Snipers - Useless or useful?
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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 5: Invasion Normandy
#1: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: rob86,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:01 pm
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I can't find any use for snipers. I know they're supposed to kill leaders at long range, but I've used them multiple times and they don't seem to do anything. What am I doing wrong? Do they not shoot at close/medium range? How far away is "Long Range" ?
#2: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: mortis,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:30 pm
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The best use of snipers I've ever had was against a human opponent playing the Finn/Russian War mod. In the first battle the russians (my opponent) had to cross a frozen stream with points covered by trees and underbrush, but the finns (me) had a ridge on the opposite side to defend with. My opponent opened the fight with a massive mg setup on his side that pretty much suppressed the ridge line to great success. This allowed his infantry squads to cross the stream virtually un-opposed. What prevented my opponent to steam roll my defensive set up was a lone sniper set to ambush. I had him set up in a stand of trees on the russian side of the stream, his main duty was for observation. Never under estimate the scouting abilities of the lone sniper. As the battle progressed and his assault element crossed over the stream and were committed to the assault, I would target a mg team and let him pop off one round, then immediately put him back on ambush. I did this over the length of the battle and would never allow him to shoot more than one round as I didn't want my opponent to start looking for him. When the battle ended, the sniper had racked up an amazing record. He flat out destroyed one hmg team, got three of four in another, destroyed two mmg team, and managed to kill the russian sniper to boot.

Snipers in Close Combat are, for a lack of a better term, a glass cannon. If used properly they can devistate an opponent unsuspecting, however, if used with no real concern for the asset, then the sniper will die very very quickly.
#3: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:07 pm
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Snipers use the same rules for accuracy as the other troops, so they won't get the 1/2 hit/shoot ratio the RL snipers get.
#4: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:57 pm
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Quote:
Snipers use the same rules for accuracy as the other troops, so they won't get the 1/2 hit/shoot ratio the RL snipers get.

snipers do use different rules for accuracy in CC Smile.
#5: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:08 pm
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Different? In what way?
#6: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:33 pm
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Quote:
Different? In what way?

accuracy/chance to hit, chance to kill. plus they disrupt team's morale much better than other teams.
#7: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:19 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):
accuracy/chance to hit, chance to kill. plus they disrupt team's morale much better than other teams.

Is the chance to hit calculated in a different way than chance of hit of a normal 5/5 rifleman with the same rifle?
I have a distinct impression that the accuracy scale in CC doesn't allow a faithful representation of snipers. Most of time they'll end up with 1/5-1/10 chance to hit and a black circle anyway, even with a clear line of sight Confused .
#8: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: mortis,  PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:03 am
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I know in the battle that I posted earlier, my sniper started with 72 rounds of ammo, and by the end of the battle was completely out. So, if he got 11 kills, thats what, something like 6.5 shots per hit? But still he made a huge difference in the overall scope of the battle as my opponents morale dropped way down, even tho he was winning the battle itself.
#9: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: fruitbar,  PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:47 pm
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so for snipers is it the 'soldier' himself or the scoped rifle 'weapon' he uses that makes him the 'sniper'?

what if i were to place such scoped rifle with a MG team such as this german MG 42 team?

MP40
MG42
Replace Loader's Mauser with Scoped Gewehr 43
#10: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: 0202243,  PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:49 pm
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fruitbar wrote (View Post):
so for snipers is it the 'soldier' himself or the scoped rifle 'weapon' he uses that makes him the 'sniper'?

what if i were to place such scoped rifle with a MG team such as this german MG 42 team?

MP40
MG42
Replace Loader's Mauser with Scoped Gewehr 43


It's the soldier himself which makes him a sniper  Very Happy  or the job he does
#11: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:53 am
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I believe;

- The scoped rifle gives the accuracy and kill raiting values used which should be better than a standard rifle.

- The sniper soldier AI setting is what makes the soldier target leaders instead of the closest or most dangerous soldier (ex. MG over a rifle man).
#12: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: rob86,  PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:05 pm
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I often use snipers and they never use any ammo, ever! Unless I order them to fire and not defend. That's why I was wondering..they seem so useless in the game when i use them.
#13: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:55 pm
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Snipers usually will sit until a target gets close.  You have to target at longer ranges.  But I have had immense success with a sniper in GJS and Utah1.3.  

In one battle playing Utah1.3 Sgt Gibbs of the 506 PIR/101AB covered the north Flank of Vierville fight against the II/6 FJR.  The FJR attempted to push north into his sector and he made them pay for their efforts.  This battle was fought h2h.




They are also very good for killing the crew of an AT or Inf Gun.
#14: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:40 pm
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Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote (View Post):
Snipers usually will sit until a target gets close.  You have to target at longer ranges.  But I have had immense success with a sniper in GJS and Utah1.3.  

In one battle playing Utah1.3 Sgt Gibbs of the 506 PIR/101AB covered the north Flank of Vierville fight against the II/6 FJR.  The FJR attempted to push north into his sector and he made them pay for their efforts.  This battle was fought h2h.




They are also very good for killing the crew of an AT or Inf Gun.



In GJS, I have had AT crews take fire from snipers for a long period of time, not take any casualties, and abandon thier gun.
#15: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:40 pm
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I actually had someone quit a GC on the 3rd battle of the GJS GC because of sniper fire on Sword beach.  I placed 2 snipers in buildings at strategic positions.  My opponent brought his troops up at the slow crawl and I had to have killed at least 30-40 troops between the 2 snipers.  He kept firing his tanks into probable positions but could never locate my snipers because I had them placed firing from the sides of buildings rather than the beach front face.  I can't imagine the number of crys of "SNIPER" that my opponent must have heard.  I never did get a screenshot of the kill tally because my opponent bailed on the battle with about 5 min remaining and never returned.


@Mooxe - I've had the same thing occur with ATG's as well.  Its like they can't take the pressue of the constant sniper fire pinning them down and eventually bail.
#16: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: CSO_Talorgan,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:22 pm
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fruitbar wrote (View Post):
so for snipers is it the 'soldier' himself or the scoped rifle 'weapon' he uses that makes him the 'sniper'?


I think its the soldier himself. He hides better than the average grunt; targets enemy leaders; and does not take territory at all. The weapon he is equiped with gives him the accuracy.

fruitbar wrote (View Post):
what if i were to place such scoped rifle with a MG team such as this german MG 42 team?

MP40
MG42
Replace Loader's Mauser with Scoped Gewehr 43


I once kitted out a four man squad with scoped Gewehr 43s, just for a laugh, to see what they would do. The quickly turned their particular section of the map into an abattoir. They were more effective than an MG 42.
#17: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: fruitbar,  PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:51 am
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actually i think all fire orders from any team are 'red dot' auto-targeted by the AI on the enemy leader or next senior member anyways. which sucks because sometimes that means your los and fire completely on the enemy soldier that lacks cover would still be considered out of los just because the main rest of the enemy team or leader is properly covered. also your orders are also issued by the leader or next senior member of your team as although the rest of the soldiers may have los, just because your leader doesnt have los because he is behind them, you cannot issue fire order. move orders you also see the line start from the leader.

back to my MG42 team i created from qclone, i replaced the loader's mauser with a scoped gewehr 43 and even modded the gewehr to have bayonet and SP rifle grenades.

that way the loader has a dual purpose duty as a loader and a sniper, especially once the MG42 runs out of ammo, you think it is pitiful to not have much kill power with a mauser.

which another similarity would be the russian captured MG34 team

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#18: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:47 am
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One battle in Wacht am Rhein.. Sniper just left alone with a defend order in a 2 story building.

Top score for both allies and Axis

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#19: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: Jace10,  PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:56 pm
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Ok, so how would one go about modding the accuracy / ranges etc to make snipers more realistic if the problem at the moment is they do not have a high enough kill / shot ratio...

Remember also that scoped rifles are present in other squads eg grenadiers have scoped mausers etc..
#20: Re: Snipers - Useless or useful? Author: fruitbar,  PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:09 am
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what im really interested to know. if anyone knows what makes a soldier a sniper? is it the team, soldier or weapon that makes him the sniper? perhaps its the team 'type' or unknown or the soldier unknown or simply the weapon being scoped or with a certain kill/accuracy rating. perhaps for a sniper to be a 'true sniper' they must give off the 'sniper' call when they fire at you. below are some teams i equipped a soldier with the same scoped gewehr 43 from the 'individual' sniper team.

the germans in invasion normandy seemed to be so weak that its ridiculous than what you would expect...

below screenshots 'we need men like you for the wehrmacht'

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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 5: Invasion Normandy


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