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The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions

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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat The Longest Day

#121: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:39 pm
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I thought the bug may be attributed to Davids sound mod we are using. So I tried the battle without the sound mod and same result, Germans disbanded without a battle, or any exchange of VLs.

Heres the file...

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=download&id=2993

#122: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:23 am
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Germans are removed from map even if a truce is called.

#123: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:47 am
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The save you posted is the Allied side.

It should be the Axis side for testing...

how come?

#124: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:00 am
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

The save you posted is the Allied side.

It should be the Axis side for testing...

how come?

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=119

#125: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:30 am
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Has it been Hex edited?

#126: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:40 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

Has it been Hex edited?

I don't know if mooxe hex edited it or not ... but since you said this:

"It should be the Axis side for testing"

... I therefore posted a link to a reference explaining how to switch sides, so testing could be done from the German side ... which you seem to think is important, or relevant.

mooxe tested it against the AI, (as mentioned in above posts) but we also tested it in multiplayer ... with an Allied save initiating the battle. During this multiplayer battle, we agreed to truce to see what the results would be ... it resulted in a total Allied victory, with a German BG disbandment.

#127: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:50 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

The save you posted is the Allied side.

It should be the Axis side for testing...

how come?

In your question "how come?" ... are you asking:

1) how come it should be the Axis side for testing?
or
2) how come you posted an Allied save, when it should be an Axis save for testing?

Also, why should it be an Axis side for testing?

#128: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:10 pm
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Mooxe posted about a problem playing as the Axis side v the AI

I asked for the save.

He posted a save of the Allied side V the AI so someone has changed it... are they a programmer?

Man, if you run around delving into the code of the game then you are more than likely to get errors.

the errors that you report will always have a question over them if you have been hex editing.

It's like people reporting bugs in Firefox's mods.. they can only be expected.

#129: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:59 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

Mooxe posted about a problem playing as the Axis side v the AI

I asked for the save.

He posted a save of the Allied side V the AI so someone has changed it...

When playing this campaign I have saved ("save as") after each battle, then gone back to the command screen and continued the next battle from that save. This way there is a record of each saved battle.
Not everyone does that, so some battles don't have a save file to replay them ... unless you go back to previous saves, and play until you get to the battle in question. That being said ... I think mooxe gave you a link to the Allied save which I had posted, since he probably didn't have a German save available for that exact battle.

No hex edited save files have been used thus far.

Thanks again for your help with this
... and as noted in other posts and forums ... there in NOT a cohesion bug in TLD.

#130: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:10 pm
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Yeah it was just the latest save file. The side you play does not matter, results are always German disband. Also doesnt matter if you truce, still get disbanded. Lastly, vs AI or human results are still the same. Anyways I am testing it right now between laptop and desktop on a stock GC.

#131: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:11 pm
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thanks

#132: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:43 pm
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Ok I just verified the bug, heres how I did my test.

Two PCs next to each other.
Stock GC
15minutes
Morale On
Line vs Line

I truced through about 10 battles to reduce cohesion.

It did not drop fast enough so as Allies I catured all VLs except one and this dropped German Cohesion to nothing.

Did one more battle against the 0 cohesion BG, truced out and no German disband.

Next strategic move I brought in a fresh Allied BG, truce out and no disband.

Next battle I forcibly disbanded the Germans by battle.

German BG respawned next morning and I had an Allied BG on the depot waiting.

Started battle, truced out, German disband.

So this is a bug with the 5.50.07 version. German BGs that have been disbanded at 0 cohesion will automatically lose any future battles while at 0 cohesion.

#133: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:52 pm
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Found two more bugs

- When there are no battles to be fought after executing strategic moves client side will hang after pressing next
- Client side hangs if host chooses a campaign thats already finished. Host will load it, client gets as far as 99% downloaded and stops moving.

Verified cohesion graphics do rise. However due to the extremely short campaign length this effect has a highly negligible effect on the game.

#134: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:56 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

So this is a bug with the 5.50.07 version. German BGs that have been disbanded at 0 cohesion will automatically lose any future battles while at 0 cohesion.

I'm not sure this is a bug ... but I guess only the programmer can say whether it is or not.

I think it's actually a good feature, because a German BG returning from disbandment should not be able to hold a map (under attack) until is has rested for a day or more.
As it is ... the returning German BG is able to re-control a major supply depot, which will return flow of ammo and fuel to connected map BG's. But if an Allied BG attacks it again within several turns ... it will disband again under all circumstances.

This all makes sense to me ... if there isn't any German BG's left to re-enforce after a strategic move ... then a recently disbanded BG returns, but due to its fragile state ... isn't able to hold a map (under attack) until cohesion is restored, by a period of rest.

Last edited by davidssfx on Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

#135: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:03 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

Verified cohesion graphics do rise. However due to the extremely short campaign length this effect has a highly negligible effect on the game.

Just so I understand what you are saying ...
Will a BG, with no cohesion, gain back cohesion (as seen graphically) by resting after return from disbandment?

#136: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:13 pm
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davidssfx wrote (View Post):

mooxe wrote (View Post):

So this is a bug with the 5.50.07 version. German BGs that have been disbanded at 0 cohesion will automatically lose any future battles while at 0 cohesion.

I'm not sure this is a bug ... but I guess only the programmer can say whether it is or not.

I think it's actually a good feature, because a German BG returning from disbandment should not be able to hold a map until is has rested for a day or more.
As it is ... the returning German BG is able to re-control a major supply depot, which will return flow of ammo and fuel to connected map BG's. But if an Allied BG attacks it again within several turns ... it will disband again under all circumstances.

This all makes sense to me ... if there isn't any German BG's left to re-enforce after a strategic move ... then a recently disbanded BG returns, but due to its fragile state ... isn't able to secure a map until cohesion is restored, by a period of rest.

Well its either a bug or a very ill concieved feature. A BG with 0 cohesion can hold a map if its never been disbanded before. So I can fight for days upon days with 0 cohesion, I cant hold a map at 0 cohesion if the BG was disbanded previously, doesnt make complete sense.

With the short length of a TLD GC compared to how a BG recharges cohesion, there is not even enough time to recharge and be just a little bit effective.

You end up with a BG, unable to survive any battle, clogging up the depot and delaying functionable reinforcements.

I am not even sure if this only affects BGs with 0 cohesion. Maybe I should test at 50%, or 33%. Hmm..

#137: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:25 pm
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if you have time please test.

#138: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:26 pm
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repost from the GC thread

Cohesion and fatigue use an internal system in the game engine called a 'trait'. When you adjust a 'trait' value the amount of increase / decrease is scaled based on the magnitude of the current value and the magnitude of the change. The closer to the maximum the current value is, the less of any increase is applied, and vice-versa.

As an example, if you rest a BG overnight it should recover about 1/3 the amount of cohesion it is down from the maximum. If your BG is at 50% cohesion and your rest overnight it will be at about 66%. If it rests overnight again it will be at about 77%. Resting a 1% cohesion BG over night should take it to ~33%.

Resting for one day turn in TLD (with 4 turns per day) will only get you back ~4% cohesion if you're at 50%.

There are only 10 graphical states in tLD so a 4% increase may not register graphically.

Also the cohesion gain from resting only happens when you finish a turn and go on to the next one, not when you hit 'execute' to go from movement to battles.

#139: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:24 pm
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Test 1

Used german unit 1057/91.

I disbanded a German unit on the 1st night turn forcibly.

Due to a bug previously reported, all disbanded Germans BGs returned on turn two on the same maps. The BG I forcibly disbanded returned with 0 cohesion.

Started a battle and truced immidietly. Result was German BG disbanded.

I then rested this BG until the 9th. There was no rise in the cohesion level.

Test 2

Used German unit 125/21 unit for this test.

Disbanded the unit forcibly.

BG returned next morning with 33% cohesion.

Entered a battle and truced, BG stayed on map.

Rested this BG and cohesion did rise.

After I beat this unit back down to 0% cohesion they still stayed on map after truce. The only thing missing from Test 2 is checking to see if the unit can hold a map after respawning with 0% cohesion.

Results

So there there is either some inconsistancies, bugs, or certain BGs can hold at 0 cohesion while others cant.

There is also inconsistancies with how a units regain cohesion. In my tests the 1057/91 could not regain cohesion after resting for 3 nights. 125/21 BG could regain cohesion after one night.

#140: Re: The Longest Day - Bugs, Mistakes & Suggestions Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:49 pm
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Tech report.

There are some additional cohesion penalties associated with losing a battle very quickly (in the first few minutes). This was added to help mitigate the suicide defense strategy. That is probably what is kicking in here, since it sounds like he is doing the truce immediately after the battle starts. If so that would be a bug, since a truce shouldn't be triggering this penalty, only a defeat.

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