Close Combat Series :: View topic - Could you please entirely delete the below topic re hitler?

Could you please entirely delete the below topic re hitler?

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Close Combat Series -> The Mess

#1: Could you please entirely delete the below topic re hitler? Author: shasadou, Location: Moscow

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:15 pm
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this might insult one`s senses. \\besides in Russia degenerates calling themselves as skinheads tend to celebrate this day with killings, beating, violance an so on//i dont understand your tolerance in this respect!

#2: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:02 pm
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it has been locked, delete is in discussion...

i agree with you

#3: Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:10 pm
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I guess it's better to dont delete it and keep post online to show to
eveyone what we dont tolerate. If we delete it, someone may post again
about same case.
I know this kind of post can be hurt for many reasons ...
And as Polemarchos show you, we dont tolerate it

#4: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:54 am
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Ahhah. People take internet too seriously. It was an obvious troll.

#5: Author: king_tiger_tank, Location: the Band and State of Kansas

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:57 am
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ZAPPI4 wrote:

I guess it's better to dont delete it and keep post online to show to
eveyone what we dont tolerate. If we delete it, someone may post again
about same case.
I know this kind of post can be hurt for many reasons ...
And as Polemarchos show you, we dont tolerate it

I agree. What if something like this happens next year? just delete the thread again then again, and then keep on doing this. Eventually one of these will spark a nasty debate, causing a split in the community (Maybe).

#6: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:21 am
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king_tiger_tank wrote:

ZAPPI4 wrote:

That would be cool! Forum internet drama. Oh i love it.

#7: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:49 am
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well, in its core, it is a question about virtue ethics. Not an internet drama.

no post on CCS will be deleted if referring to Hitler. no user will be banned for such a thing either. But we have to admit that the promotion of a person, who was delighted by mass murder and genocide and is commonly recognized as the reason mankind created the UN Human Rights declaration in 1948, is unethical. This means that celebrating the birthday of Adolf Schicklgruber (real name) , and by that a man's life that cannot be taken as a paradigm for any of us, even if meant as joke or zynically, does not fall into the realm of freedom of speech.

Last edited by Polemarchos on Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

#8: Author: shasadou, Location: Moscow

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:13 am
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dear polemarchos, my opinion is the following: adi hitler is the symbol, so to say, an appelative name for all what is contrary to humanity - he violated the natural rights and liberties of millions of people (the most horrible one - is the right to live), let alone the freedom of speech..

and this is not just UNETHICAL, it is beyond law (there are cases in Russia when young stupid men got enjailed for the nazi greeting or zig heil or whatever favourable recall of the nazis). the crimes of nazi regime are widely recognised and any indulgence to the attibutes of nazis (which is also adi) is not just mere lack of manners but rather a crime also.

i incline to think that european tolerance promotes neonazi and other radical ideas in europe..

#9: Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:29 am
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Shasadou

I feel 100% sure CCS and almost all of users of CCS feels exact like you do.
I think Zapp and Pole have said that clear.
You want to delete the thread, yes its tempting to do that, we all hovered over the delete button in that thread, I can promise you that.
But what message does it send if it’s deleted? Its gone… No message at all..
Now that thread is locked

and said that type of “celebration” is not tolerated in CCS, don’t that send a better message then total delete of the thread?

Vacuum don’t send any messages and don’t state anything.

But be sure, I agree/feel the same emotions when I saw that thread.

There you have my standing on the issue.

#10: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:13 pm
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good point shasadou... in my eyes ethics and nomos (law) are either the same or that ethics supercede laws. Ethics creates laws, not vice versa.

I know what u talking about, i live in Germany. ironically sometimes even restrained people like me however, are getting mad about the anti-nazi laws in Germany/Europe even if limited.

Two examples:

1) Selling a picture of Adi on Ebay for instance is blocked, selling one of Stalin isnt...
2) A t-shirt manufacturer was sued by a german court for using the very same pic Stalky posted. Explanation: Promotion of the swastika.... -> There u see, law is imperfect.

shasadou wrote:

i incline to think that european tolerance promotes neonazi and other radical ideas in europe..

exchange tolerance with democracy!

It is considered that a sane democratic system allows an extreme left and an extreme right to exist, so that both wings can discredit themselves. I find this a very plausable approach as long as one puts limits on them.

p.s. I added u to my ICQ, if you wish join!

#11: Author: shasadou, Location: Moscow

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:46 pm
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1. ok, i agree with you.

so then could you please make the thread "sticky" that for it is always in the top of the forum? will it then provide enough message?

2. offtop:
polemarchos, western democracy is not the relevant model for Russia, authoritarian governance is histroically adequate model for Russia. such model is ignorant enough to completely suppress too left trends and carefree enough to let people live freely.

imho: the drawback with western democracy model is that theoretically a too left radical formation can come to reigning (due to support of population), in practice: Austria, and to some extent France and Scandinavian countries. although the western democracy won`t ever be close to the mentality of the Russian people.

dunno how it is in Germany or other western countries, but the Russian legislation prosecutes under law all the faschi, nazi, extremist, etc "political" formations.

p.s.
havent been to icq for ages =)

#12: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:59 pm
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shasadou wrote:

havent been to icq for ages =)

lets move discussion to msn, then?

#13: Author: shasadou, Location: Moscow

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:05 pm
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well, i m not with hotmail.com anymore =)

my mail is shasadou [at] mail [dot] ru

please write i ll react duly

#14: Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:42 pm
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Quote:

imho: the drawback with western democracy model is that theoretically a too left radical formation can come to reigning (due to support of population), in practice: Austria, and to some extent France and Scandinavian countries.

What radical left goverment has Sweden, Danmark, Norweg, Finland and Iceland had you mean?

#15: Author: shasadou, Location: Moscow

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:52 pm
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i believe currently the goverments in those countries are not very radical =)

however the public sentiments seem to transform there.

btw i meant Norway Sweden and Finland as scandinavian countries

#16: Author: Therion,

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:03 pm
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Polemarchos wrote:

2) A t-shirt manufacturer was sued by a german court for using the very same pic Stalky posted. Explanation: Promotion of the swastika.... -> There u see, law is imperfect.

So, Nazis got bored with Jews and now oppress Hindus?

#17: Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:19 pm
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shasadou wrote:

i believe currently the goverments in those countries are not very radical =)

however the public sentiments seem to transform there.

btw i meant Norway Sweden and Finland as scandinavian countries

Not sure what you know about Sweden and Finland and Norway...

Through out the time since 1917 Sweden has been social keynesian economics.
But, If you imply the politics has moving in "left" direction during the last 32 years.. . Then maybe you shall take a new look.. And if one look the last 18 years.... Liberalism has been the way it moved to.
The "left Goverment" unde IC and GP, was so right it was more right the previous Right goverments. And the right goverment under CB was even more right, and then the GP2 goverment was v liberal, and GP3 was same. The curent FR goverment is a tru liberal goverment... So I have no idea what you mean..

#18: Author: shasadou, Location: Moscow

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:54 pm
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Stalky, no offence please.

these are the words of some speaker from Sweden`s embassy in Moscow in october last year, when Sweden embassy held an open meeting re Raul Vallenberg mainly, and besides that she also touched the topic of xenophobia in modern Sweden due to recent heavy flows of migrants, she mentioned that this problem was becoming more and more actual - since Sweden had never known this phenomenon.

her words are very suprising to me as Sweden has always been admitted to be one of the most liberal countries in this respect, well, people tend to exaggerate things when it touches them deeply.

(by "left" i imply radical views - surely depending on what party is actually in power, this can be radical right as well)

#19: Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:31 pm
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If you base your statement about Sweden on one what (2 minutes?) TV news reportage...

And yes, the fate of Raul Wallenberg is a deap cut in Swedish people and in Jews to.
And Rauls work to save jews in Hunagy, was revarded by the soviets by them taking Raul to Moscow and there he whent up the smokestak of a Soviet Smersj shimny...

Radical... left - Right.... Sweden... Radical... What exactly is radical in Sweden?

#20: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:42 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote:

Radical... left - Right.... Sweden... Radical... What exactly is radical in Sweden?

only angry viking riot mobs drinking grog Wink

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