Close Combat Series :: View topic - Interesting find (registry, AI level, Girlie-Soldiers[TM])!

Interesting find (registry, AI level, Girlie-Soldiers[TM])!

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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 5: Invasion Normandy

#1: Interesting find (registry, AI level, Girlie-Soldiers[TM])! Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:30 am
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Jace11 posted this over at CSO:
http://www.closecombatonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14779

Quote:

I've been mournful of the CC5 AI for years... the way it sends squads crawling to the VLs and you can just pick em off.

Anyway, I was looking at values in the CC5 registry where resolution values, install location are kept..

There are two directorys in HKEY/LOCAL MACHINE/SSI/CLOSE COMBAT 5/5.00

and 5.01

In both there is DiffLevel value, I have not noticed this before and not edited it..

The value in 5.00 was 03 00 00 00

In the 5.01 directory it was 00 00 00 00

As my game is patched to 5.01 then this value is being used I think.

Btw, These values are not force strength eg line / recruit etc as they are further down in the registry as StrengthO and StrengthP I think..

I changed the DiffLevel to 03 00 00 00 and tried the game, now it may be my imagination, but my troops seemed to get suppressed quicker and I started to lose troops to morale failure more often. Also the AI seemed to react quicker with smoke and return fire. Previously the AI would keep sneaking around and take several minutes to return fire on an MG or something that was causing it to take losses. Now it seems to me the AI is slightly quicker especially in the use of smoke. It will plop mortar smoke right outside your MG position and on the street to cover its troops etc.

All this may be my imagination....

Anyone tampered with this value before or know what it does / how high a value you can use it or maybe it really does nothing at all....???
Reply With Quote

Very interesting find!
After trying it out...I also found the game (vs AI) to be slightly harder.
The AI seems to be more active (moving, attacking, defending, firing) and reacts faster. The AI still can't really attack on offense...but on defense the AI's quite lethal.
Try it out...you will beat the AI...but you will lose more men than usual...and most battles will be much tougher.

And what's most interesting...this registry editing experiment introduces the Girlie-Soldiers[TM] to (original) CC5!!! You will find your men will duck more often when shot at...and they will abort movement a lot when under fire.

Just out of curiosity...I edited the WAR registry for DiffLevel...but so far still can't get rid of the Girlie-Soldiers AI. More experimentation needed!

#2: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:38 pm
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Interesting!! Now we could get girly soldiers into CC5 and destroy that game too Razz

Mats

#3: Author: 7A_Woulf, Location: Sweden

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:29 pm
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I'll try this. Still just playing the AI, so I really need a challenge! Rolling Eyes

#4: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:54 pm
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CC5 registry entries:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Mattel Interactive\Close Combat\5.01

CC4 registry entries:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Strategic Simulations Inc.\Close Combat\4.00

CCWAR registry entries:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Strategy 3 Tactics\Close Combat\45

The default for CC5 ver 5.00, CC4 and CCWAR for DIFFLEVEL binary value is 03 00 00 00
And for CC5 patched (ver 5.01) the value is 00 00 00 00.

I couldn't get the Girlie Soldiers AI to go away by setting CCWAR DIFFLEVEL value to 00 00 00 00 Sad

#5: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:06 pm
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Found my old login and pass for CCSeries...

So squadleader...

Are you saying you have tried the reg edit and see a difference...?

#6: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:09 pm
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Remember that the commanders attributes affect how the AI attacks. There are vastly different AI commanders in the game.

#7: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:35 pm
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Quote:

There are vastly different AI commanders in the game.

shhhhhh!

#8: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:56 pm
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BG Commander attributes? Yup...of course.
But I've never seen Girlie-Soldiers(TM) AI behaviour show up on stock CC5 before this registry edit...and the Commander Attributes in the BG.adbs are unchanged.
The registry edit affects the AI of the individual teams/squads.

From my testing...the registry edit transforms the CC5 PC AI to a tougher entity (kinda reminds me of the 'enhanced AI' in CCWAR...which is also set to 03 00 00 00 Wink

)...but sadly it introduces the Girlie-Soldiers(TM) AI to the mix Sad

At least the CC5 GS(TM) AI isn't as girlish as it is in CCWAR Very Happy

Last edited by squadleader_id on Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:27 am; edited 1 time in total

#9: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:41 am
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^^^
Having a blast playing vs AI with this registry editing find (thanks, Jace10!)!
Playing as attacker is now very tough (without any vetmod or other adb mods).
The AI on defense with sneaky counterattacks to win back VLs, the bloodier close quarters battles, the improved commander influence on nearby teams, the active (though sporadic) manouvers by the AI. Things that I thought were AI improvements in CCWAR...they were hidden away in just one entry of the CC5 registry!
This is how CC5 should have been configured out of the box...dunno why the registry settings were modified with the patch...so we ended up playing the brain-dead AI for years.
I guess H2H players should stick with the original (patched registry settings)...but for those who still enjoy playing vs AI...edit your registry and give it a try!

I've only tested the setting briefly (a few battles) in SDK, SOC and SDKDK...no huge improvement on PJs 'enhanced' AI settings...but the close quarters fighting is at least twice as intense and brutal with the registry edit.

#10: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:02 pm
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Thanks for feedback...

Yeah I know about Aggressiveness, Tactics etc of Commanders, can be edited in BGroup.adb i think.

Have you tried any values higher than 03 00 00 00 ?? Maybe it can be pushed further... shame we can't ask anyone who actually knows what it does and what its limits are, though maybe members of the matrix games WaR team will have that information..?

I've tried 04 00 00 00, I think its still working.. Rolling Eyes

#11: Author: flick,

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:15 pm
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So for the non-experts here, this improves the AI but also turns the AI into Girly soldiers?

Can we get this as a vetmod/patch?

#12: Author: salhexe,

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:20 am
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My experience:
Playing mod where Ai is attacker:
- with original exe and no adb change = better
- with original exe and only sai change in adb = even better
- with original exe and changing sai and upgrade path (my Omaha germ vet) = very good
- my S vetmod with exe for to play = there are no appreciable immediate results have extended the test

Smile

#13: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:15 am
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*bump*

Any other reports of success at reanimating the braindead CC5 AI? Wink

#14: Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:15 am
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Jace10 wrote:

Thanks for feedback...

Yeah I know about Aggressiveness, Tactics etc of Commanders, can be edited in BGroup.adb i think.

Have you tried any values higher than 03 00 00 00 ?? Maybe it can be pushed further... shame we can't ask anyone who actually knows what it does and what its limits are, though maybe members of the matrix games WaR team will have that information..?

I've tried 04 00 00 00, I think its still working.. Rolling Eyes

Well, why doesn't someone try

FF FF FF FF and lets see Idea

#15: Author: 7A_Woulf, Location: Sweden

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:31 am
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I've tried it for TRSM, allies vs. German AI, using the same tactics and set-ups as I done before:
-At Sword Beach I didn't get of the beach the first turn, It has taken me 1,5 day to clear several beaches and at Ranville the AI even managed to capture the town during day 2. I'm at day 3 (am) and so far I've lost some 20 tanks and I don't use to loose that many of them... Crying or Very sad

#16: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:53 pm
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squadleader_id wrote:

*bump*

Any other reports of success at reanimating the braindead CC5 AI? Wink

You know I reckon I have found something else...

The reg change had a small but noticable effect for me but maybe not as noticable as it has been for other people.

Since then, I have since taken the WaR elements files and copied over element hinderance values for soldiers and vehicles to stock CCV. This seems to have had a big effect for me (though it is combined with the reg change so which is most important I don't know). The AI spent too much time crawling straight for VLs even under fire, now, while this still happens occasionally, the AI seems more free to move around the map. Its actually neally as good as WaR in terms of an AI opponent. Really enjoying playing against the AI again.

#17: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:12 pm
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Nice...keep experimenting, Jace10...looking forward to further reports from you.
BTW, have you tried the registry settings on "mods specially designed for vs AI" like SDK, SOC and SDKDK?
Also...the best proof that the registry editing does change the AI is the "girlie soldiers" behaviour (= soldiers aborting movement and ducking for cover more often)...I have never seen this in stock CC5...only after the registry editing trick.

#18: Author: salhexe,

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:00 am
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Another impression:
Ai have more easily to use its barrage or the mortars and fo. An effect here at Sword, use the barrage at the first sighting of the enemy even though there are many friendly units, a massacre! :eek2

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#19: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:32 pm
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With regards to the elements file, it may make sense that this affects the AI too. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the AI must evaluate each map, paths to VLs etc on a map to map basis cause all maps are different. Movement is therefore an important part of the AI. One thing I had modded previously was the large and small hedgerow movement for

Hinderence values will affect movement speed etc, and combining this with the registry Diff Level = 3 change has yielded a tougher AI for me.

The WaR hinderence values do not differ that greatly from stock CCV though, soldier movement in and out of buildings are slower in general. Thus changing these, while still keeping the values in a realistic range, may be why I'm getting better results.

In my brief tests so far, the AI still goes for VLs but often by unusual routes. Its still easy to beat, but more of challenge.

#20: Author: emmthreejonny, Location: Philippines

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:23 pm
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Thanks and I thought I was getting better at this game.

#21: Author: 7A_Woulf, Location: Sweden

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:08 pm
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I was just playing my GC vs. the AI when this situation occurred at Periers Ridge. (This German BG of the 21st Pz have been giving my poor Highlanders a two-day hell here, despite the fact that they've been isolated.) But as you can see: My Sherman is mobile, but refused to move closer to the farm.

Don't know if it's because of the German panzer grenadiers or the fact that there were two Pz. IV visible behind the farm earlier?

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#22: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:59 am
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<bump>
Any new reports?

#23: Author: salhexe,

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:27 am
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Here are two results of same battle with exe original and exe changed.
The original has more moving around, exe changed have most direct but slower to move, result at 15 min same vl conquest.
I also noticed a different approach in gc when Ai departing from the east (very efficient GJS, Berlin) and the ai is very slow in the attacks from the west ( german ai in Stalingrad), but I think we have a basic problem of the original game.
In general, when Ai attack from east you have a fun mod to play Smile

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#24: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:16 pm
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Nice, Salhexe...but that doesn't really illustrate the difference between 'vanilla' registry and the edited (DiffLevel=03 00 00 00). IMHO the main difference is the squad firefights and close quarters combat...enemy soldiers are harder to kill and your men tend to be more sensitive to battle stress (more cowering, less shooting etc).
Rushing is also harder now with units more prone to aborting movement.
Men also react slower to orders compared to vanilla registry settings.

Keep the reports coming in! Are we just delusional over this?
I was also told that the game actually ignores the DiffLevel registry entry since it was just left over from previous versions. Really? Yeah right!! Wink

#25: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:25 pm
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7A_Woulf wrote:

I was just playing my GC vs. the AI when this situation occurred at Periers Ridge. (This German BG of the 21st Pz have been giving my poor Highlanders a two-day hell here, despite the fact that they've been isolated.) But as you can see: My Sherman is mobile, but refused to move closer to the farm.

Don't know if it's because of the German panzer grenadiers or the fact that there were two Pz. IV visible behind the farm earlier?

Yup...been playing a lot of Utah lately...I saw this happen quite often too.
Tanks will choose to concentrate fire on sighted enemy positions and refuse to move closer to the enemy. Sometimes you need to send out infantry to scout ahead before the tanks will move.

#26: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:34 am
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I posted this over at CSO...

OK, here's one of the reason why I'm one of 'the believers' in the power of the DiffLevel = 03 00 00 00 registry edit.
Playing my daily CC battles vs the AI (on any mod) you recognize the difference right away...compared to vanilla registry.

But when playtesting my mod...I was truly sold
OK...we have Indonesian anti-tank infantry squads in the mod...basically a bunch of guys armed with explosives and Jap lunge mines. These guys destroy British tanks by rushing at them kamikaze style with hopes of blowing up the tank close-range with explosives and mines.
With 'normal' CC5 (without DiffLevel editing)...this was pretty easy to do...just order them to rush (move fast order) the tank and unless they take very heavy casualties or lose leaders they will usually reach the tank and start 'partying' Very Happy

So...I also experimented briefly with converting the mod (demo version) to CCWAR.
Now using these tank buster squads were much harder...thanks to the Girlie Soldiers(TM) AI...it takes a lot of clicks and re-clicks to get them to rush a tank...and most of the time they will abort rushing and go to ground.
Imagine my surprise when I applied the DiffLevel edit and went back to test the CC5 version of the mod...my tank buster squads now perform just like (well maybe slightly less girlie) their CCWAR version! So the DiffLevel edit does make a difference!

#27: Author: salhexe,

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:57 am
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I agree Very Happy

#28: Author: Dauphin,

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:32 pm
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To make it short
here are the points that I have noticed using the 003 parameter for the AI
- use of smoke
- use of off board artillery
- use of airplanes
- the use of mortar is effective against an offensive
- guns are set in better places
- the ennemy tends to do better traps
- less or much fewer crawling units
- better use of grenades

However the AI i far from being perfect. But that is still an improvment

#29: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:17 pm
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squadleader_id wrote:

I was also told that the game actually ignores the DiffLevel registry entry since it was just left over from previous versions. Really? Yeah right!! Wink

Who told you this...? Not someone working on the Longest Day perhaps...?

#30: Author: Dauphin,

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:19 pm
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It must be a tecchie I believe. Someone who has read THE book.

#31: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:46 pm
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Jace10 wrote:

squadleader_id wrote:

I was also told that the game actually ignores the DiffLevel registry entry since it was just left over from previous versions. Really? Yeah right!! Wink

Who told you this...? Not someone working on the Longest Day perhaps...?

You guessed right! Wink

Too bad they just believe the tecchie and condemned this as delusional ranting without even bothering to test the setting.
See the CSO forums for more details... Very Happy

#32: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:07 am
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Could you point me to the thread in question please, its not in the AI thread I wrote in...

#33: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:14 pm
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OK...

http://www.closecombatonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14812&page=2
http://www.closecombatonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14899

#34: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:36 pm
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Thanks for that, very intestesting Hero = 2???

The problem in these threads appears to be the Strat3 guys spend so much time working on modding GJS etc into CCV that they don't play the games enough. All that testing didn't spot all the unit icon bugs in TLD. If they'd played a campaign start to finish those kinda things would have been obvious. Not to say this is diffinative one way or the other, but I know from my experience that slight changes here and there have nasty side effects.

E.g I am beginning to think that the size of the names files has a big impact on stability of basic CCV Normandy. Too large and you risk a crash when you execute your first moves on a big campaign etc. Smaller = more stable... pain in the bottom that one cause it took me ages to spot it, but a process of elimination pointed at the names.txts - unreal...

I'd been using large modded txts and the game kept crashing and all the adb files could be replaced with stock without fixing it. Only the names files fix it. Looks like a memory thing to me.

Incidentally over the weekend I added Lock N Load BG icons to CCV I'll bring in some screenshots and / or the Scrngadg and Gamegdg files if anyone wants them - also imported the WaR game interface

#35: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:00 pm
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Looks like CCTLD was rushed for release...I wonder why?...it hasn't been tested enough for sure.
I found basic errors in data coding...and it's too bad that S3T didn't even 'upgrade' the interface graphics like they did for CCWAR.
I played a bunch of battles and 1/4 of an Ops...enjoyed the night battles (woohoo!) and the tough CC2-like AI (harder to kill like our experiment with CC5 registry, but also more active moving and attacking)...but I spent today fixing up the bugs and customizing the game so CCTLD's details are up to the level of CC5 Normandy mods I'm used to playing (GJS-TRSM, Utah, Bloody Omaha).
I've fixed most of the coding issues (ranks gadgets, uniforms)...I've even added my own version of Brit Para ranks (Denison Smock camo). Also worked on a custom uniforms.txt file...based on historic uniforms used in CC5 mods...the stock CC5 uniforms from Atomic suck!

Anyway...name files do cause crashes. Irregular characters usually cause this...I recommend using a spreadsheet to edit the Names files...not notepad.

And lastly, Jace10...I'd love to see those Lock'N Load icons you ported to CC5!
You've modded all the BG Icons with LnL art?

#36: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:12 pm
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Ok,
I was in a rush this morning so I copied my backup folder for my mods.
I've uploaded my whole mod, ie my installation of CCV as it is on my PC. Not all the files in CCV folder, just those changed by modding.

You're a modder so you'll know what to do with the files. For the others who might want to try it, firstly, its not a plugin file. To play it etc you should make a copy of your entire CCV folder as a back-up and be running stock CCV 5.01. Then simply copy all the files over.

The premise of the mod is to take stock CCV and tweak it, fix bugs, improve interfaces etc. Its not a proper mod, just a collection of tweaks.

Includes:

Data Mods - mostly bug fixes, a few new weapons, bigger names files, Team changes, changes to Battlegroups, removed all French tanks, Ostruppen have russian names.

Elements, Force Pool, Weapon changes - mortars less accurate, longer to fire, SVT-40 fixed, RPzB and Zook changed to WaR stats, weapon weights tweaked for support weapons and rifles. Accuracy of MGs etc slightly reduced. etc etc Granade bundles for Sturmtrupps, Demo charges for AB engineers. M1919A6 in for AB squads.

Graphics

Imported WaR game interface (not the mainscreen etc, just the green panels you see when the game is playing) - and associated unit icons etc. BG icons (from Lock N Load).

New Tank colours for US. New AT gun colours. Some map fixes (missing trees that sort of thing)

New weapon graphics. Some from WaR, some modded.

Soldier Colours - my own take on what they should look like.

Download link

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OCFLMF0H

#37: Author: salhexe,

Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:41 am
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How to use registry folder?

#38: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:07 pm
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salhexe wrote:

How to use registry folder?

Right, that is for my install it sets all the registry settings to my preferred values, including the diff=03 for the AI, basically if you have done the difflevel=03 registry change mentioned earlier in this thread you dont need to use it. How it works is, if you double click it it will add the said registry entries into your registry. I have thought about this and because it mentions an install location and drive installed from (C:/Program Files etc) then if you have it installed to a different directory it will cause CCV to not run.

I'll fix it and reupload it.

#39: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:23 am
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Jace10,

I've installed and given your customized CC5 mod a test...I like the changes! Nice work!
One thing though...the gadgets included in the file doesn't have the Lock'NLoad BG Icons you mentioned...they're standard CC5 BG Icons.
I was very curious about those Lock'N Load BG Icons.
Did you upload the wrong version? (gadget files are dated May 6, 2009).

Could you upload just the ScrnGadg and GameGadg files with the new Lock'N Load BG Icons please...I don't want to download the whole set again.
Thanks in advance!

#40: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 8:16 pm
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By BG icons I meant the ones that appear on the strat map, not unit icons you might see on a requisition screen.. start a campaign.

Maybe we got wires crossed about what id done.

#41: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:56 am
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Oww...I see now.
Yup I think I've untangled our wires now Smile

Great stuff though your custom files...and I like your version of the uniforms too!

BTW, are there scans of the Lock'NLoad counter art available online somewhere? Or did you manually scan them?

#42: Author: Jace10,

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:31 am
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Did an extensive search online, was quite difficult to find good quality pics of them.

I think some of the better ones came from boardgamegeek.com

Ah yes here is a good example, http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/393848?size=original

There are more scattered around the site, as well as the Lock N Load official site (but not many there) then web searches as a last resort may find a few more...

Also vehicles are mostly top down view... pain for counters that have armour units

#43: Author: Roger5,

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:37 pm
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I use vetmod2. Real war

#44: Author: Roger5,

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:44 pm
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why can not maintain the tank crew (which was not damaged) when the tank is lost?

#45: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:21 am
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@Jace10: Thanks for the L'NL counter artwork link!

@Roger5: You need to play CC3 or CoI for that feature Smile

#46: Re: Interesting find (registry, AI level, Girlie-Soldiers[TM Author: Roger5,

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:22 am
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yes I know and I've both CC3 and COI. There we have another problem. I do not like the graphics on the wrecks and you know what other wrecks.asp that can be used to the game?

#47: Re: Interesting find (registry, AI level, Girlie-Soldiers[TM Author: salhexe,

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:49 pm
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error

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 5: Invasion Normandy

output generated using printer-friendly topic mod. All times are GMT

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