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#1: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: mooxe,

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:25 pm
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Ok having this arguement with some guys on course....

Some saying that if a .50cal bullet passes close to you that it will do damage to you. I say it wont. Sure theres a "shockwave" or something but not big enough to do damage.

Also some saying the 25mm round will kill you if it passes close. I also can't believe this.

I don't have proof that it wont besides my own opinion.

They have no proof other than a widely accepted theory that it happens.

Does anyone have proof either way?

#2: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: 0202243,

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:11 pm
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I remember the scene from band of brothers (i think the episode with private blyth), where 1 of the guys is knocked over by a passing round of 1 of the german panzers... seems more realistic to me, allthough i'm not sure about reality.
could be it is possible mooxe, i don't know (and i personally don't believe either)

#3: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: GS_Schimpf, Location: Germany

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:28 pm
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Are there really no scientific experiments lingering around on the net on this topic?
Sounds a bit improbable that a 50cal bullet should do damage by only passing by close. I'd rather think it's one of those legends that make this caliber more mystical than it really is. Sure it is a quite big bullet but it still only is a bullet.

#4: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: Senior_Drill, Location: 22134

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:33 pm
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Mooxe, what is their definition of "close"? One centimetre or 1 metre? For the .50 cal, which type ammo - M2 Ball (856 mps - Mach 2.4), M23 Incendiary (1036 mps - Mach 3), or M903 SLAP (1219 mps - Mach 3.5)? Something going Mach 3.5 going passed my ear only 1 cm away probably would hurt my ear. At 1 meter from my ear, it would still be a loud "Crack", and might make my ear ring for a while.

Again, which type of 25mm ammo fired from what? Lots of ammo types to choose from and weapons that fire them, each with some difference in muzzle velocity, but generally speaking, all produce Mach 3+ velocities. Several thousand Joules of energy zipping past in a micro-burst super sonic shock wave.

For either calibre ammo, the Inverse Square Law is your friend - the greater the distance, the less the effect. Then there is MET-T, angle of incidence, clothing, ballistic protection and hearing protection worn to be factored in. It has gotta hurt if just a few millimetres away from yer noggin, but might just be another bastardly aspect of a truely fucked up day at multiple cm's.

I nominate the jerk that makes the Jackass movies to be the test subject for a clinical trial, with a less than accurate gunner. Twisted Evil

#5: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: Gen_Jack, Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:56 pm
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Hey Mooxe,

Saw them testing something similar to this on Mybusters - whether a .50 cal round would break a glass from the shockwave if it passed close to the glass. They found that it would not. If the shockwave won't break a glass then I doubt that it would kill anyone.

Only possibility I can think of is that if it passes close to your ear the sound wave might rupture your ear drum and damage the inner ear, which in theory could kill you. Probably a one in a few million shot though.

#6: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: RD_DeathDealer, Location: Bavaria, Germany

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:48 pm
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It's a JOKE to think that near misses can cause any real damage when it comes to high velocity projectiles!

Both the .50 cal and 20mm rounds (or fragmentation therof) need to make contact in order to kill or wound you.

I WISH that near misses would cause damage...neutralizing targets in Iraq would be that much easier for some of us.

#7: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:34 pm
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Gen_Jack wrote (View Post):

Hey Mooxe,

Saw them testing something similar to this on Mybusters - whether a .50 cal round would break a glass from the shockwave if it passed close to the glass. They found that it would not. If the shockwave won't break a glass then I doubt that it would kill anyone.

Frankly, breaking a glass wouldn't mean anything. Dropping a glass from 50cm can break it. Dropping a human won't.

#8: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: Gen_Jack, Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:06 am
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Therion wrote (View Post):

Frankly, breaking a glass wouldn't mean anything. Dropping a glass from 50cm can break it. Dropping a human won't.

Exactly, if it can't break a glass it ain't going to brak a human.

#9: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: Senior_Drill, Location: 22134

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:22 am
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Gen_Jack wrote (View Post):

Therion wrote (View Post):

Frankly, breaking a glass wouldn't mean anything. Dropping a glass from 50cm can break it. Dropping a human won't.

Exactly, if it can't break a glass it ain't going to brak a human.

Beware of blanket statements. Cheap chinese made table ware ain't the same thing as oven proof Pyrex. Once watched a bartender drop an obnoxious drunk to the floor from one smack to the forehead with the base of a tempered mixing glass. It didn't leave a mark on the glass! Laughing

I have the same opinion of the concensus here, though; it might effect your hearing, but it ain't gonna kill ya. What you don't want to test in person is the effect of being in close proximity to the muzzle blast from large calibre navel guns - 15 inch and larger. That kind of overpressure can mess you up big time.

#10: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:13 pm
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Senior_Drill wrote (View Post):

What you don't want to test in person is the effect of being in close proximity to the muzzle blast from large calibre navel guns - 15 inch and larger. That kind of overpressure can mess you up big time.

They had to reposition some of the AA guns on the Yamato after early trials of the main armament "removed the flesh" from one of the AA gunners arms.

Lovely!

#11: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:09 am
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Is there a possibility that those rounds can cause you lost of your hearing?

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