Mortars: Super weapons!
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#1: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Stocktov,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:55 pm
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I know this has been discussed before but I have to go off here.  Mortars: I just don't get it.  The earlier poll indicated that a majority felt that they are too powerful.  However, there were still a good number of combatants that were either on the fence or are pleasantly comfortable over all field and AT guns going "boom" in the first few seconds after engagment of targets. I would be interested in what these people do for requisition since the facts are known by all on this topic.  How do they utilize these worthless piles of dung?  Do they wait until mortars rounds are exhausted and then start pulling the lanyard?  Are they left in the force pool?

Why waste a unit slot with ANY gun when mortars are sure to be around?

Rant off
#2: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:04 pm
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Agree.... Theres little point in taking ATGs to a battle. This was also a problem in regular CC5 and was addressed in almost every mod created. Why it resurfaces after being fixed for so long is incomprehensible. Another problem I have with mortars is they fire thier rifles if they have clear LOS, giving away positions.
#3: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:29 pm
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I remember two concealed AT guns completely stopping my advance in WaR - I had great trouble with detecting them with infantry on distance of about 100m. Do they get visible faster in TLD?
#4: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Pzt_Serk,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:32 pm
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You can easily spot them with the smoke when they fire, it's enough to get the kill with mortar.  Unlike the AI, you don't need to actually «see» the gun to know where they are.
#5: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:37 pm
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Blah. One of these exploits. I wish they'd get rid of the effects that soldiers don't see (dead bodies, muzzle flashes, etc.) to prevent them.
#6: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: lemon42,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:38 am
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While I agree about the death rate of mortars against ATG and open vehicles I don't see the same death rate when trying mortar against infantry.

For me the ideal solution would be to have it adjusted so that mortars death rate against ATG and open vehicles is more in line with the useless mortar against infantry.
#7: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Stocktov,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:34 pm
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For me, mortars against infantry are perfect.  If your squad is running from point to point in the open, you should be slaughtered.  This is what happens, generally, with good mortar LOS.  I think that when in a covered position, death rates from hits are about right, IMHO.  My average kills per map from mortar fire is around 3-6 guys.
#8: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:12 pm
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Mortars against infantry are a bit weird. Sometimes a mortar shell lands directly on a dude and nothing happens to him.

lemon42 wrote (View Post):
While I agree about the death rate of mortars against ATG and open vehicles I don't see the same death rate when trying mortar against infantry.

For me the ideal solution would be to have it adjusted so that mortars death rate against ATG and open vehicles is more in line with the useless mortar against infantry.

When a mortar shell falls into a vehicle, it's hardly surprising that it gets destroyed.
#9: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:43 pm
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Quote:
When a mortar shell falls into a vehicle, it's hardly surprising that it gets destroyed.

82mm?! u gotta be kidding unless u mean soft skin.
#10: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: fruitbar,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:02 pm
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also isnt it that starting in cc4 you can no longer place AT guns in buildings so now there is no roof that can protect you anymore?

which goes on to my next topic 'evolution of AT guns in CC'
#11: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:32 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):
Quote:
When a mortar shell falls into a vehicle, it's hardly surprising that it gets destroyed.

82mm?! u gotta be kidding unless u mean soft skin.

Well, it would probably mean a massacred crew and possibly an ammo explosion.
#12: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:07 pm
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Quote:
Well, it would probably mean a massacred crew and possibly an ammo explosion.

u will have more chances falling from 5stry house and staying alive than hitting vehicles directly with mortar.
#13: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: Pzt_Decoy,  PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:10 am
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I agree that the mortars are way way overpowered..it kills assaults and atg's with ease and has enough shells left for the rest of the battle.
And Dima is correct, its very hard if not impossible to hit a vehicle or a lone ATG with a single mortar in reality..
#14: Re: Mortars: Super weapons! Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:05 pm
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A AT gun is possible to kill with mortar, specially if it’s not dug in or indoors. But.. not with a cople of rounds though, if luck isnt a huge factor that is...
A HT would be a small target, hard target, specially since they have standing order to move as soon as incoming shells, and we may altogether forget use a mort vs moving target, or repositioning target.

Lest take some numbers, lets look at the HT250, and at the open top aria, its apx 2.25x1.8m.
Lets look at some distances, and assume the alignment of target is not important as width and length are basically the same. All numbers are average morts needed, and all are ground burst. All numbers is based on a normal trained crew with observer with a clear LOS and good communications. Numbers are based on peace time training excercises (limited stress). The 8cm mort is a WW2 type mort (sw made). The numbers are from single mortar, in company support (not a barrage).
The angle the mort come in is high, 70-72 degrees, supose that dont matter much with dugin or hard targets, but vs the unprotected gun it is importent.  


8cm Mortar rounds needed in average to get one round in the HT mentioned a bow (square target):

Distance 250m, 29 rounds
Distance 490m, 67 rounds
Distance 740m, 118 rounds
Distance 1000m, 185 rounds



8cm Mortar rounds needed in average to get one round close enough to damage or maybe kill an medium AT gun in a sand bag or similar pit, pit size is estimated in this case to be 2m diameter (circular target):

Distance 250m, 20 rounds
Distance 490m, 45 rounds
Distance 740m, 80 rounds
Distance 1000m, 125 rounds



8cm Mortar rounds needed in average to get one round close enough to damage or maybe kill an medium AT gun in open and no protection (ground burst and only gun shield protect apx 1/3 front arch):

Distance 250m, 6+ rounds
Distance 490m, 14 rounds
Distance 740m, 25 rounds
Distance 1000m, 38 rounds
And as sweat is cheaper than blood, and spades are plentyfull, dig dig..

that was my 2 cents

Stalky
Close Combat Series -> Close Combat The Longest Day


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