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#1: America in a prolonged conventional war Author: Therion,

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:59 pm
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So, I'm wondering about one thing. What would happen with US Army if it was on a conventional war (non-nuclear) with a superpower?
I'm mainly wondering about soldiers - what kind of replacements would be sent to combat if there was a high level of attrition?
I'm wondering mainly about equipment, training, organization, etc?
Are there any plans for such event?

#2: Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:36 pm
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They would lose. Soldiers would wet their pants.

How many "tough" wars have americans fought?
Not a single one.
Just against countries like Grenada, Nicaragua etc.
In WWII they came to Europe when russians were almost finished the job.

#3: Author: Dauphin,

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:52 pm
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Its rather the doctrine rather than the men that is faulty. Cassino and Anzio are both brilliant example.

#4: Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:04 pm
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Tippi-Simo wrote:

They would lose. Soldiers would wet their pants.

Very funny Rolling Eyes

Tippi-Simo wrote:

How many "tough" wars have americans fought?
Not a single one.
Just against countries like Grenada, Nicaragua etc.
In WWII they came to Europe when russians were almost finished the job.

Korean War?
Vietnam War?

WWII was a tough war for USA. It wasn't as hard as eastern front, but then, there were less German front, but predicted losses for troops landing in Normandy until the end of war were 75% of soldiers. In practice some divisions had over 100% of losses in 2 months.

Now, returning to the topics?
What would green reinforcements be like?
Would they be in the same squad structure?

#5: Re: America in a prolonged conventional war Author: Nembo,

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:04 pm
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There is the Selective Service System which could be used to mobilize, draft, men between 25 and 18 years of age. 21 being the first group called up. The Selective Service is expected to deliver the first batch of men to the military within 193 days.

Training and Organization I would imagine, would follow standard US military procedures. As for equipment I would imagine they would be issued with what was being made or in storage.

#6: Author: mortis,

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:02 am
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I love how everyone forgets about America's involvement in the Pacific Theater of Operations. How soon we forget that the while the Marine Corps pretty much made its name here, the US Army also fought with distinction as well. And fought against one of the most feared close assault forces in the world. While the Russians definately had it harder against the Germans, the Russians were only fighting the Germans. So, before you go off and say the American fighting man will piss his pants in a "real war" against a "superpower", I want you to do several things. First off, define a real war (anytime you are shot at enmass constitutes a realwar - I served in Panama '89, Liberia '90 and GW I '90/'91) and secondly name another superpower in the world (who the Chinese? You have to be able to project power to be considered a superpower, and the Chinese can't find their collective butts right now.) ? Cuz' near as I can tell Finland isn't anywhere near coming close to that definition. And I think the last time the Finns had a fight one their hands, and did fight with real distinction, was the Russo-Finnish War.

Next time, answer the mans question instead of injecting your non-educated opinions in a thread that doesn't warrant it.

To the original poster of this thread. There is a whole wealth of information on this very topic if you do general searches on TO&E's and the like, but make sure you narrow your search parameters within the USMC Training Command and the War College as it pertains to the US Army General Staff.

#7: Re: America in a prolonged conventional war Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:05 pm
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Nembo wrote:

There is the Selective Service System which could be used to mobilize, draft, men between 25 and 18 years of age. 21 being the first group called up. The Selective Service is expected to deliver the first batch of men to the military within 193 days.

Training and Organization I would imagine, would follow standard US military procedures. As for equipment I would imagine they would be issued with what was being made or in storage.

Do you happen to know offhand what the UK plans in the same situation?

#8: Author: duffers,

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:37 am
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mortis wrote:

Cuz' near as I can tell Finland isn't anywhere near coming close to that definition. And I think the last time the Finns had a fight one their hands, and did fight with real distinction, was the Russo-Finnish War.

The fact Finland is neither in that position nor near it is a good thing! I'm sorry you don't appreciate everyone's disdain for hegemony across the world, but we can't all be Little United States. The fact you've served once, let alone three times is telling, not something to revel in.

Regardless, the simple observation remains; much like the English, Americans have never fought an equally matched opponent, singlehandedly. Whilst their action in both World Wars was commendable, they only got involved when at the latter stages of WW1, and when forced to in WW2. Without Pearl Harbour, no American presence. Infact, I wonder, perhaps if the German Revolution had succeeded, America would have propped up Hitler to fight Marxism.

Deja vu! Supporting dictators in far away countries, to fight Marxism. Does that sound familiar to you?

#9: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:44 pm
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Quote:

Regardless, the simple observation remains; much like the English, Americans have never fought an equally matched opponent,singlehandedly.

Thats probably right. But the other simple observation is that America is the strongest super power and cannot fight an equally matched opponent since there are none. Nukes or not. Its also quite notable that the Americans have fought 99% of thier battles on countries other than thier own. That in itself is a huge logistical nightmare not many other countires have the capability to do. So this war that Therion imagines, would almost without a doubt be fought on thier soil.

Anyways, Tippo-Simo is just a shit disturber arond these forums.

For Therions question. I am sure the draft would brought in, and you would see every kind of soldier from every part of the USA. The USA does have plans made up in case they go to war with a superpower. Plans change as they adapt to the enemy, so who knows what the structure would be like.

#10: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:22 pm
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Quote:

Regardless, the simple observation remains; much like the English, Americans have never fought an equally matched opponent

Has this ever been the case for any country at anytime in known history?

To quote one of Americas greatest soldiers:-

"to get there first with the most men".....

Is surely the essance of grand strategy, and a sure fire way to load the dice of chance in your favour.

Cheers
Ronson

#11: Author: Therion,

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:36 pm
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mortis wrote:

name another superpower in the world (who the Chinese? You have to be able to project power to be considered a superpower, and the Chinese can't find their collective butts right now.) ?

My question is related to my CCMT mod - Urbania - something similar USA, but bigger and Darker And Edgier is in big trouble - it's during a civil war between a theocratic and constitutional faction. Meanwhile it's forces on another continent fight against a Montanyan invasion and Centralian insurgents, while Royalians (something similar to UK but...) attack the mainland because they want to "reclaim" a "lost colony". So, I predict a lot of casualties.

mooxe wrote:

For Therions question. I am sure the draft would brought in, and you would see every kind of soldier from every part of the USA. The USA does have plans made up in case they go to war with a superpower. Plans change as they adapt to the enemy, so who knows what the structure would be like.

What would be quality of such force in CC terms?

#12: Author: mortis,

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:08 am
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This is for Duffers

First off I'm not revelling in my past military service, I'm proud of my time in the Marine Corps, also I just stated three different times I faught and in those three different conflicts they were different types of conflicts. In my family its expected for all males to serve and we can trace our lineage all the way back to Lt. Skinner of the Royal British Army that came to the States in 1789.

Secondly, the only equal battlefield that you will find is only in ones imagination or on the chessboard. There is no such thing as an equal opponent. If you wait for your opponent to be equal to you in everything, more than likely you are going to lose alot of men.

And lastly, if you think that the United States would actually support Hitler had Pearl Harbor not happened, then you need to read a little more in dept on the relationship between FDR and Churchill, both spent long hours trying to find a way for the US to enter into the war without being the antagonist.

#13: Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:27 am
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mortis wrote:

Secondly, the only equal battlefield that you will find is only in ones imagination or on the chessboard. There is no such thing as an equal opponent. If you wait for your opponent to be equal to you in everything, more than likely you are going to lose alot of men.

I suspect that people are getting the idea of an "equal" opponent from games that are "balanced" to be "challenging".

#14: Author: 666442,

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:45 am
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If the United States was engaged in a prolonged conventional war and took many casualties, above all they would be reduced into a conscripted, poorly trained, indisciplined mess. It can be said that the only reason why their army is so powerful is because of how many soldiers and how much money they have. What are they when you take those two things away? Garbage. Sorry my American comrades, but in a pound for pound competition, you stink.

It wouldn't come to this however because hypothetically speaking, after taking that many casualties, they would resign.

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