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#1: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:49 am
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The last of the series to be rereleased. Will it be based off the TLD/WaR engine or will it be an upgraded version of itself?

#2: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:14 am
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Can you actually upgrade the aging CC2 engine and dated graphics?
But if it's based on the TLD/WAR engine...then S3T needs to come up with a lot of new maps for ABTF.
I vote for TLD/WAR (enhanced CC5) engine though!

#3: Author: Therion,

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:21 pm
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I vote against the CC5 strategic minigame.

#4: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:54 pm
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Therion wrote:

I vote against the CC5 strategic minigame.

Therion, if you love CCMT and the single missions...you can always play CC5 single battles and not touch the Strat Map minigame Smile

Are they that much different from CCMT single missions/battles?

#5: Author: flick,

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:20 pm
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I loved the design of the old maps.

#6: Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:27 pm
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Based on what we have seen so far I'd say it would be another TLD/WAR build.
They were able to create new maps for WAR so I dont see that as an issue for ABTF.

I think the biggest worry is how large are the maps gonna be?
Large maps do not suit this Campaign inmho

#7: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:49 pm
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That's two votes in on map size.

Plt_michael = Small

Flick = Big

#8: Author: Therion,

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:16 pm
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squadleader_id wrote:

Therion wrote:

I vote against the CC5 strategic minigame.

Therion, if you love CCMT and the single missions...you can always play CC5 single battles and not touch the Strat Map minigame Smile

Are they that much different from CCMT single missions/battles?

Yes, CC5 doesn't have a mission editor.

Also, I like campaigns.

#9: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:14 am
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Is it really a rerelease if they build it upon the WaR/TLD games? It would be more like a Market Garden mod.

#10: Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:30 pm
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You have point Mooxe, it really isn’t a re-release if it is done on the CCengine instead of the CC2 code. So no I guess it can’t be called a re-release.

Mods change data, graphics and sound but the CC2 re-release will have code changes. So no I guess it can’t be called a mod.

Maybe it’s a new game. CC5 was a new game that was built on CC4 with some features added. It probably should be called CC# as it is an extension of the current series of games but then for some reason CC6 has become known in the CC community as the ALL NEW game….

#11: Author: Guest,

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 2:26 am
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Therion wrote:

Yes, CC5 doesn't have a mission editor.

Repeat number 2,687: CC4 and CC5 both come with mission editors.

I remain astonished that nobody knows about them.

-

#12: Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 2:37 am
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Screens or they don't exist.

#13: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:01 am
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Haven't you played CC4-CC5, Therion?
There is a scenario editor for creating single battles, Ops and GCs.
The single battle editor is pretty basic though...basically just selecting a map and selecting 2 BGs to fight on that map...plus adding basic things like what off board supports are available for each side.
You need screenshots for this? Wink

#14: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:46 am
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I started the CC series with CC2 on a mac. That's good news we could see a new version.

#15: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:21 am
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CC3/CoI, CC4/WaR and CC5/tLD all have battlemakers/scenario editors/mission editors

The batlemaker that comes with CCMT is much more powerful than all the others no ifs or buts.

#16: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: Sapa,

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:51 pm
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I sure hope that its true with the CC2 rerelease because it was my first CC back in -97 and i still think it has the best AI and the best stratlayer.

Can imagine this with the WaR/TlD engine and new maps, but please dont just use US VL flags this time!!! Wink

Mats

#17: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:10 am
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My first ever game on the computer was! MSoft's ABTF. I'm blessed or what! :D

Now, after 11 yrs., WAIT! i can almost! not stand it ~ much longer Smile

A UpDATED and Re-make/Do of cc2! DRool.

I am so psyched ! that i will buy this 'one' Outright. I love the gorgeous maps in Modern Tactics! and the smooth~~~gameplay!

I've just installed Hamachi and chatted with someone in there already!

Saving the BEST! for Last! My hats off to all the makers of these wonderful Re-dos!

Thank You! so very much.

Oh! a popUp message alert from Hamachi! Enjoy Everyone! Smile

#18: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:07 pm
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Wow.. wonder what changed thier minds? I remember a conversation that CC2 wouldnt be rereleased, but hey.. thats great news!

CC2 works so well because of its engine and the small maps.

If they use the engine of those last 2 rereleases, then there are 2 concerns.

1:People will want bi g impressive looking maps, which while may be eye candy, take away a key plus to CC2.

2:You aqbsolutely have to keep the three sector landing zone set up, NOT a stragetic map. Historically the CC2 engine how it worked one map after another in rigid form is bang on.

In the end, if it uses another engine, (Unless a brand new one) its going to simply be a mod... and there alreayd is a ABTF CC5 mod in the works that looks to be a good one... and will be free....

#19: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:56 pm
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What the hell! Very Happy

Give me a CC2 release with 64 small great maps and polish, german, american and brittish talking their own language as the orginal game and i will close my mouth about errors and txt files and just play it!

But please dont just use the us flags!!! Wink

Mats

#20: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:16 pm
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64 solid small maps would still be true to the game.. the AI in this Cc version is the least in need of tweaking.. dare I say even touching the AI, jus play the Island scenario as Allies and you have probably one of the toughest fights in any factory CC game. It set the standared in AI that no other version of CC, including the rereleases came close to.

So 21 maps per sector... be interesting.. alot of 'approach' battles. Wouldnt be hisotrical but the gameplay provided they dont make it a War/TLD engine Mod woudl be killer. Perhaps even closest thing to unwinnable in GC as allies on vet. If any new maps were just as good as the originals.

But come on, you need 3 sepearate sectors and you cant have a wide open start map which throws history completely out the window. You then simply have a ABTF themed WAR/TLD mod... booo...

I guess after this rerelease theyll rererelease the series again....

#21: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:24 pm
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3 seperate sectors.........
Does that mean 30 Corp. has no chance of making it to Arnhem?
I never could get past the horrible graphics of CCII long enough to play it.

What about blown bridges, and Bailey Bridges?
And will units now be able to go both over and under bridges?

I do hope they redo the maps,but then again im also still waiting for the WAR maps to be recodded.

#22: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:25 pm
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before any Re-re-release we have to have the Collectors Edition then the Classic Gold edition then the 5Pack Bundle.

So a re-re-release is a long way off yet.... (at least a year)

#23: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:33 pm
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Come on man a 5Pack Bundle

It has to be a 6 pack or nothing in this house hold.

#24: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: Therion,

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:41 pm
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CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

throws history completely out the window.

The best description of CC4/5 ever Very Happy

#25: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:04 pm
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platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

3 seperate sectors.........
Does that mean 30 Corp. has no chance of making it to Arnhem?
I never could get past the horrible graphics of CCII long enough to play it.

What about blown bridges, and Bailey Bridges?
And will units now be able to go both over and under bridges?

I do hope they redo the maps,but then again im also still waiting for the WAR maps to be recodded.

The blown birdges and baileys are GREAT part of CC.

As far was WAR.. yeah. Overall WAR is not a bad mod.. but there is no question the map coding is terrible... I found it kind of odd. I woudl assume SL didnt code them becuase hes normally fine with that.

#26: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: testbug,

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:45 pm
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the 30th corps reached the town Elst, (islands at CC2) that's the last battle of them, the germans regrouped there ( i live there now), airborne knew their will not hold arnhem and about the bridges, grave has been reached intact, nijmegen intact, arnhem intact, and son was blown away, the railbridge has been blown also at oosterbeek.
If they making a new version of this one then they must have to make more battles.

#27: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:23 pm
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testbug wrote (View Post):

If they making a new version of this one then they must have to make more battles.

Well that would be good for for a new version, now I believe, and I a mgoing form my memory which is getting older and failing at times, that I read soemwhere Mafi (the King of CC2 modding) did mention you could incease the number of batttles in stock CC2.. but there would obviously be a limit.

So a question would be, how many more battles can be added to stock CC2? If you can add many more with new version, and you had more historical battles than CC2 woudl allow.. well new version of CC2 woudl fit this..

But heres a BETTER question:

If CC2 is available for free online now, and LEGALLY. Why would anyone buy a new version for the same cost WAR and TLD sells for if it had marginal enhancements? One could covert any new maps and add them to CC2 even...

#28: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: testbug,

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:40 pm
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But heres a BETTER question:

If CC2 is available for free online now, and LEGALLY. Why would anyone buy a new version for the same cost WAR and TLD sells for if it had marginal enhancements? One could covert any new maps and add them to CC2 even...[/quote]

Maybe for better graphics and details? i dont complain about the graphics neways...i like oldschool games.
And what ya say more histoical maps.

#29: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:02 pm
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Quote:

Maybe for better graphics and details?

There have been some solid grpahics enhancements for CC2 in mods ect.. but yes not up to snuff 100% with mor erecent CC versions. However the maps, the main graphic to any CC game, are fully impimentable with any recent CC map.

The explosions do lack in CC2 graphically... but things like craters and other sprites have been modded to be better than stock CC2.

#30: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: Senior_Drill, Location: 22134

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:25 pm
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Based on two year old information, CC2 will have to be a complete remake from almost the bottom up. Other than a few snippets, the source code for CC2 was not in the stuff that Destineer, and then by license St3, got from Atomic.

#31: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:14 pm
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Senior_Drill wrote (View Post):

Based on two year old information, CC2 will have to be a complete remake from almost the bottom up. Other than a few snippets, the source code for CC2 was not in the stuff that Destineer, and then by license St3, got from Atomic.

Your bang on. A good 2 years ago I had a conversation with David Heath on the phone about, amungst other things, the CSc rereleases. CC2 was not in the plans whatsoever, and as you mentioend, the actual code was a big factor. I distinctly remember when I brought up the fact its freeware online he agreed it wasnt (and maybe it was just at the time) a wise endeavour to undertake as CC2 remake.

There are royalties to pay out to the companies who made and passed the rights on. Form what I understood, before a new version of CC is to be even considered, they had to rerelease 3, 4 and 5. They had a budget set out that understood whatever revenue came back, would have these previous makers/owners putitng thier hand in the bag. Incidentally, getting these 3 versions rereleased didnt guarantee that 3ST or Matrix or anyone coule neccasarily get the thumbs up to be the ones to make a new CC, but thats another thread....

my point is a CC2 rerelease would cost likely more manhours to redo the engine compared to WAR/TLD, so cost more to make manpower wise (in sheer hours alone) and with the Freeware aout there likely make less money than WAR/TLD.

Being out of the loop for more than 2 years, its possible the stand not to rerelease CC2 has changed, but I woudl be suprised. I would think woull simply see a WAR/TLD engine mod packaged as stnad alone. It doesnt mean it wouldnt be good, but callign a spade a spade,, a mod on this WAR engine... which isnt a unique engine to start with, only modified CCM, which is a modified CC5.. ect ect..

Just to state a fact how CC2 ABTF was out of the plans back then, David told me he wanted me to help lead a ABTF mod to be included with the CC4 rerelease (WAR) and to start cracking od details to begin. Now why could they consdier that if they were goign to rerelease CC2? But they never did add ABTF mod to WAR, so thats either because lack of manpower to do it, or because they WERE going to rerelease. Now considering thes cope of what is needed to make CC4 or WAR into ABTF, all the repainted/new maps, unit graphcis ect ect, Id chalk the reason it didnt come to light was manpower and cash flow, which is understandable.

CC2 is the best AI version of CC. As Drill confirmed, the code is not workable, so to base a rerelease on the WAR/TLD engine/version means your not even basing the project on one of the best reasons CC2 stands the test of time.

#32: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:28 pm
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Yea it will be the same engine as WAR and tLD but thats ok.

I consider it to be a good enough Campaign to be a worth while game to buy.
I'm so sick of the whole Normandy thing I just couldnt buy tLD,maybe if it ever gets cheap enough I'll get it then.
I dont understand why if CCII had the best AI why/how did they change it?
Or was it just that good of a game when it came out because of the lack of games back then?

Am I wrong in thinking that CCII had bridges that troops could go over and under?
And couldnt you blow/build bridges in that version?
Why would anyone drop that if true I just dont understand.

Hopefully if they do that ,they'll do the same with the night effects from tLD and put them in WAR as mentioned. (Night effects.... Crying or Very sad

) but what the hey I'll try it.

It does however kill me to not see another patch yet for WAR,last patch was on March 5th.
If they release tLD and then ABTF before a full patch is made for WAR it just shows a huge lack of repect for the customers of WAR to me.

#33: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:50 am
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platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

I dont understand why if CCII had the best AI why/how did they change it?
Or was it just that good of a game when it came out because of the lack of games back then?

Am I wrong in thinking that CCII had bridges that troops could go over and under?
And couldnt you blow/build bridges in that version?
Why would anyone drop that if true I just dont understand.

It does however kill me to not see another patch yet for WAR,last patch was on March 5th.
If they release tLD and then ABTF before a full patch is made for WAR it just shows a huge lack of repect for the customers of WAR to me.

The AI change? I think it was choices which were made to enhance the game that ended up with loss of better AI

With the bigger maps in CC3 the AI lost its balls.

The GC with CC2, on the three sector line where you had to keep LZ and the point allocation for new units (Point allocation was low, tough to earn units so you had to be smart with what you had) worked really well. You could factor in luck as well I suppose for a portion, the GC was just so good for CC2.

You CAN blow bridges in CC2, and yes, I dont know why they took it out. Blowing bridges is an important military tactic that adds alot to CC2 gameplay.

I wouldnt expect another patch for WAR. 3ST kept saying "There was never a patch for CC5" as part of its Mickey Mouse marketing strategy to sell themselves as saviors of CC and how bad Artomic was and now that they habve done a patch for WAR and TLD they have checked off thier 'Make Patch' box. WAR was a contractual obligation, CC4 still gets nowhere near the respect it deserves. WAR was the Guinea pig for TLD, no flagship...

CC2 rerelease will be ABTF mod for TLD... woopie... There already is a mod for ABTF for CC5 in the works. If you own TLD then convert the CC5 version when it comes out and save yourself 50$. Either that or have someone send the ABTF data files from thier copy, bring it into TLD along with maps and boom.. theres your game.

The decent thing to do would be modelling the CC2 engine and modernizing it instead of rehashing this WAR/TLD one. But which one is cost effective? Which one will make more money for the developpers? Thats the bottom line...

CC2 as well wasnt armour heavy as well. As we all know, the AI in CC3 will often grab a big impressive King Tiger when it can, and once you manage to put it out of commisiion, the battle is easily then won.

#34: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: mooxe,

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:07 pm
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I tell you what.... The main focus needs to be shifted off the maps. Maps are a big job for coding and creating ofcourse, but it seems many mods and the latest rereleases focused to much on new maps. Maps are a dime a dozen.

I hope Market Garden is not going to be just another slightly different version of WaR. Seriously, it would be very tiring to have just another mod out there. I'd rather see an update to MMCC3.

Honestly though.... what really needs to be done is all the best features of all CC's into one final version. Battle maker of CCM, scripted events from CCMAT, CC2's blowable bridges, CC5 strategic side, CC3's style of following battlegroups and promoting, CC3's ability to drop a map in make a scenario and play it, MMCC3, CC4's supply drops and redirects.... We have some great features all spread out in 8 or 9 games. We dont need a rerelease, we need an all in one release.

#35: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: Therion,

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:42 pm
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... and a working AI and a working pathfinding Very Happy

.

Yeah, and a realistic campaign, where one just plays his own unit, not all the units, like in CC5.

#36: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:38 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

Honestly though.... what really needs to be done is all the best features of all CC's into one final version. Battle maker of CCM, scripted events from CCMAT, CC2's blowable bridges, CC5 strategic side, CC3's style of following battlegroups and promoting, CC3's ability to drop a map in make a scenario and play it, MMCC3, CC4's supply drops and redirects.... We have some great features all spread out in 8 or 9 games. We dont need a rerelease, we need an all in one release.

Can't argue with you Mooxe about that. CC has always been a couple steps forward with each release but also a step backwards as some features where not brought forward....

#37: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: 0202243,

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:25 pm
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Nice to hear about this re-release
Let us see what the futur brings and hope AI will be better Cool

#38: Re: Close Combat 2 Rerelease Thread Author: vonB,

Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:51 pm
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Quote:

Yes, I'd buy that...

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem

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