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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad Operation Circle

#1: SOC Stratmap Graphics Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:27 pm
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Hi to all,

SOC is now under final development. All the maps are painted and coded, the datas look fine, somesounds have been ameliorated etc....

I came then to this old question: How/why to improve the Graphics of a winter mod stratmap when this sîlly CC5.exe (made for summermods) kills everything you make when you attempt to do a CC5 wintermod?

I developed SDK with this in mind.
Then, SOC.

Then, Some of CC players complained about the "poor" SDK stratmap.... Only a few of them, I believ, did understand that the problem was not PJ's lazyness but a real problem, inside the C5.exe.

OK. When moding SOC, I came to the conclusion that, even not good, I could make a 3D like Stratmap for SOC. I worked a lot on it and, even not completed, I can show you a part of the result. The maps holded by Germans are a little blue, the maps divided between are a little red, the russian ones are, OF COURSE, green.

Just let me know if you like this kind of graphics and, ultimately, KILLLLLLLLL these stupid CC5 developers who didn't know that WW2 was as well in.....WINTER.

Cheers
PJ

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#2: Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:54 pm
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Nothing but absolutly bloody briliant! Very Happy

Well almoast.
Never the less, I like it a lot! Very Happy

Keep it!

#3: Author: HistoryTeaches, Location: Germany

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:41 pm
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awesome!

i demand a new strat map like that for SDk now! Razz

#4: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:46 pm
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So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks? Laughing

#5: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:33 am
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Yesss...the stratmap looks a lot better using 3D graphics! Keep up the great work!

#6: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:23 pm
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looks good. I like it.

#7: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:29 pm
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Searry wrote:

So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks? Laughing

Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically

PJ

#8: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:51 pm
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pzjager wrote:

Searry wrote:

So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks? Laughing

Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically

PJ

That's a little understrenght division there. Didn't the german panzerdivision consist of 300 armor and some panzergrenadier and support units(sdkfz's)?

#9: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:34 pm
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Searry wrote:

pzjager wrote:

Searry wrote:

So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks? Laughing

Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically

PJ

That's a little understrenght division there. Didn't the german panzerdivision consist of 300 armor and some panzergrenadier and support units(sdkfz's)?

How can you say that this regiment is overstrenght when you haven't seen anything about the mod??????

It is easy to criticise, much more difficullt to built something.

If you knew the Stalingrad battle, you should be aware that some german units still have tanks and some vehicles by january 10th... Very little ammo, very little fuel...as it will be in the mod.

If you have something to suggest and if you know the Stalingrad battle better than me, just contact me and make the mod by yourself.

#10: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:35 pm
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Not too sure of the 'paper' strenght of a Panzergrenadier division, but I thought that in the field they included one tank or assault gun battalion, occasionally this would be increased to 2 (this is for the line divisions as opposed to the elite or SS variants). Approximate strenght of a battalion would be 100-120.

However during the preparations for the planned breakout operation 'Thunderclap', the purpose of which was to link up with the forces of Mansteins 'Winterstorm' relief operation in mid December '42, it was estimated that there were 70 tank/assault guns in the entire 6th Army. These had enough fuel for approximately 12 miles of travel, and limited ammunition.

One would hardly expect this situation to have improved a month later. therefore a VERY limited number of German AFVs seems fairly resonable to me.

Cheers
Ronson

PS. coming back to subject......maps look excellent Smile

#11: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:20 pm
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pzjager wrote:

Searry wrote:

pzjager wrote:

Searry wrote:

So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks? Laughing

Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically

PJ

That's a little understrenght division there. Didn't the german panzerdivision consist of 300 armor and some panzergrenadier and support units(sdkfz's)? <-Ok this was irony/sarcasm, whatever. It was supposed to make you think about the losses they've had.

I didn't critisize you. Just maybe our english skills clashed and made you think i'd critize you. After all you're french and i'm finnish.

Last edited by Searry on Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:26 pm; edited 2 times in total

#12: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:21 pm
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ronson wrote:

Not too sure of the 'paper' strenght of a Panzergrenadier division, but I thought that in the field they included one tank or assault gun battalion, occasionally this would be increased to 2 (this is for the line divisions as opposed to the elite or SS variants). Approximate strenght of a battalion would be 100-120.

However during the preparations for the planned breakout operation 'Thunderclap', the purpose of which was to link up with the forces of Mansteins 'Winterstorm' relief operation in mid December '42, it was estimated that there were 70 tank/assault guns in the entire 6th Army. These had enough fuel for approximately 12 miles of travel, and limited ammunition.

One would hardly expect this situation to have improved a month later. therefore a VERY limited number of German AFVs seems fairly resonable to me.

Cheers
Ronson

PS. coming back to subject......maps look excellent Smile

Completly agree with you. On December 24th, when Winterstorm finished, there was something like 60 to 70 tanks in the Kessel. We can be sure of that when reading a lot of different sources.

On January 10th, it is generally admitted that the total number was around 40 to 45 (not much lower compared to the number of 24 december, but the period between the two dates was relatively calm for two reasons:

1) The russians were preparing Operation Circle and were grouping their forces all around the Kessel.
2) At this time, a lot of russian forces were engaged in the Small Saturn Operation, so they were less active on the Kessel Front.

I have made the mod so that the total number of tanks will be on the Veteran level of difficulty (the medium one) at about 40 to 45,as historically. On the recruit level,they will be somewhat more numerous, and less numerous at the Hero level.

Of course, what the level is, the ammo level will be low (25 to 30% of the normal).

I don't see here something which is against the historical reality.

Last, I would like to recall to all of you that making the 6th Army too weak on the January 10th is an historical mistake, if not a legend. Don't forget that:

- During the first 3 days of Circle, the Soviets lost 26000 men and HALF of their tanks.

I don'' believe that they were killed with Swiss knives....

Cheers
PJ

#13: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:01 pm
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Searry wrote:

pzjager wrote:

Searry wrote:

pzjager wrote:

Searry wrote:

So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks? Laughing

Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically

PJ

I didn't critisize you. Just maybe our english skills clashed and made you think i'd critize you. After all you're french and i'm finnish.

Hi friend Searry,

At least we are both of us.....( ), ...at least not english. Let's forget that. I hope that you have read my answer of today regarding the German forces in the Kessel by january 10th'43. You can see that SOC will be historically (not politically!) correct. You can be sure of that.

Regarding the PzD36, once again, it was a very very weak regiment on january 10th but still existed!!! If you have some suggestions to rename it -ideally with a Kampfgruppe with the Kampfgrupe BG Icon-, .....go for it! SOC will feature 4 KG's and I am not against a 5th one....if you can provide me with the picture of the leader. (If you are still ready to be one of my Beta-testers, you will understand why I need the picture of the KG leader...!)

That's all for now. I will finish this sratmap this weak -I hope-! Then after, it will be the time to improve some graphics and write the btd texts.

The beta mod should be available very soon now. If you are still on the tracks, just let me know. Polemarchos is obviously on the top of the list, with you it will be 3 (I exist!)

And if 1 or 2 more of you want to be part of the testing team, just send me a PM.

Cheers to all of you and don't forget: Critisism is OK IF there is a suggestion behind.

Panzerjäger

#14: Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:20 pm
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pzjager wrote:

Cheers to all of you and don't forget: Critisism is OK IF there is a suggestion behind.
Panzerjäger

I'm looking forward to this mod, it will be the next CC5 I play, I know it's still a few months away but that's OK.

After dowloading it I'll make sure to post a negative, fact incorrect criticism about something you cant change Rolling Eyes

#15: Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:32 pm
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Had the mod been done originally for CCIV instead of CCV you would have been able to edit each and every aspect of the shadding for the controled areas and then I wouldnt have mentioned /complained about it.

You could even have a totally different graphic if you wanted.

Smile

p.s.

What you have looks good though,how can anyone really complain?
It's not like anyone else is spitting mods out like you are Jager.
You are a machine.

#16: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:31 am
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platoon_michael wrote:

Had the mod been done originally for CCIV instead of CCV you would have been able to edit each and every aspect of the shadding for the controled areas and then I wouldnt have mentioned /complained about it.

You could even have a totally different graphic if you wanted.

Smile

Platoon,

I TOTALLY agree with you! CC4 is the best of all the CC versions and SOC would have been even better with CC4.
BUT I CAN'T EDIT A STRATMAP in CC4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AFAIK, there isn't any program to edit a CC4 stratmap!!!

If I am wrong and if you know how to do it, tell me. THen:

1) SOC will be the best mod ever
2) PM will be the developer

What else?

Cheers
PJ

p.s.

What you have looks good though,how can anyone really complain?
It's not like anyone else is spitting mods out like you are Jager.
You are a machine.[/quote]

#17: Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:38 pm
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Yes I can tell you how to do it.

PM the developer?
I surly hope that doesnt mean: Platoon_Michael will make the mod?

The programs one needs to import a new strategic map into CCIV are:
StratEditFinal for CCIV
And Mafis RTBTool.

The readme file is a little sloppy in that Aetius was able to provde me with new information after I had written it.
I just never got around to editing the readme file to read correctly.

But it does work.
As you can see I just used insiginas star/cross to display the controled areas and not shadding them red/green.But you could use anything as CCIV has seperate images to be displayed for the stratmap

http://www.closecombatseries.net/Hosted/platoon_michael/

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#18: Author: pzjager, Location: Paris

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:33 pm
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platoon_michael wrote:

Yes I can tell you how to do it.

PM the developer?
I surly hope that doesnt mean: Platoon_Michael will make the mod?

The programs one needs to import a new strategic map into CCIV are:
StratEditFinal for CCIV
And Mafis RTBTool.

The readme file is a little sloppy in that Aetius was able to provde me with new information after I had written it.
I just never got around to editing the readme file to read correctly.

But it does work.
As you can see I just used insiginas star/cross to display the controled areas and not shadding them red/green.But you could use anything as CCIV has seperate images to be displayed for the stratmap

http://www.closecombatseries.net/Hosted/platoon_michael/

Hi,

This looks absolutely fantastic but, as you say, I don't understand anything.

Friend, if you or the people who made this want to make SOC a CC4 mod, I totally agree, but I just need help. Of course, you will not be the developer. But you have to know that I am not a specialist in computers....

I can do all the job, but just help me...

Cheers
PJ

P.S. Once again, CC4 is the best of all. We all know that.
P.S.2. WHY this Sratmap Tool has NOT been used until now???? I don't understand!!

#19: Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:16 pm
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I can help you with using the tools but I couldnt do anything with creating graphics.

I dont even have CC installed on my puter right now.
The map size limit for CCIV is 3600X3600
It couldnt be done until Mafi created his RTBTool.

But now is allllllll better.

I wouldnt change tactics now since your so far ahead of the game with CCV besides only a few of us play CCIV

#20: Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:48 pm
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Hey Jager If your interested send me a PM

Other wise I would assume your not interested.

Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad Operation Circle

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