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#1: Alternate AAR for Treetop op Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:51 am
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ANZAC_Blackstump v Pzt GenEraser at Thaon
After a quick look at strat i realised that Hermanville vl would be a priority to hold a supply line, so decided to stack the south for a push towards this vl(this battle was fought morning of second day by the way)

Shot at 2007-07-25
GenEraser started with a probe up north which ran into a ambush, meanwhile i had snuck two sections down south without incident untill they put there heads over hedge opposite Hermanville vl. A MG opened up from building, so i snuck a scout car down the same line and opened up on them , to be promptly hammered by atg hidden in building, keeping the mg and atg busy with the two sections i used a cromwell with los to knock out the atg then rushed it south and hung over the hedge to batter the mg, smoke and charged the troops across to secure the vl... troops came under fire from stug rushing down to protect Hermanville vl... i pushed my cromwell back up to meet the challenge on oppisite side of hedge from the stug hoping to get a side shot on the advancing menace, the cromwell crew went in to panick mode as the stug came into view and did the dance of death... stug fires first round into crom from side, all ok so far crom returns fire with no effect... i reverse to get cover from hedge.. stug fires again and immobs the crom... by this time im mortaring the stug .. crom gets of second shot, and the stug goes up, by this time GenEraser is pushing thru in the centre of map running into ambush after ambush.. i dont press the issue here as i have limited troops holding the north and centre so stay content to mortar troops trying to attack south.. im content to sit and hold my objective... for future reference on this map... HERMANVILL VL WILL BE A SUPPLY LINE SO HOLD IT... also that crom is immobilized..thanks GenEraser for a good fite

Shot at 2007-07-25

#2: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:08 pm
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Nice AAR, I always love to read the story from the other side. Thanks for posting it Stumpy.

Anyone wanting more info on Operation TreeHouse, go to the following link. You should find plenty of Pzt on GS to fight.

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3960

#3: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:41 pm
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Great AAR, Stumpy. Always a good read.

Anyone else who feels like posting an AAR after fighting, please feel free to do so in this thread.

#4: Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:47 pm
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Well i thought this was an open op to be played by the community against the Pzt clans newer members while being tutored by the older heads of Pzt... i understand that it was to include strat moves for the opposition to insure a fair play and correct procedure for the brits... however this didnt happen this afternoon when i saw the posted strat moves...if this was to be an open op then it cant work with Pzt making the calls on both sides this way... im sure your CO understands my position... it makes the op unplayable and unwinable(if theres such a word ).. from the communitys side.. hardly fair from my point of view this op should be played in house rather than in the open community, i understand that strat moves should be made from experience... but the extra move and the game i played put the brits back on an even footing... to be disallowed and to be replayed with a weaker brit position seems a bit one sided on Pzt's behalf.. im probably out of line by making the extra bg move that was needed for brits but the game i played and support provided proved i was right... ive got the photos to prove it..if this is a training op for members then i say let the community make the strat moves right or wrong and suffer or enjoy the outcome...no offence intended to the Pzt clan but you mite see im a bit pissed off...( especially since i just spent an hour setting up my AAR only to be told my previous game was forfeit...) hope you understand where im coming from.. but wont be "helping out any more "

#5: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:21 pm
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Stumpy
I fully understand your frustration with our backtracking your strat move.

It is my responsibility to insure that there is some semblence of order on the Brit side and we fully considered an attack into Carpequet.

The Carpequet move that you thought was doing the Allies a favor would have resulted with the following deploy:

With the Brit 147/49 attacking from this deploy against a FULL STRENGTH I.22/21 German Armored BG. I felt it was suicide, would have resulted in a disbanding, and would have left Caen completely unguarded.

You made the comment that the CC Community should be allowed to do strat to their own choosing. I fully appreciate you being a Vet and knowing what you are doing and realize that had you scouted this deploy in advance you might have chosen otherwise.

But I have already had to reverse another strat where the new Pzt player failed to read orders and engaged another green player resulting in a screwed up strat move for both the Germans and Allies. And it left a sizeable hole in the Allied side. So we can't always assume that the allied side will be taken care of UNLESS I maintain some control over it as well.

My apologies for having to replay your Tailleville battle but we just didnt think the attack into Carpequet was a good idea for the Allied side. The other option there would have been to attack the Brit 6/6 AB. But having no armor and facing an Armored BG we thought is prudent to leave them in a defensive posture as well.

Pzt_kevin_dtn

#6: Author: Pzt_Wruff, Location: Pzt Befehl Hauptsitz

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:53 pm
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Kevin clearly demonstrated why you wouldn't want to do that move Blackstump.

I'd just like to touch on 1 or 2 things if I may.

Blackstump wrote:

i understand that it was to include strat moves for the opposition to insure a fair play and correct procedure for the brits... however this didnt happen this afternoon when i saw the posted strat moves...if this was to be an open op then it cant work with Pzt making the calls on both sides this way... im sure your CO understands my position...

Our primary goal in this training operation is to get our recruits and rusty vets some good games in a team environment. Getting them accustomed to following orders, posting aar's, sharing a file, etc...
The strat which you were asked to please follow was well considered and correct.

I'm quite impartial towards the outcome of this op. Like I told you last night, I want our recruits weaknesses exposed now rather than later. They do too! Playing experienced vets like yourself is a big help to them, but there must be some cohesiveness in the allied (public) strat, so I've asked that strat be followed according to what Kevin prescribes and done with either another Pzt member or a community vet that will follow the prescribed strat.
Anyone who's played a public gc is well aware of the disadvantage of the public side due to attrition and lack of team cohesion. We're compensating for that by prescribing allied strat in proper fashion.

I hope you see now looking at the above screenshot that kevin posted for you that your move would likely resulted in disaster for the allied front.
Quite good reason we said to NOT do it.

Quote:

the extra move and the game i played put the brits back on an even footing... to be disallowed and to be replayed with a weaker brit position seems a bit one sided on Pzt's behalf..
...no offence intended to the Pzt clan but you mite see im a bit pissed off

Hey! Your game in Tailleville was great! Good fighting. That strat really wasn't good though stumpy. Smile

This is a training op. Better to just replay the strat move battle than have the allied east flank blown wide open with nothing in reserve to cover. Your move would have in effect ended the op for the allies, and we'd rather keep it competitive so that these guys can gain the experience they need. So they're simply redoing the strat as was already prescribed and refighting that Tailleville battle.

Quite to the contrary of what you're implying stumpy, Pzt command is covering allied strat so that it does maintain some assemblence of order.

Quote:

hope you understand where im coming from.. but wont be "helping out any more "

I hope we've made it clear where we're comming from.
Hopefully you'll continue with the op. We really do appreciate people like you giving our recruits a good fight.

Also. I ask that if you have a gripe with our good gruppe in the future that you address it with us, not the public.

Thank you

Pzt_Wruff

#7: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:41 am
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Public GCs are always lost anyways. Its like fighting a really bad losing battle. If the hosting side is deciding whether or not the strat moves made by the public are right or wrong then its doubly lost. There is not much element of risk or suprise to be taken by the public. I was actually intending to play also, but knowing that my strat moves would be potentially second guessed by the enemy, thats a huge turn off. I dont think I can play an Op like that either Stumpy.

As its Pzt's Op, its ultimately thier decision (obviously). I can't see how many people would be interested in a game where thier strat moves are ultimately decided by the opposing side though. Unless they were not warned before hand or are desperate for a game. Its probably best for another Pzt clan member to be in charge of strat for the public side, who has no knowledge of the strat for the Pzt side.

#8: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:54 am
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As stated before, this is a public Operation. We all know the downsides of a public gc or op, which is the strategic moves on the public side are poor as they lack cohesion, and often times there is no consideration for the long term as the best units are chosen first, without thinking about what is needed down the line.

Obviously, with these kind of built-in issues, this Operation isn't about who will win, but what we can teach our new guys.

But that's not to say we have thrown everything to the wind, as we are trying to create somewhat of a realistic challenge. When Pzt high command makes a decision about a strat move for the Brits, it's with the intent to make the best move possible in order to challenge our offiziers as much as possible.

Letting anyone make strat moves will, ultimately, create more of a disunion as the war goes on with the opposing side. The Brits have no real leadership, no discussion, no cohesion. Those of us watching this war from the topcan make the best strategic decisions.

Having the vets in the community participate is a fantastic opportunity for our new guys to learn. There have also been a lot of new comers playing this as well. We sincerely appreciate it. This is a fun operation and everyone is having a good time with it.

There was no disrespect intended to Stumpy who was doing what he thought best. It was really just a matter of a decision already being made, with considerations for strategic possibilities down the line. Plain and simple.

So please, take this opportunity to have some fun and whoop up on some new guys who are trying to learn a thing or two.

Cheers,
Mac

#9: Author: Pzt_Wruff, Location: Pzt Befehl Hauptsitz

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:46 am
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Word up Mac. And word up everybody who's up for a fun organized game. That's what we do. You don't like it then don't play it. Simple.

Mooxe. I honestly don't care at all what you think.

Stumpy don't shit because you didn't follow the rules. You were told before hand.
Following the incident I said to you "No biggie stumpy. No problem." Smiled and said goodnight. End of story. No questions asked.
But here we are wasting my fucking time again.

Let's have some fun with Close Combat. Not all this boring fucking shit lately spewed from the mouths of the ignominious malcontents.

#10: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:30 am
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I read your reply and I wonder why this thread had to take the direction of insults and abusive language. Ignominious malcontents?? If anyone is showing any dishonour at all it would be you with your extremely abusive tone you have taken in this thread and a few others recently. You made your point after the first sentence but you had to go on... really thanks for those comments.

#11: Author: Pzt_Coyote, Location: Zwolle, The Netherlands

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:34 am
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Well maybe it has something to do with you coming here telling how you think the operation is pointless and actually insulting the people who played in the OP. While we made it clear from the start how this public OP for new Pzt recruits would be played. We can't help it if people don't care to read the goddamn rules and than accuse us afterwards we changed the strat for the benefit of Pzt, while anyone with half a brain can see how that deploy in Carp would totally screw the allies in tactical and strat layer, if anything we safed the allies from certain defeat, which is why we didn't want the public todo the strat in first place. Since the public will never put in the time needed to get a good overall view on the strategic situation and really I don't expect them to do that either. So no Mooxe we wouldn't second guess your strat movement, we wouldn't let you do the strat movement in the first place, again, read the rules before you think about joining an OP. Anyway there are enough "desperate" people around to keep the show on the road. Rolling Eyes

Thanks for your interest anyway ...

#12: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:08 pm
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Pzt_Coyote wrote:

Well maybe it has something to do with you coming here telling how you think the operation is pointless and actually insulting the people who played in the OP. While we made it clear from the start how this public OP for new Pzt recruits would be played. We can't help it if people don't care to read the goddamn rules and than accuse us afterwards we changed the strat for the benefit of Pzt, while anyone with half a brain can see how that deploy in Carp would totally screw the allies in tactical and strat layer, if anything we safed the allies from certain defeat, which is why we didn't want the public todo the strat in first place. Since the public will never put in the time needed to get a good overall view on the strategic situation and really I don't expect them to do that either. So no Mooxe we wouldn't second guess your strat movement, we wouldn't let you do the strat movement in the first place, again, read the rules before you think about joining an OP. Anyway there are enough "desperate" people around to keep the show on the road. Rolling Eyes

Thanks for your interest anyway ...

I'll let you know that I am not coming here. You are coming here. I own this site. That aside... Anything posted in these forums is open for debate and constructive criticism. I did read the rules, and I only just now seen the follow up post about strat. If my post is offensive then I apologize. I atleast offered a better way to conduct strat moves.

If you want to flame some more, I can just move this thread to the mess. There you say anything you wish and go as far off topic as you desire.

#13: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:15 pm
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OK gentlemen, let's everyone take a deep breath and relax.

No more of this going back and forth, as there has been enough of that lately.

Let's just show some newcomers to the game that it's fun and a challenge and there is a supporting community.

And leave it at that.

#14: Author: dehm,

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:49 pm
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Last night i had the pleasure to play against Totenkof Wink

The deploy area was very short, less than normal, and this limits my posibilities.

The battle began very interesting, i defeated the germans in the center and took the house there while in the north fire over a 88 and finally destroy it, no before lost one 6 pounds.

After these great minutes... the massacre. In the south me soldiers destroyed a vehicule and a enemy tank but another german tank supress me infantry, kill them, destroy one sherman, latar another one and a flame team sent to finish it.

I got crazy and didn't stand as i should... so Totenkof win a great battle disbandig the BG.

#15: Author: Pzt_Wruff, Location: Pzt Befehl Hauptsitz

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:43 pm
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Wow, that's a hell of a tough squeeze you were in there dehm. Nice report. : Cool

Look at the deploy that dehm was facing here folks. This taken from Totenkopf's AAR @ Pzt HQ. :eek3

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