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dont you think germans are way to strong, or allies to weak?

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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Wacht am Rhein

#1: dont you think germans are way to strong, or allies to weak? Author: Kojusoki,

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:00 am
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hi,
I have been playing WAR H2H recently and I have founded that Panthers are really pain for allies. I know they were perfect tanks for that time, but what if I want to play a more ballanced game? How can I modify the stats? I looked at the Data folder but I have no idea what is what. Where can I find info about this?

How to make bazooka and shreck just a bit more accurate?
How to make AT Guns not so valnurable for mortars?
How to lower the side armour of the Panther?

How to, finally, edit battlegroups, forcepools - have you got any tool, more user friednly then notepad;) Id like to give allied weapons the same stats are for germans and make forcepools with the same amount of people.
To be honest - id like to play againts the same BGs, with same forcepools, weapons and experience but with different uniforms.

Thanx
Michal

#2: Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:14 am
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Before any of those changes are you changing the difficulty level?

Usually Line VS Line is most historical. For more and possibly better tanks for a side change them to Recruit. For less and worse tanks for a side change them to Elite. This will help balance a campaign/operation. It will also help a bit for single battles, but the best way is to agree on the number of points per side for single battles....

Also remember that the Germans are supposed to over power the US at the start of most of the campaigns/operations....

#3: Author: Kojusoki,

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:59 am
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well, I know all that issues, however i wanted to play a completly ahistorical campaign. Where both sides are attacking, start in the middle of the map etc.

#4: Author: Pzt_XLegione, Location: Milano, Italy

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:49 pm
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Kojusoki
I know that you played just few battles online, at the beginning of the campaign germans have a great force to hit americans.
You will see that the situation will be different during the campaign.
It is to early to make negative considerations about the game.

I think the game is historical, and also the weapons reflect the history.
Why to reduce the armour of the Panther? That is not historical.

I played many battles online, and often I won tanks duels with Panthers but also I had bad experience, 3 Panthers lost vs just 1 Sherman.
Of course Panther is the best, but in this game german is always the attacker and american can ambush him easily.
If you hold americans, don't try to fight the battle like frontal clash otherwise you lose 100%, change your tactic ....

You will enjoy our GC, I'm sure that you will change opinion, the game is balanced.

Ciao

Pzt_XLegione

PS
I agree with you about mortars, they are too effective against the guns for the rest everything is perfect Smile

#5: Author: flick,

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:05 pm
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Yeah, i'd rather have it realistic, than fair.

Besides, when you crush infantry battle groups, on their flanks, leaving the armoured spear-head BG's ,stranded withour fuel and ammo...it's VERY satisfying.

#6: Author: Kojusoki,

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:28 pm
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guys, i am not complaining at the game Smile

I am not upset that it is historical. Great it is! But I just want to make, lets say, a dual campaign.
There are some persons who make a starwars CC, some are making other - and I am the one who wants an equal one.

BTW
I play CCV for many yrs online. I've played about 30+ games in WAR also.

#7: Author: Kojusoki,

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:32 am
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As noone helped me Wink

I made my homework and made some changes:

1)Made .5cal HMG similar effectiveness as Schweres MG42 (changes has been made ONLY to the weapons. I didnt alter soldiers, morale etc)
2)Likewise - made US .30 cal MG same as german counterpart - leichts MG42
3)Made US snipers same as German
4)Made all AT guns harder to kill with mortars - they now act like a half track - All guns have their "chance that armor will protect an exposed crew member" risen from 0 to 398 what means 90% of cover
5)Reduced front armour of Panther (half way between the original armour value of Panther and Sherman 75) as follows:
front low: lowered to 205, other HT (Heavt Tank) to 300
front med: from 184->133 other HT 252
front high 135->105 other HT202
front side low 263->165 other 305

What do you think about this? The zip with the files that should be placed in folder /Base is attached. Remember about making a copy of original files!!!!

Still I am not fully sure how damage is calculated, but Sherman gun has penetration value at PB (Point Black, up to 40m) of 169, so it still cannot penetrate the front armour of the Panther. However, according to the internet, sherman could penetrate Panthers armour at close range. Am I right?

Next: we spent some time with Will thinking of Bazooka effectivnes. Finally, we deicided to stay with the original values of those weapons and just lower the Panthers armour. FYI Bazooka has potential penetration of 100mm of steel, while Panzershreck has 160mm. In real life, Shreck had 200 and bazooka 125. Also Panzershreck has a higher range.

We were also thinking about making the german BGs less equiped with Panthers. Now they have too many I belive. During the WHOLE war, 6.000 were built, while Shermans 100.000. Even, if we triple the amount as German deicided to mass the armour forces for this offensive, it is 1 to 5 ratio. This means, that having up to 3 Panthers per BG looks resonable. If a German player has only a few (instead of 10-15!!) he will be more carefull.
Now, the best strategy is to take as many Panthers as you can and just roll on the allies. Even if we loose somehow a panther or two, but the allied BG will be disbanded, the goal is achived IMO

Last edited by Kojusoki on Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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#8: Author: Therion,

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:16 am
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Battlegroups are whole battalions. Panzer battalion with only 3 panthers?

#9: Author: Kojusoki,

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:29 am
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Keep in mind that battallion usually operates on larger terrain then 1000m x 1000m. What I want to say, is that the avaible resources for player cannot be taken from reality, as the game shows just a VERY small part of the war theater. Density of 3 panthers/1kmx1km terrain is imo LOTS of.

#10: Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:48 pm
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Quote:

Keep in mind that battallion usually operates on larger terrain then 1000m x 1000m.

there r alot of examples when the German PzD punched on 4-6km line. Calculate how many meters were per each bat Wink

.

anyway AFAIR according to the German doctrine PzAbt (Tk Bat) having ~80-90 tanx was to attack on 1km or 2km line (don't remember for sure).

Quote:

What I want to say, is that the avaible resources for player cannot be taken from reality, as the game shows just a VERY small part of the war theater. Density of 3 panthers/1kmx1km terrain is imo LOTS of.

nah, it's pretty low for Ardennes, actually. i mean 3 tanx per 1km.

Quote:

Still I am not fully sure how damage is calculated, but Sherman gun has penetration value at PB (Point Black, up to 40m) of 169, so it still cannot penetrate the front armour of the Panther. However, according to the internet, sherman could penetrate Panthers armour at close range. Am I right?

well, at PB Sherman could pen Panther only with HVAP and only with turret hit.

and of coz it could never pen 169mm even of Homogenous armor, even with HVAP and even at 40m.

Quote:

FYI Bazooka has potential penetration of 100mm of steel, while Panzershreck has 160mm. In real life, Shreck had 200 and bazooka 125. Also Panzershreck has a higher range.

Bazooka (m1,m9 and a1 vers) couldn't pen more than 75-85mm of either FHA or RHA sloped. Panther slope just decreased this numbers to 35-45mm.

PzSchrek(RpzB.54 or /1) according to the test carried (not German) couldn't pen more than 100m MQA. Anf of coz that decreased to 70-80mm vs Sherman frontal hull.

as for range the effective range of both was 100-120m.

Quote:

If a German player has only a few (instead of 10-15!!) he will be more carefull.

10-15 is v few even for CC Smile

.
How could the German pen US line with such density?
Ever checked the availability of AT sources in US ID?

Quote:

Even if we loose somehow a panther or two, but the allied BG will be disbanded, the goal is achived IMO

funny, that's the way the war is made. and CC represents attrition v well so in 5-8 battles the german player would have lost attacking power.

just my 2 cents as HNY present Smile

#11: Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:52 pm
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2 Pzt_XLegione

Quote:

I think the game is historical, and also the weapons reflect the history.

u r totaly wrong here Smile

#12: Author: Kojusoki,

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:55 pm
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Well IMo Germans will win this game easly with the original settings. If those sets are realistic, both opponents equal in experience, and I am right, Gterman will win the Ardennes Offensive. But will it be realistic? Smile

Dima - lets play a grand camapign, what do you think?

#13: Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:02 pm
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Quote:

Dima - lets play a grand camapign, what do you think?

WaR, no way lol i don't play such rediculous mods, sry.

and the problem is not in availability or armor of some tanx Smile

#14: Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:06 pm
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Have to agree with Dima....

I'm on day 17 as the Germans on Elite and US on Recruit and have lost just under 200 tanks. Now I have only a couple BG's with armour left and have to run them around like a fire brigade trying to defeat the US armour BG's.

I was fighting on the last 2 maps at one point and if I could have cleared them the battle would have ended. So as attrition lowers the Germans attacking ability and US reserves show up the battle does start to go the other way....

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#15: Author: Kojusoki,

Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:23 pm
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Well I think the bigger problem is lack of regular infantry, not the tanks for germans.,..

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Wacht am Rhein

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