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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Wacht am Rhein

#1: Individual Statistics Author: Thork,

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:18 pm
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Greetings from :german
I'm a long time close combat fan (even so I haven't played in a while) and was delighted to finally see a remake with a dynamic campaign. It seems like WaR doesn't change a lot but offers a fine polished product ready to play and I thought that would be all I need Very Happy

Anyway, after some warm-up and finally restarting the GC for real, there seems to be a major disturbance...
Close Combat is about squad tactics and individual soldiers right?
But after studying the manual and some testing It seems the individual statistics (kills,medals) of a soldier and even the soldier (names, attributes) itself is lost once removed from the active roster...
Even removing the very same units and adding them again generates different soldiers. Seems like the new ones don't even match the same experience level...? So where is the fun in that? Rolling Eyes

I got to change my active roster depending on situation/map/enemy but don't want to lose experienced men that I tryed so hard to keep alive...
At least for me, breeding some "heroes" is a main motivation when playing a campaign and I just stoped playing because of this issue and don't know if I'll return if there's no fix... Crying or Very sad

I don't even remember if this also happened in the prequels...

So my questions would be:
1. Is there some reason for this I just don't get?
2. Is there at least some kind of compensation for the lost experience?
3. Is there a fix / Will it be fixed?

edit:
Just remembered another "disturbance"...
It seems like the leaders are the most likely to die?! No snipers involved - seems odd?!

#2: Author: Martin_Linge,

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:37 pm
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Thork wrote:

Greetings from :german
I'm a long time close combat fan (even so I haven't played in a while) and was delighted to finally see a remake with a dynamic campaign. It seems like WaR doesn't change a lot but offers a fine polished product ready to play and I thought that would be all I need Very Happy

I believed, but was unable to find numbers for it, that the junior leaders do suffer higher loss rates than the privates, as they have to expose themself to issue orders, kick asses and in general get tings done. So I always assumed the high leader loss rate was deliberate in the game.

#3: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:45 pm
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I have noticed in CC5 especially the leaders get whacked early and often.
Sometimes it is because they are the most exposed of the unit, other times
I can't figure it out at all... several times the leader has been the only casualty in the unit Shocked

. Haven't noticed it as much with CC2.

#4: Author: flick,

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:07 pm
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It was common practise to shoot at the nco's and officers first no?

#5: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:33 pm
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I've you remove a group from the active roster you do lose any record of kills or medals for given soldiers. This has always been true for ALL CC games. This is nothing new to WaR.

#6: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:43 pm
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Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote:

I've you remove a group from the active roster you do lose any record of kills or medals for given soldiers. This has always been true for ALL CC games. This is nothing new to WaR.

Teams can be rested/pulled from the line and used again (with statistics intact) in CC3...don't remember how CC2 handles this.

#7: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:55 am
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flick wrote:

It was common practise to shoot at the nco's and officers first no?

Yes, I agree Wink

, but I was speaking of things like mortar rounds hitting just the leader, Gun shots and grenades... strange sometimes, but I guess that happened in reality too.

#8: Author: Thork,

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:29 am
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Thanks for answering Smile

I also don't have numbers on the officers death rates but can't agree on them beeing specifically more exposed or targeted than others...
Sure they sometimes had to lead the front of an attack or were picked by snipers but they were also often more experiences, stayed in the background coordinating or using the radio and got preferred cover by teammates..?!
Also I believe officers tryed to avoid revealing their rank to the enemy, at least later in war, after having bad experiences on the east-front getting picked by snipers...
Also many still believe/d targeting officers to be a coward act like it was often stated in former wars.

And like dgfred said I believe seeing mortar and gun rounds prefer killing my officers faar to often not only targeted rifle fire... When having few losses most of it are leaders...

Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote:

Teams can be rested/pulled from the line and used again (with statistics intact) in CC3...don't remember how CC2 handles this.

Thanks I thought so and played CC3 a lot but couldn't remember...
Anyway, doesn't anybody else think this is really disturbing? I haven't played since I found out as this is very important and takes lot of fun away for me. Especially because I just can't see a reason for this other than beeing a bug which needs to be fixed...

Last edited by Thork on Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total

#9: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:03 am
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I don't know about a bug but it hasn't been part of CC since last millenium.

A nice addition to the wish list though.

#10: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:50 pm
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Well since you can't take units out to 'rest' them, and if they are a valuable unit or an unit with multiple awards you will have to keep them to the rear
or guarding an out of the way VL to get them their rest Wink

#11: Author: Thork,

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:28 pm
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I don't even got very special or highly awarded units yet, since I'm still on day 1/pm, but would like to keep them anyway cause I'm sure some of them will "evolve" in time...
This is not even a feature but an essential part of gameplay IMO...
Why even mention individual names and statistics if they don't carry along?

Keeping all my "useless" units at the rear is not really an option since it doesn't quite help fight the enemy...
Here is the current situation:
On day 1/am I fought an infantery BG with Cochenhausens mechanized force in Dasburg and even so I play on Elite/Recruit @15mins I managed to stay in cover with only minimal losses, then advance rapidly and break enemy morale at the very last minute taking all VPs. (I think this map was pretty easy compared to others and I got lucky...)
Anyway, since it was only an enemy inf. BG I dared to reserve most my tanks and just packed 1 Command Panther and mostly infantry with some mechanized attached of which all teams (not all members so) survived due to the stupid AT placement of the AI, my precise mechanized mortars and great cover for sMG42 etc.
So now I moved my BG on to Heinerscheid which is defended by the US 9th. armored BG.
I tryed the map with my current force but got no real chance to advance (but maybe stall) with the AI packing a lot of (about 10?!) armored units mostly Shermans which would be really hard to kill only by 1 Panther, 2 Panzergrenadier squads and some halftracks which are pretty ineffective even so I got artillery...
Now it seems I only got the choice of either exchange some experienced units for new Panthers and Panzershreck which means losing them, save&load until my Panther and Arty knock out most of the Shermans (cheating... won't do it) or stop my advance long enough for some of my units to die off and be replaced by Panthers....

I think I'll try and go for the last option just because it seems to be the most plausible one, even so it's a disadvantage and I hate the idea of losing troops and experience on purpose. Sad

But well, since there seems to be no other option I guess I just have to live with losing loved ones... It's war after all.
Still this really demotivates me and is a crucial flaw which just needs fixing IMO.

Damn, maybe I just got to wait for ToW2 or CC5 remake... Yeah I know I'm a "crybaby" Crying or Very sad

#12: Author: Panzergrenadier87, Location: Birmingham, UK

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:11 am
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I have often thought that it would be nice to be able to keep good tank crews when their tanks are destroyed, if the crew survive. They can then be reassigned to a new tank.

Maybe an extra command for them to "Bail Out" would help them survive if, say, the main gun was knocked out and the vehicle was immobile in LOS of enemy armour.

Maybe if there was the possibility to "save" a couple of veteran units to the roster, or if a squad's losses and injuries were only replaced/healed by the 'rest' system as in CC3.

But I don't know how possible any of this is!

The other related thing I used to think might be an idea was if there was a more realistic & intricate awards system - for example German troops who have been in three or more engagements would be awarded the relevant (panzer or infantry, or general) Assault Badge. Troops who destroyed tanks would receive a tank destruction stripe etc.

Finally (rant over!) would there ever be the possibility (with fairly strict limitations so it didn't get silly) of being able to award one's own medals/promotions? Perhaps awards/promotions suggested based on the actions of certain troops.

BUT they're all probably not very good ideas.

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Wacht am Rhein

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