Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard
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Close Combat Series -> The Mess
#401: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:35 pm
    —
It just gets..

Qoute Schrecken AKA Andrew Williams: ""C'mon, settle down

the game [LSA] has only been out for one and half years.

the AI non movement in The Longest Day took just a little over two years to fix along with the trees not obscuring Line of Sight.


just lighten up.... ""//End Qoute

Qoute by Andrew Williams aka Schrecken at Matrix forum..

Seems, even the devil gets religious at old age.  

Wink
#402: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: US_Brake, Location: USA PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:24 pm
    —
Looking with hindsight, the re-release of Close Combat III as Cross of Iron was a golden acheivement for Matrix and the CC Community. It was the re-release that they can be proud of. The key persons who decided to make that happen have my thanks! Those who made it have my respect. The last patch was a fail, but that can be fixed.

Close Combat III /Cross of Iron is the best of all CC games.  When SSI did CC IV they tried to broaden the scope and scale of the original games and in doing so inexplicably drops a list of "best" features from CCIII. One example? The scenario editor. A better direction was to realize the popularity of modding and map making as an element of the game and added a map making program along with built-in ability to mod the game and save personal versions.

Another example, they ended "Close Combat" and created a game more apply titled "Medium Combat" CCMT is "Long Combat." They also added the so-called improved feature, Strat Map.... can we hit the NEXT button a few times people? Broading the scope of the game to make it overall a game of RISK was a fail and could have been done much better. Its not that a Strat layer idea is bad it's that is was done poorly.

If they wanted to increase the scope of the game it would have been better to use a hex based set up. They could have started making the maps in a manageable size to gameplay in standard hex sizes. With a hex strat layer they could tap into all the age old wargaming tradition. Bridge the gap between past wargaming and the new RTS style. In those conditions you can keep Combat "Close" while having a strategic layer that is intelligent, like GG War in the East. Merge that style with CC.

Imagine a CC style game that was focused on multi-player. More options classic 1 vs 1 or more. Ability for players to watch other players play live. The ability to record matches. Game stats that are recorded by the company. That's what this series needs.

One question. If you design a version with larger maps then why do the number of units not increase in the game? Why is it, when you try to play LSA you end up with these beautiful huge maps and only 4-5 pre-picked units to fight with. Before making CC6 Matrix, take notes on CC3/CoI.


Link


Last edited by US_Brake on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:37 am; edited 3 times in total
#403: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:44 pm
    —
Schreckens posts are the most comical,Once the super hero for Matrix fighting the crime that was CCS and it's Evil followers,now cries like a jilted lover left at the alter.
I too have seen this change of hearts and am glad someone else brought it up.
Even though Matrix got me for $50 on a piece of crap game I do feel justified in seeing Schrecken now waking up to whats been going on from DAY ONE!


Now who's right?
Who's always been right?
Were you able to rub that Shit Stain off your nose?

Guess I should give the Old Bastard some credit though,Him and tejszd.
When you look at all the people over the years who have been closely knitted to CC with the so called label as being on the Inside.
Only him and tejszd have remained loyal to the Forums.(but for how long,Idk)

Bet that whole Pirated Software debate will be laid to rest for years to come.
Who's left to fight for that?
Matrix may Troll here but they sure as hell wont participate,they don't even do it for their own forums.
Also noticed is that The Blood now answers questions.I can only imagine it's down to a one man Gang over there,One can only assume it's down to one because of Trust Issues with the Beta team that was there.You know....The ones who were getting a free game despite not doing anything.(See Pirated Software)
Hopefully The Blood doesn't get burned out fixing 3 games or were all doomed.  Rolling Eyes



Gone are
Sulla
Beebs
SR_Drill
CSO_Linebacker
JimR2m
Subuckle
Flamethrower

And probably a few more.

It may not be the end of CC,................................................but I bet you can see it from here.
#404: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: US_Brake, Location: USA PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:40 am
    —
Good. All the assholes are gone. now we can enjoy ourselves.
#405: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:54 am
    —
US_Brake wrote (View Post):
The key persons who decided to make that happen have my thanks! Those who made it have my respect. The last patch was a fail, but that can be fixed.


Ohh, Matrix and patches… Why does this proverb keep popping up: “the cure is worse than the disease” ?

Rolling Eyes
#406: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:08 am
    —
Quote:


New postPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Reply with quote Report Post
It just gets..

Qoute Schrecken AKA Andrew Williams: ""C'mon, settle down

the game [LSA] has only been out for one and half years.

the AI non movement in The Longest Day took just a little over two years to fix along with the trees not obscuring Line of Sight.


just lighten up.... ""//End Qoute

Qoute by Andrew Williams aka Schrecken at Matrix forum..

Seems, even the devil gets religious at old age.



No, just times change.. I'd still happily support anyone that showed commitment to improving Close Combat... as far as I can see that ended December 2008
#407: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 am
    —
Quote:
One example? The scenario editor


CCMT has the best scenario editor   Smile
#408: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:16 am
    —
Quote:
JimR2m


Sorry, he's the one that fucked the whole thing... and he's still at it!

he's quoted as saying "the people that really matter are happy, Matrixgames"
#409: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 am
    —
platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

Gone are
Sulla
Beebs
SR_Drill
CSO_Linebacker
JimR2m
Subuckle
Flamethrower

And probably a few more.


Sulla and Beebs were Simtek with Future, until money got in the way of the friendship.....
Drill, Linebacker, and Jim were all good modders and are missed by me, the game is lesser for their loss...
I thought Sbufkle and Flamethrower were the same person, they were like a married couple, too similar.
IIRC Jim was the only one on Matrix, he spent years logging the faults and getting spanked by irate customers, it's a shitty job apologising for Matrix. I havent seen him there for a while unfortunately.
Steve (The Blood) is the last one, except for Southernland who is in a league of his own and seems to stay away from the arguments mostly, except for a rip roarer with Drill back at CSO years ago.
This is all my memory, I may be wrong but I'll stil argue it.

My point is, the team that started the re-releases is nearly all gone - it's a shame. I've worked in teams on major (engineering) projects and I know that the final result rests on the last 5% of the work. It's the final polishing and finishing that really makes the difference. What Matrix released is a 80% job - a good base but still too rough around the edges for a commercial release.

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

Hopefully The Blood doesn't get burned out fixing 3 games or were all doomed.  Rolling Eyes


Too right my midwestern friend, he IS Close Combat now.
#410: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:25 am
    —
Quote:
If you design a version with larger maps then why do the number of units not increase in the game?


It is a design that creates more challenges.

You get to defend/attack key points or do you try and defend/attack every point - your choice.

With 64 maps you can have many possibilities of map size and shape.

One of the main drawbacks of CC that I have seen is it usually develops into two sides butting heads until one finally collapses from exhaustion, thankfully that was addressed, but not very well as the Strat maps of the re-releases only allow headbutting with fast movement almost non-existent.... WaR did allow the best Strategic options of all the CC games - i even achieved a double envelopment once H2H - oh yeah punch the air.


JimR2m never understood this and kept creating crap strat maps.
#411: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:26 am
    —
At least Schrecken has woken up AND SPOKEN UP. If ever so late…

Sorry, I can’t say that about Tejszd. LSA has been out now for 20 month, and LSA is still not playable. Still Matrix and Tejszd does there best to flog LSA to unsuspected consumers for 50$!

And as they are aware of the problems in LSA, and he STILL sell it and dont fix it, by definition isnt it actually an act of fraud.. ??


Fraud definition: “In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent. The specific legal definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Fraud is a crime, and also a civil law violation. Defrauding people or entities of money or valuables is a common purpose of fraud, but there have also been fraudulent "discoveries", e.g., in science, to gain prestige rather than immediate monetary gain.”

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
#412: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:27 am
    —
Quote:
IIRC Jim was the only one on Matrix, he spent years logging the faults


he spent most of his time plagiarising maps and vehicle graphics.

the rest was lame platitudes aimed at unwary customers.

Last edited by schrecken on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total
#413: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: US_Brake, Location: USA PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:30 am
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schrecken wrote (View Post):
Quote:
One example? The scenario editor


CCMT has the best scenario editor   Smile


I stand corrected. I always forget that.
#414: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:36 am
    —
schrecken wrote (View Post):

No, just times change.. I'd still happily support anyone that showed commitment to improving Close Combat... as far as I can see that ended December 2008


Hmmmm, I like many others am still waiting for the final WaR patch that fixes ALL the bugs and runs faultlessly. OK, maybe not many of us are still waiting, the rest have moved on to XBox games.
Now, Matrix knows this, so from their business (profit making) point of view, WHY release any more patches?
The sales have already been made, OK there may have been more sales a few years ago if it was better, but now in 2012, the cost of fixing bugs and creating patches far outwieghs the potential new sales (my opinion)
A business doesnt set out to create a perfect product, they find the "sweet spot" on the cost / profit curve that gives them maximum return. They need to have a good product, the better it is the more sales, but eventually the cost of perfecting it is greater than any EXTRA sales that arise from that perfection.

Most manufacturers expect a rate of return on their products, they budget for it.

This is reality and it worries me because I want a PERFECT game, but in 2012 I fear we are passed the point where they will invest in it any more....... Their focus will be on the next version / game  / product to give them their NEXT paycheck, after all they already cashed the ones from 2008 and it's too late for a refund. Crying or Very sad
#415: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:41 am
    —
schrecken wrote (View Post):
Quote:
JimR2m


Sorry, he's the one that fucked the whole thing... and he's still at it!

he's quoted as saying "the people that really matter are happy, Matrixgames"


I'm sad to hear that, I've dealt with him a few times over the years and I felt he had integrity. Except for other people maps -  Wink
#416: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:43 am
    —
Wink
#417: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:45 am
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Okay, we are in a train wreck, so.. im a bit irritated, sorry.

Somehow, the CC world doesn’t deserve better. Because we are such woman that we don’t DEMAND our rights as consumers. Instead the general CC consumer has apologized and lessened the problems with the remakes. Its like, “hey we don’t complain, for if we complain and demand functional products then maybe Matrix get pissed and don’t make functionally products for us”
HOW HAS THIS WORKED FOR US!

And we are not even woman, I mean, have you seen your wife or GF when they got a defect product?? Are they wosses like us?  They take the faulty product and goes to the store and SETTLE FOR NOTHING LESS than a new functional flaw free product, or the money back.. They don’t sit idle for 20 month, or like with CCMT sit idle for 5 years and just hope it will be fixed in a magical way…
Tell your woman how we the cc consumers and Matrix function and they laugh at you... Try it..

So we have been treated the way we have taught Matrix to treat us, and don’t forget a new CC-remake will be available early in 2012! That product will be what we have always wanted!

Why don’t we prove to Matrix that we are all idiots, and buy it!
#418: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:51 am
    —
Quote:
Why don’t we prove to Matrix that we are all idiots, and buy it!


you will

Quote:
Hmmmm, I like many others am still waiting for the final WaR patch that fixes ALL the bugs and runs faultlessly


All bugs reported where due to be fixed in March 2009.

matrix were not interested so the 4.50.07b (hence the  b) semi patch was released which did not include over 3 months of bug fixes that had been tested exhaustively.

Since then the Mega-patch was released which has some interesting path finding enhancements.... and some game crashing annoyances.
#419: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:53 am
    —
schrecken wrote (View Post):
Quote:
Why don’t we prove to Matrix that we are all idiots, and buy it!


you will


Yeh, I know.
#420: Re: Trainwrecks & The Off Topic Hijackers Graveyard Author: MajorFrank,  PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:49 pm
    —
US Brake,

yes a hex-based larger strat-map why not. We still haven't seen that one, huge 'World War 2 land war - simulator'. Except maybe the Steel Panthers - series.

I think Steel Panthers World at War is available for free and even though it's turn based, it has such scope in terms of battles that CC can unfortunately never match. Looks like they have a nice, lively community as well. Not that CCS isn't a lively community.  Razz  Smile
Close Combat Series -> The Mess


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