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Close Combat Series -> The Mess

#1: New Close Combat release Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:11 am
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http://www.csogroup.org/News.html

#2: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:58 am
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Damn. Well i hope it's moddable. Marine vs terrorists? Lame.

#3: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:02 pm
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My question with this CC release is how balanced would h2h play be? Are the insurgent forces sufficiently armed to provide some counterpunch or is it strictly a Marine training op with hunt and kill objectives with the insurgents being more of a nuisance force.

For the moment, I'm not really excited about this one.

#4: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:12 pm
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Pzt_kevin_dtn wrote:

My question with this CC release is how balanced would h2h play be? Are the insurgent forces sufficiently armed to provide some counterpunch or is it strictly a Marine training op with hunt and kill objectives with the insurgents being more of a nuisance force.

For the moment, I'm not really excited about this one.

Its not for is anyways.

Schrecken can you explain how the new orders work?

#5: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:39 pm
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Those new commands are strictly to interact with the "Civilian" population which are present in AT scenarios.

The public release version will be different in many respects.

#6: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:21 am
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Pzt_Mac wrote:

Those new commands are strictly to interact with the "Civilian" population which are present in AT scenarios.

The public release version will be different in many respects.

Any details? I hoped for a CCVI that would have the whole Eastern Front from 41 to 45 with a strategic map. It would be a huge campaign. It should also be easily moddable.

#7: Re: New Close Combat release Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:47 pm
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schrecken wrote:

http://www.csogroup.org/News.html

This could be an interesting game, but the main question remains: who are the terrorists?

I have modded CC5 with a mod which could be released one day or another featuring the french resistance against the Wehrmacht. An other interesting one could be to make a mod featuring russian partisans between 41 and 45...

In your case, I don't understand well.... I understand that this release would be a modern fight.... for instance: who are the modern terrorists: serbian or albanian?

I certainly have to know that before buying this

Best regards
Panzerjäger

#8: U S propaganda! Author: Incompetent_Commander, Location: Portugal - Alentejo

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:43 pm
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guys, don't you think this terrorist crap is going too far. The U.S. government is the major terrorist nowadays. sorry but i disagree with this mod, and all the other propaganda games that brainwash people into believing there is this evil thrat that grows with no reason to attack the "good people of America". this crap of the good guys and the bad guys has to end!

Sorry about the political statement, i was hoping for a different CC release based on historical battles.

#9: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:00 pm
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Again, this is a military training tool and will not be released to the general public. There will be a version for public consumption, but it will not be this!

#10: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:33 pm
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Pzt_Mac wrote:

Again, this is a military training tool and will not be released to the general public. There will be a version for public consumption, but it will not be this!

I absolutely agrre with independant Comander. CC has NOTHING to do with this propaganda.

I just hope that this post is now over

Panzerjäger

#11: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:55 pm
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very interesting....

all scientific essays i read about computer games used for training say it doesnt work... battlefield experrence can not be simulated... crisis management training with extremly limited sucess...

btw. it not about terrorist or whomever... it's about using a video game to teach fighting asymmetric foes (basicaly evey indirect fighting strategy) in an enviroment full of innocents.

The cynical Section
----------------------------------------------------
Completely New Gameplay...

Nationbuilding orders:

Search them,
Shut at them,
Shot over their heads,
shot in disobeying guy's leg,
trafiic control,
call in medevac,
call in medevac for medevac
stop looting
escort convoy
watch shia police killing sunni
ally with Sunni in anbar killing shia
retreat

Combat orders:

Outsource attack to private company
Fire yourself
Fire at wil
Supressing fire
Supressing Fire Apocalypse
Surgical strike for media
Surgical strike including collateral damage for media
Accidently kill reporter
Kill insurgentwho accidently killed reporter
Shoot on iraqi forces that turned on you
Destroy object with IED in it
Destroy object without IED in it
Destroy object with an old shell and make it an IED for the inhabitants
Destroy enemy rifle squad with 250.000$ cruise missile

.... (add your favorite order and we sent it in, so we can by more CC-Series reloaded beefcakes like COI )

-----------------

WW2 Easternfront mod as Searry said. With Campaign map and forcepool management !!!!!

#12: Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:09 pm
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The web site says:
A commercial version will be available to the public later this year.

I don't understand Embarassed

#13: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:11 am
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platoon_michael wrote:

The web site says:
A commercial version will be available to the public later this year.

I don't understand Embarassed

Well it means that the game for military will be modified for public.

#14: Author: PzIVE_2009,

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:03 am
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Look what happened when they gave us CC:First to Fight. That was a military sim converted for the general public. What a flop. Shocked

So too with that other Military sim, full spectrum warrior..... Sad

Why not put the effort into giving us CC2 again????? Very Happy

#15: Author: Pzt_Coyote, Location: Zwolle, The Netherlands

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:29 am
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Man we have alot of good new CC waiting down the line Smile

First the commercial version of this to keep us busy till CC6 will be released and Sulla also mentioning CC7 with a totally new engine now over at CSO forums. That combined with the rereleases aswell could actually give the CC community a great boost.

The 5 vs 5 will give a whole new twist to clan wars I'm sure, clans should start recruiting so they can field 5 men. Very Happy

5 vs 5 , 1 hour battle, clan wars...hmmm drewl, that will make for some interesting tournaments/ladders.

And AAR's with all the screenshots and writing will be a thing of the past mostly, since you can simply download the replay, I can't wait ...

And for computer simulations not working, I seriously doubt it, offcourse you can't simulate bullets and mortars landing around you with a computer, but for teaching tactics it's a great tool. Commanders can see exactely what went wrong or right and why, from a view you will never have in the field. Offcourse the real thing is different when there are mortars coming in and you took casualties, but the tactics/ execution remains the same. The commander will offcourse need other training to remain cool in battle situations and I agree you won't be able to simulate that with a computer, but to say such simulation doesn't work...noway. Just look at flightsims, you can learn a pilot to basicly fly a plane without him ever leaving the ground. You can learn him to do all kinds of manoevres in certain situations. Will this simulate the stress in combat, no hardly, will this make him experienced with the plane and the manoevres, yes offcourse it will.
Same for ground warfare, an officer with the right info, will be way more familiar with tactical situations in the field, even if he only executed them on sims before. He will still know what's important for succes and knows how to act on it.
Can you replace training only by sims, no offcourse not, but sims do give the opportunity to learn 100's of different situations at a fraction of the cost and time of when you were to train all of those situations in real exercises.

P.S. The only downside I can think off is that officers now will tell their squad with only less than 50% survivors (you won't get them back next round anyway), to "VL RUSH THAT POSITION AT ALL COST" and expect the enemy to piss off after 15 minutes of fighting Laughing

"What do you mean the enemy is still there? Did you tell them about the 15 minutes and the deploy rule? What do you mean they don't care ? It's a fucking violation of CC rules damned!!! Allright that's it guys back to GameSpy... I mean base , they cheat...!"

#16: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:24 pm
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Pzt_Coyote wrote:

Man we have alot of good new CC waiting down the line Smile

At this rate CC8 will be mentioned inthe next 4 months.

Pzt_Coyote wrote:

And for computer simulations not working, I seriously doubt it, offcourse you can't simulate bullets and mortars landing around you with a computer, but for teaching tactics it's a great tool. Commanders can see exactely what went wrong or right and why, from a view you will never have in the field. Offcourse the real thing is different when there are mortars coming in and you took casualties, but the tactics/ execution remains the same. The commander will offcourse need other training to remain cool in battle situations and I agree you won't be able to simulate that with a computer, but to say such simulation doesn't work...noway. Just look at flightsims, you can learn a pilot to basicly fly a plane without him ever leaving the ground. You can learn him to do all kinds of manoevres in certain situations. Will this simulate the stress in combat, no hardly, will this make him experienced with the plane and the manoevres, yes offcourse it will.
Same for ground warfare, an officer with the right info, will be way more familiar with tactical situations in the field, even if he only executed them on sims before. He will still know what's important for succes and knows how to act on it.
Can you replace training only by sims, no offcourse not, but sims do give the opportunity to learn 100's of different situations at a fraction of the cost and time of when you were to train all of those situations in real exercises.

Flight sims cannot be compared to simulating a battlefield with 100s of troops. I am not sure what exacly they use CC for in training, but I believe its very limited and does not substitute the experiences of field exercises. I would like to see some USMC or RAF document stating in detail how its helped. I would also like to know exactly how much time they spend playing CC and under what circumstances.

#17: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:12 pm
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I agree with mooxe.... Flightsims work, combat simulations dont..

#18: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:04 pm
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Cleary this Close Combat is a working fightsim. Obviously it isn't meant to replace any "real", on the ground training. The military isn't going to suddenly announce that they no longer need field training as this great fightsim fulfills all requirements of the armed forces.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who seriously plays CC hasn't taken away or developed numerous tactical skills - military and non military types alike. And someone in both the US Marine Corp and the RAF felt that it had some real teaching advantages, and I wouldn't argue with that.

If I was training a group of new officers and had a chance to teach them a few tricks using this unique tool... you're damn right I would.

#19: Author: Pzt_Coyote, Location: Zwolle, The Netherlands

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:44 pm
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mooxe wrote:

http://www.2ndbn5thmar.com/ccm/ccmtoc.htm

This should give you abit of an idea of what the marines train with CC

#20: Author: Senior_Drill, Location: 22134

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:23 pm
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pzjager wrote:

Pzt_Mac wrote:

Again, this is a military training tool and will not be released to the general public. There will be a version for public consumption, but it will not be this!

I absolutely agrre with independant Comander. CC has NOTHING to do with this propaganda.

I just hope that this post is now over

Panzerjäger

Ok. Try to get this through your French head.

1. The screenshots are of a military training sim, not a commercial release.

2. A commercial release will have the features. No one, absoulty no one said it will not be historica.

3. The French lose.

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

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