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#1: My CCMT mod in progress. Author: Therion,

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:04 pm
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So, I decided to write something about the mod that I'm working on.

Features:
-More sane weapons stats.
-New units.

The mod is almost finished, the only problem is that I can't make AP ammo work.

Here are some screens from infantry engagements:

1. Urbanian Stryker Platoon vs. Montanyan Motorized Rifle Platoon.

A full Rifle Platoon from FM 100-63.
A Platoon Command team, 3x Rifle Squad a MG Squad, Sniper and RPO.

Urbanian Strykers get destroyed in a rain of RPGs.

Urbanians learn that being exposed to a MG Squad and two Rifle Squads (3 GPMGs and 4 LMGs) a bad idea.

Rifle Squad and a MG Team destroy an Urbanian Fireteam, while a Sniper destroys another one.

Two Rifle Squads and a MG Team, supported by two MG Teams prepare to finish off the enemy (supposed one Fire Team + MG Team)...

Which turns out to be a full Rifle Squad and two MG Teams...

I'm out of Rifle Squads and forced to wait until the time runs out...
But I win Very Happy

.

2. Urbanian Infantry Platoon vs. Centralian Horde.

Centralians now have a solid core of veterans of many wars that plague that region supported by hordes of fanatical recruits.

Fanatics are good to keep the opponent busy with human wave attacks while more competent units take their positions.

Units in cover are hard to eliminate from afar.

Well supported assault is a key to success.

Urbanians are crushed in a bloody final assault.

One of two snipers that were guarding my left flank.

Blood of martyrs is the price of victory.

They killed many, but it was still not enough.

Any comments?

#2: Author: Neural_Eclipse,

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:15 am
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Sounds awesome, will be sure to try it when I get the game.

Btw, why not release it as is right now? You can always update it and I am sure people would appreciate better values anyway.

#3: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:50 am
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Also see this thread for another Data mod

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1737972

#4: Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:03 am
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Neural_Eclipse wrote:

Sounds awesome, will be sure to try it when I get the game.

Thanks

Neural_Eclipse wrote:

Sounds awesome, will be sure to try it when I get the game.

I'm planning to release it soon without the vehicle AP thing as it seems that it needs an .exe patch.
I'm putting some finishing touches to it Wink

#5: Author: spinel,

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:37 am
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Therion wrote:

Neural_Eclipse wrote:

Sounds awesome, will be sure to try it when I get the game.

Thanks

Neural_Eclipse wrote:

Sounds awesome, will be sure to try it when I get the game.

I'm planning to release it soon without the vehicle AP thing as it seems that it needs an .exe patch.
I'm putting some finishing touches to it Wink

Therion, why don't we combine our mods together?

If you test out the mod I worked on (referred to by Schrecken, now revised):

http://www.mediafire.com/?41mbdjnym5v

you will find that the AP shells most certainly do work. I do agree that the pre-existing data is not exactly very good (e.g. BMP-3 slower than T-80 slower than T-72, when in reality T-72 slower than T-80 slower than BMP-3) but I don't know enough to fix all the data (especially infantry weapons and squads). I think if we pool things together we could get something good going.

#6: Author: Therion,

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:46 am
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spinel wrote:

Therion, why don't we combine our mods together?

Hmm...
I'm not really interested in working with RL countries/formations.

spinel wrote:

you will find that the AP shells most certainly do work.

Did you use RL penetration values?

#7: Author: spinel,

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:49 pm
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spinel wrote:

you will find that the AP shells most certainly do work.

Did you use RL penetration values?[/quote]

Somewhat. There are a few problems to using real life values since:

> All the "big" nations come out with new shells every 3 years or so which improve on the earlier shells, and I'm not crazy enough to create a separate weapon for every 3 years of real life; and
> All the major MBTs these days have a different resistance to AP and HEAT weapons and since CCMT doesn't model this it is impossible to adjust for the values.

So I assumed the M828A2 shell of the M256 gun can penetrate 600 mm at long range (a fair value given what is on Wikipedia) and used TOAW III ratios to interpolate the other tank guns (e.g. D-81TM). For medium distance I double and for close distance I triple the values (kind of like Steel Panthers?). It's hardly totally accurate but the end result seems reasonable.

#8: Author: spinel,

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:58 pm
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Therion wrote:

spinel wrote:

Therion, why don't we combine our mods together?

Hmm...
I'm not really interested in working with RL countries/formations.

That's no problem, I suppose (if you are still interested in "real" weapons) we can still use a common weapons.txt/vehicles.txt file and/or share graphics?

#9: Author: Therion,

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:28 am
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spinel wrote:

> All the "big" nations come out with new shells every 3 years or so which improve on the earlier shells, and I'm not crazy enough to create a separate weapon for every 3 years of real life;

Hmm...
On the other hand, I doubt all the OPFOR nations would have the newest shells.

spinel wrote:

> All the major MBTs these days have a different resistance to AP and HEAT weapons and since CCMT doesn't model this it is impossible to adjust for the values.

Yeah. I wonder how they could make this game without taking that into account. Would adding different armour/warhead types be really so difficult?

spinel wrote:

So I assumed the M828A2 shell of the M256 gun can penetrate 600 mm at long range (a fair value given what is on Wikipedia) and used TOAW III ratios to interpolate the other tank guns (e.g. D-81TM). For medium distance I double and for close distance I triple the values (kind of like Steel Panthers?). It's hardly totally accurate but the end result seems reasonable.

It would explain why it chooses AP ammo.

I never heard about tripling or even doubling the penetration of APFSDS projectiles on close range.

spinel wrote:

That's no problem, I suppose (if you are still interested in "real" weapons) we can still use a common weapons.txt/vehicles.txt file and/or share graphics?

No, thanks.

#10: Author: spinel,

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:14 pm
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Therion wrote:

spinel wrote:

> All the "big" nations come out with new shells every 3 years or so which improve on the earlier shells, and I'm not crazy enough to create a separate weapon for every 3 years of real life;

Hmm...
On the other hand, I doubt all the OPFOR nations would have the newest shells.

You are right. More variables to deal with. It would however be insane to have to create a new weapon type for say, North Korean 100mm gun (1970), North Korean 100mm gun (1990), Iraq 100mm gun (1980), etc.

Therion wrote:

spinel wrote:

> All the major MBTs these days have a different resistance to AP and HEAT weapons and since CCMT doesn't model this it is impossible to adjust for the values.

Yeah. I wonder how they could make this game without taking that into account. Would adding different armour/warhead types be really so difficult?

Perhaps the reason why they never put in AP shells to begin with? Twisted Evil

To be serious though, it shouldn't be hard for the programmers to program a different resistance to AP and HEAT shells as that merely requires reading a different line in the .txt files.

Therion wrote:

spinel wrote:

It would explain why it chooses AP ammo.

I never heard about tripling or even doubling the penetration of APFSDS projectiles on close range.

A good criticism. I have no reliable data on the range dependence of the penetration, so I use what I found here from a Steel Panthers forum:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=422769&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

I will readjust the values once I find something better.

Therion wrote:

spinel wrote:

That's no problem, I suppose (if you are still interested in "real" weapons) we can still use a common weapons.txt/vehicles.txt file and/or share graphics?

No, thanks.

Too bad then. Good luck with your work.

#11: Author: Therion,

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:40 pm
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spinel wrote:

Perhaps the reason why they never put in AP shells to begin with? Twisted Evil

To be serious though, it shouldn't be hard for the programmers to program a different resistance to AP and HEAT shells as that merely requires reading a different line in the .txt files.

I guess they didn't care.

spinel wrote:

A good criticism. I have no reliable data on the range dependence of the penetration, so I use what I found here from a Steel Panthers forum:

I saw some data in games like TacOps and IM1A2 Abrams.
Tacops has 680mm on 0m for 120mm and 640mm on 2000m
IM1A2 has 790mm on 0m and 680 on 1000m.

I saw only one example that shows the loss of energy of APFSDS rounds:

3VBM3/3BM9/10

Entered service in 1962. The projectile is Maraging steel.

* Country of origin: Soviet Union
* Projectile dimension: 410 mm 10: 1 L/d
* Projectile weight (including sabot): 5.67 kg
* Projectile weight: 3.6 kg
* Muzzle velocity: 1800 m/s
* Muzzle energy: 5.8 MJ
* Penetration: 245 mm at 0° at 2000 m, 80 mm at 60° at 2000 m, (energy at 2000 m is 4.2 MJ [1])
It's about 1/5 in 2000m which isn't very much.

spinel wrote:

Too bad then. Good luck with your work.

Good luck to you too.

#12: Author: meade95,

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:59 pm
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Great looking mod - Any chance you could email me your "workbook" where you have made adjustments / tweaks to the actual weapons values.

I would like to use them.....your work......inside of the tweaks / adjustments I'm working on....

Thanks.

#13: Author: meade95,

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:23 am
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Also - Do you have an ETA on when this will be out?

Thanks again -

#14: Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:07 am
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What tweaks are you working on?

As for ETA...
I'm going to release the first version on Monday.

#15: Author: meade95,

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:41 am
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Therion wrote:

What tweaks are you working on?

As for ETA...
I'm going to release the first version on Monday.

Nothing too much - Just adding in some new units / teams (for my liking) and some small weapons specific tweaks -

Would like to incorporate my tweaks / addon's ....along with your much improved / updated weapons DB mod -

#16: Re: My CCMT mod in progress. Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:26 pm
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Therion wrote:

So, I decided to write something about the mod that I'm working on.

Hi therion,

ever considered moding for CC5 as well? I could need a hand on Crete and we could also consider a pocket mod about the polish thermopylae...

pm me if their is any interest

#17: Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:21 pm
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Hello polemarchos.
I used to mod CCV and CCIV, but I'm not interested in modding them anymore.
It takes too much time and you know what I think about its campaign system.

#18: Author: Polemarchos, Location: Polemarchopolis

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:29 pm
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Therion wrote:

Hello polemarchos.
I used to mod CCV and CCIV, but I'm not interested in modding them anymore.
It takes too much time and you know what I think about its campaign system.

i see, well thought i might ask you to test my chances. Sad

When ever you change your opinion, feel free to inform me.
I am always open to cooperation with other modders, since I recently
started modding and sure could need a hand to tackle all planned mods.
thanks for the reply.

#19: Author: Therion,

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:34 am
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Ok, so as I promised here's the first version of the plugin.

It requires the patched version of CCMT and I recommend using the Elements Mod with it.

It's far from being perfect (as in not all weapon type names being correct and some parts of weapon data not being revised or being based on speculation.) or finished (like in not having new icons or new original graphics for new units), but it's playable now (and more like a real CC game than CCMT) and I'm going to continue working on it.

Changes:
-Changed weapon ranges, and penetration and damage of some (err... most) weapons to make them more sane and more like in earlier CC games.
-AGLs lost their indirect fire ability.
-Added new units, some based on OPFOR To&E, some not, including command tanks for OPFOR.
-New tanks - Centralian T-34/85, T-34/100, M4A3 Shermans, Montanyan T-100 (fictional - T-80 with 140mm cannon).

I included a few scenarios with mod units.

I hope you'll like it Smile

CCMTR.zip

Description:

Instructions:
Change the extension of the file to .ccm, put it in plugins folder and install with SysCon.

Download

Filename:

CCMTR.zip

Filesize:

1.75 MB

Downloaded:

397 Time(s)

#20: Author: Therion,

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:12 pm
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Hey, is anybody playing it?
I'm considering making a new version and I don't know if there's a point in releasing it...

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Modern Tactics

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