they are) inaccuracy in ammo and barrel wear.

#57: Author: Darkomen,

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:05 am
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Just a quick thanks RD oddball - the game works great and have experienced no problems. Being an Aussie, i am hoping there are some AIF troops available - come across NZ but no Aussies yet. Will keep playing and find out i suppose.

Been playing CC since it first came out, yet it is only just now that i have come across all these great mods - breathed a new lease of life into the best game(s) ever.

A few mates that i play LAN with are blown away too.

Again, great stuff

#58: Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:46 am
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Darkoman get your arse onto gs and play some more Aussies, plenty here watin for some other countrymen,

#59: ERROR in every battle Author: wrenek,

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:39 am
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Evil or Very Mad

I've got this error in every map :

Informs Direct Draw that the previous Blt which is transfering information to or from this Surface is incomplete

Close Combat Series -> CC5 Afrika 40'41

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