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Close Combat Wacht am Rhein Preview at Wargamer

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#21: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:37 pm
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To hear a guy who has been beaten by a game he rarely if ever plays means nothing. That portion of the review is good for outsiders, but we know the AI sucks no matter what. The Germans on day 1 are going to overpower you on many maps I am sure. Its mostly because they have heavy tanks and the American only have 57mm ATG and Zooks.

Lets not please confuse superior forces with superior tactics!

#22: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:45 pm
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I was about to add... he was an inexperienced player. (had to eat breakfast first)

As an experienced player you will have an enhanced experience as compared the original CC4

#23: Author: flick,

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:47 am
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So a bit better then? That's a shame, but if it was possible to get the AI we want, I think they would of done it by now. I don't think it's from a lack of trying.

At least the modding aspects look a lot better.

I just hope that the AI attacks faster, I hate waiting for ages for an attack.

#24: Author: Therion,

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:01 pm
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mooxe wrote:

To hear a guy who has been beaten by a game he rarely if ever plays means nothing. That portion of the review is good for outsiders, but we know the AI sucks no matter what. The Germans on day 1 are going to overpower you on many maps I am sure. Its mostly because they have heavy tanks and the American only have 57mm ATG and Zooks.

Lets not please confuse superior forces with superior tactics!

That's why I no longer read (p)reviews nowaday... wait, I stopped believing them about 10 years ago.

#25: Author: bkp_mik,

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:42 pm
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I believe all we have to do is to wait for WAR to play h2h on it Smile

#26: Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:57 pm
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Any chance we can get some map previews?

please?

#27: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:20 pm
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platoon_michael wrote:

Any chance we can get some map previews?

please?

Well, i dont dare to post anything more.. Embarassed

/Mats

#28: Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:27 am
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Glad to see some work being put in on this re-release.

Hope this one doesn't include the infantry (which refuses to act as infantry) with the now-popular 'enemy spotted'.

Maybe one of you should make sure that when you try to use an infantry unit it does what it's supposed to, just a thought.

#29: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:00 am
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Troger wrote:

Glad to see some work being put in on this re-release.

Hope this one doesn't include the infantry (which refuses to act as infantry) with the now-popular 'enemy spotted'.

Maybe one of you should make sure that when you try to use an infantry unit it does what it's supposed to, just a thought.

You mean the new 'Girlie Soldiers' AI enhancement introduced to the CC engine since CoI?
I'm sure this will be included Smile

#30: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:47 pm
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With this "great Mad

" Ai improvement i suppose i could only use half of the teams in the BG each battle if i should click on them 50 times Sad

Mats

#31: Author: IronStringbean,

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:28 pm
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squadleader_id wrote:

Troger wrote:

You mean the new 'Girlie Soldiers' AI enhancement introduced to the CC engine since CoI?
I'm sure this will be included Smile

I'm assuming this "enhancement" was added to take care of the dreaded AI "crawl of death" tactic. I wonder if they could code it so it only applies to the AI. Either that, or only to the standard move command; so if I want to get my squad the hell out of a house thats under fire, I can use the move fast command, or sneak command if I want them to crawl away under cover.

#32: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:18 pm
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IronStringbean wrote:

squadleader_id wrote:

Troger wrote:

You mean the new 'Girlie Soldiers' AI enhancement introduced to the CC engine since CoI?
I'm sure this will be included Smile

AI crawl of death can be crudely fixed by coding Infantry as Vehicles...used in most VetMods.
As for the 'girlie soldier' AI...not sure why this 'enhancement' was introduced...maybe to make the game harder? The enemy AI still sucks...but gameplay is harder because you have to keep clicking on your units and babysit every move...brilliant! Wink

#33: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:29 pm
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Quote:

you have to keep clicking on your units and babysit every move

I don't

maybe you sit your guys out in the open where they attract fire.... try short "Move fast" orders to get them to safety.

#34: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:43 pm
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The thing is...with the old engine...you can assign movement waypoints...and your squads/AFVs will execute the order like real soldiers. They will only abort movement if under heavy fire or if they lose a leader. With the 'new' AI...waypoints are useless...your units will abort movement when they see the enemy.

Short move fast orders? Sounds like micromanagement to me Wink

#35: Remake? Author: jscusmc69, Location: USA

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:58 am
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All in all looks good would like to see some dif maps like Fishbach and that area where 116th PZ got my dads tanks-D co707tk Bn on Skyline drive 17Dec 1944. This is another must have in the series. Razz

Marines NEVER retreat they ADVANCE in a different direction!!
jscusmc69 RVN

#36: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:17 am
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Quote:

Sounds like micromanagement to me

Close combat is not about assigning orders to your teams then walking away for half an hour to come back and see the result.

Micro managing is telling individual soldiers where to stand, when to reload and what to aim at.

#37: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:46 am
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Micromanagement compared to the old system...a lot more clicks then the old version.
So then...what's the use of waypoints in the new version when units will abort movement at the first sign of enemy activity? You said yourself that to play the new version it's best to assign short "move fast" orders.

I know WAR is done and just waiting release date...so there's no way to fix the new 'girlie soldiers' AI. CoI and CCMT shipped with the 'girlie soldier' AI and not too many people complained about it right? Wink

#38: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:50 am
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Quote:

You said yourself that to play the new version it's best to assign short "move fast" orders.

No I didn't

I said it's the best way to get out of the line of fire.

I use way points effectively by not running my men through territory controlled by enemy machine gunners..... you may play the game differently, let's call it RAMBO style.... but suffer the consequences by having a lot of dead men.

Quote:

and not too many people complained about it right

correct!

#39: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:16 am
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The 'girlie soldiers' AI is just poor game design...any way you put it.
The reason why not many people complained about this in CoI and CCMT...'cause most CC fans don't really care about them or play them that much Very Happy

And don't exaggerate...you don't need to run your 'girlie men' Rambo style through enemy MGs...can't you accept that the 'girlie soldier' AI just makes simple waypoint movement almost impossible with soldiers ducking and aborting movement at the first sign of enemy activity.

BTW, in the old games...playing Rambo style will always result in a lot of aborted movement...remember that in the old version men will duck and abort movement orders when under heavy fire, losing a leader etc...realistic enough. In the new version...playing any style will get the same results. Unless keep clicking and herd your girls in short movement bursts. Or what Shreck seems to enjoy...moving your girls in friendly territories only...avoid the enemy at all costs because if they see the enemy...the girls will duck and abort everything Very Happy

#40: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:52 am
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I haven't seen this.

Lot's of Operation Mars games this week where assaulting troops met with great success.

Russians are resurgent and may yet march on Vya'zma.

You should try playing Cross of Iron on-line a real blast.

But... it's almost time to reset the server as the timeline has expired.

****Note: Men in the open get shot at... use buildings, terrain and smoke to conceal your movements.

***Note 2: If you are caught in the open use short move fast order to reach nearby cover while suppressing the opponent with mortar fire.

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Wacht am Rhein

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