Close Combat Series :: View topic - 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs

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Close Combat Series -> Total Realism Sub Mod

#1: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:56 pm
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I have been wondering a lot about it.
Why dosen't any M10 or Achilles have any 50.Cal HMG? They weren't that rare in the british army by 1944, were they?
I can't count how many times I have whised they would have their MGs to stop inf from rushing the tank or a VL.

Also something else, why not add turretless Stuarts ( equiped with a 50.cal instead) or SODs?
SOD = "Sawn Off Daimler", was a lighter version of a regular Daimler. They removed the turret, moved the radio inside and removed the front mudguards. According to their crew, the "new" Daimler reached a 70 mile / hour.
The armament consisted of a Bren LMG, but could be backed up by a 50.cal HMG or a twin Vickers 303. K.
The usage varied, from Recce to Command.

The widespread of the SOD is a bit limited ( Known usage in the "Inns of Court's Heavy Troop, AC Rgt, 11 Armoured Division ), but the turretless Stuart was much more widpespread. ( Known usage in the 29th Armoured Brigade )
But a few units, like the Guards, scorned such "desecration" on His Majesty's property.

And why not equip Daimler's with the "Little John" adaption ?
using the squeeze bore effect, the round was squeezed from 40mm to 30mm, but concentrated the round to a much powerful punch and a higher velocity, from 792m/s to the impressive 1143 m/s enabling it to penetrate 88mm armor using a APSV round.

The aim was to equip atleast one Daimler in every Heavy Troop with this thing.

Just a thought to add a few more (and fun) units to the force pool.

I got the info on the SOD and turretles Stuart from the GOODWOOD book from Stackpole Books and various internet sources.

#2: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: Dima,

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:49 pm
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Quote:

Why dosen't any M10 or Achilles have any 50.Cal HMG? They weren't that rare in the british army by 1944, were they?
I can't count how many times I have whised they would have their MGs to stop inf from rushing the tank or a VL.

50cals weren't rare in 1944 but one should be out of the turret shooting MG (any approach but rear) thus vulnerable to small arms...and here game limitations come - either you have all the crewmembers vulnerable to small arms or none. I chose none and removed AAMG.

Quote:

Also something else, why not add turretless Stuarts ( equiped with a 50.cal instead)

for pretty much same reason as mentioned above + lack of slots.

Quote:

And why not equip Daimler's with the "Little John" adaption ?

mainly due to lack of slots.
although Tetrarchs use it in TRSM Smile

#3: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:03 pm
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lack of slots

Do you mean in Force Pool?

And what about the SODs?

Also, turretless Stuart's 50cal is usad in the same way as an Coax MG 42 on a Sd.Kfz 251

#4: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: Dima,

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:06 pm
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Quote:

Do you mean in Force Pool?

yes.

Quote:

And what about the SODs?

don't see point adding Smile

Quote:

Also, turretless Stuart's 50cal is usad in the same way as an Coax MG 42 on a Sd.Kfz 251

i can see how small arms can penetrate armor of SdKfz.251, can't say same about Stuart.

#5: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:22 pm
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SOD was just a fun thing to add.

The Stuart 50cal would be like a AA MG but placed like the coax MG42. The gunner spot would be vulnerable to small arms fire only and the rest grenades.
Oh, maybe it isn't possible due to game restrictions? Sad

#6: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: Dima,

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:37 am
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Quote:

Oh, maybe it isn't possible due to game restrictions?

yes, either all or none..

#7: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:24 pm
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Ok, I understand.

That's sad.

Oh by the way, the Tetrachs, does it show that the Little John adapter is on acording to the equipment bar?

#8: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: Dima,

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:39 pm
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Quote:

Oh by the way, the Tetrachs, does it show that the Little John adapter is on acording to the equipment bar?

yes, you could see LJ after gun name Smile

#9: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:59 pm
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Interesting topic:).....regarding the 50 cal on the M10/Achilles.....these were provided as an AAMG, a need that soon diminished in Normandy, due to the lack of German aeroplanes, some vehicles even dispenced with them early into the campaign for this reason. Also at a later stage some of these vehicles were fitted with a raised roof over the crewspace. This was to provide protection .....
( not as some have suggested to provide protection from highly accurate CC mortar bombs) Razz

.....but from airburst artillery shell especially in wooded areas.

The lack of any onboard infantry close protection was due to the usage of them in British doctrine........They were used as mobile ATG, so they would be positioned after an advance by armoured forces, to hold taken ground until towed ATGs could be brought forward and positioned, during this phase of an operation they would have an infantry escort.

The British, unlike the US, never used these vehicles in a 'tank hunting' role, their purpose was purely seen as defensive.

In game terms therefore always have an infantry squad nearby to keep them safe from wicked minded German infantry Smile

with their nasty Fausts

Cheers
Ronson

#10: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: Pzt_Serk,

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:58 am
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ronson wrote (View Post):

In game terms therefore always have an infantry squad nearby to keep them safe from wicked minded German infantry Smile

with their nasty Fausts

Those German infantrymen are not wicked minded, what they have is a high sense of duty Smile

#11: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:43 am
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Quote:

The British, unlike the US, never used these vehicles in a 'tank hunting' role, their purpose was purely seen as defensive.

actually, by 1944 yanx used M10 mainly in infantry support role Smile

#12: Re: 50.cals, Little John, Stuart and SODs Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:36 am
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Pzt_Serk wrote (View Post):

Those German infantrymen are not wicked minded, what they have is a high sense of duty Smile

Close Combat Series -> Total Realism Sub Mod

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