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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Gold, Juno, Sword

#1: Love the mod but... Author: gravyface,

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:18 am
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6 pounders are unreal... I destroyed 3 Tigers from 100-150 yards with one gun.

I had no idea that Hitler's germany had invented Adamantium 20 years before Wolverine! It's no wonder they coated their Panther As in it! Unstoppable! Rolling Eyes

#2: Author: bkp_mik,

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:11 pm
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Played with computer? Try killing 3 tigers with 6pdr in a head to head game.

#3: Author: gravyface,

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:23 pm
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How would that make a difference? There's obviously something wrong with the armor table.

#4: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:09 am
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I think the point Mik is making is that a human opponent would not place 3 valuable tanks in a position where they could be destroyed by an ATG.

They would most likely have infantry cover in front to spot the gun as soon as it fired if not before and the tanks would be a greater distance from it so that it would not get a one shot kill at such short range.

As to the actual ability to kill a Tiger at short range it would be possible, IIRC the 6pdr was able to KO Tigers in Tunisia, and that was before they started to use APDS as an Anti-tank round, which was standard issue in Normandy.

Cheers
Ronson

#5: Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:28 pm
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Being a ATG on 57mm, it's a very good ATG.

It was able to destroy most German tanks, even some heavy ones, especialy with APDS and other newer powerful AP rounds.

Personaly, I love the 6pdr ATG! Very Happy

#6: Author: bkp_mik,

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:13 am
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Ronson is right.
Gravyface, tell me, how did u kill those tigers? Sideshot, rearshot, front armour penetration? I may only assume they were killed with side- or backshots. Few human players would allow you to do such a slaughter without reaction. Even if u killed one tiger, one would not give u another and another one by one just to see them die. Probable gun site would be covered with mortar or infantry fire and then not one but 2 or even more tigers would come together to get rid of the gun. Thats h2h life, no easy work bud.

#7: Author: gravyface,

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:02 pm
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Two were frontal, one was the side. I'm not questioning tactics -- we all know the AI is poor -- but the AT capabilities of the six pounder.

#8: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:10 pm
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Penetration of armour is one of the most debatable topics I've ever come across....coming a close 2nd to Life after Death! Smile

However here are some figures for you, they can only ever be an approximation of performance, as no 2 shells or the pieces of armour that they strike are identical. So allow a good 10-20% error factor here.

The 6pdr ATG used in Normandy in '44 used 2 types of AT ammunition...

Armour Piercing Cap Ballistic Cap (APCBC) Mk9T......This fired with a Muzzle Velocity of 2,800 ft/sec could achieve a penetration of 88mm of armour angled at 30 degrees at 1,000 yards.

Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (APDS) Mk1T.......This fired with a higher MV of 4.000ft/sec and could achieve a penetration of 146mm of upright armour or 130mm at 30 degrees, again at 1,000 yards.

So a frontal penetration of a Tiger at 100-150 m is not that far fetched.

Its worth noting that the accuracy of the APCBC was better than that of APDS and the latter ammunition was used only if there was any doubt over the formers ability to pentrate.

Two types of 6pdr were service issued, the MkII and MkIV, the difference between them being that the MkIV had a slightly longer bore 112 inches or 50cal against 96 inches or 43 cal for the Mk11. The Mk IV also featured a muzzle brake.

I hope this information is of some use to you Smile

.

Cheers
Ronson

PS. The first Tigers to be KO'd by 6pdrs of the RA in WW2 were 2 of 501 battalion in Tunisia during the Kasserine battle in 1943, these were hit in the flank at 500yds by 2 troops of 72nd AT Regiment RA (part of 6th Armoured Divison) near Pont du Fahs.

#9: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:05 pm
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Quote:

these were hit in the flank at 500yds

That's approx. the full width of a CC map.

Wouldn't that set the cat amongst the pigeons?

#10: Author: gravyface,

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:01 pm
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Ok, I'm sold... Very Happy

Now what about the Panther As? Over a course of 4 turns on one particular map, I lost 9 Achilles with the 76mm QF* against two Panthers in question. Repeated flank shots, several front shots, and one rear/side shot could at best immobilize two already immobile (out of fuel) Panther As. One by one, the two surrounded Panthers would slowly rotate and knock out my Achilles like clockwork.
Of course, only the mighty 6 pounder was able to eventually dispatch the armor, along with a lucky PIAT shot; The 76mm seemed to have no stopping power at all.
* what's up with Rate of Fire anyways? It seems nowhere near avg. shots per minute, regardless of type of gun. This isn't just GJS either -- seems all mods and originals suffer from slow RoF. Is this a game balance/playability decision?

#11: Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:16 am
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gravyface wrote:

The 76mm seemed to have no stopping power at all.

Isn't this why they refitted the Achilles with a 17 pounder?!

#12: Author: Cathartes,

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:26 am
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6pdrs can kill Tigers and such because of APDS rounds. These rounds were available in limited supply for Brits but not American guns until later in the war. If I remember correctly (and it's been quite a while) we gave 6 pdrs about 1/2 dozen rounds, and after they are gone in a battle that 6 pdr will be generally useless against a Tiger or a Panther.

Close Combat Series -> CC5 Gold, Juno, Sword

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