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#1: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:57 pm
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Hi,
Just got TLD last night and had a couple of 15 min battles.
Have to say, I'm impressed ... best thing to happen to CC. Even the collection of high quality maps alone (playable together in a strat map) is worth the price ... can't imagine how much time over the years was devoted to making these. Everything looks polished from the moment you click the TLD icon. AI seems aggressive and on the move ... what an improvement. I'm not familiar with all the strat related stuff, but from what I've read ... there is a deep layer of strategic options to explore. Historic detail of units involved, as well as smaller squads (half squad) armed with more generic weapons (i.e. more historically accurate) is a welcome addition too. Congrats to all involved.

I would like to experiment with another option to add more realism. I think building exterior walls should be solid ... no line of sight through them and no walking through them. Coding them "factory wall" enables this, but could maybe be done by changing the existing wall coding to "factory wall" values.

Having to move units in and out of buildings (to clear them) and moving along the outside of the buildings to access them (instead of walking through) would be more challenging, but would add more realism and strategy.

If anyone has info about how to accomplish this and/or wants to help ... please post.

edited: exterior walls ... to be more specific.

#2: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: yuma,

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:12 am
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its not so much the walls they are going thru but windows and doors. coding less windows and doors could accomplish it too I guess, but either way it will be at the price of actually being able to fight from buildings.

Last edited by yuma on Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

#3: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:05 pm
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It looks like this will not work after all, since the wall heights are the same as the ground. There is no way to stop line of site, (without recoding wall heights on every map) even if existing walls could be changed to "factory wall" values. Too bad, this game is lame being able to get line of sight so easily ... waste of money not being able to correct this. I should have looked into it more first.

on another note ... I think the CC3 WF mod vehicle graphics were much better than these. The Allies vehicles are too dark and they all blend in too much with the background map. I was working on a sound mod too ... since many of the stock sounds seem muffled (not crisp) and most of the big gun sounds are too similar to each other.

#4: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:21 pm
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If you want no LOS from walls, then you may like close combat modern tactics. Its quite realistic in that aspect.

#5: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: CSO_Linebacker,

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:48 pm
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davidssfx wrote (View Post):

It looks like this will not work after all, since the wall heights are the same as the ground. There is no way to stop line of site, (without recoding wall heights on every map) even if existing walls could be changed to "factory wall" values. Too bad, this game is lame being able to get line of sight so easily ... waste of money not being able to correct this. I should have looked into it more first.

on another note ... I think the CC3 WF mod vehicle graphics were much better than these. The Allies vehicles are too dark and they all blend in too much with the background map. I was working on a sound mod too ... since many of the stock sounds seem muffled (not crisp) and most of the big gun sounds are too similar to each other.

David,

You should be able to accomplish those things in the elements file. If you don't want your soldiers to be able to run through walls, changed the movement rate to 0 for walls. As far as LOS, you need to start playing with the hindrance values...the explanation for accomplishing this is in the column headers for hindrance. There was an elements file for CCMT that performed pretty damn amazing...based on one from CCM6...but the final decision was that gameplayers probably wouldn't like it as much as the marines, or some of us testing it did. The final CCMT elements is modified a bit from that original one. Still were plenty of complaints, after years of being able to run through walls, so it was changed again for WAR and TLD.

I've heard some of the complaints with sounds, but the one thing that I can say in defense of them is that about 90% of the individual soldier weapons, are the actual sound of that gun. In a lot of cases, single shots that had to be manipulated into the weapons fully automatic rate of fire...like the BAR for example, but the BAR sound, is an actual BAR firing...the MG42 sound is an actual MG42 firing, etc, etc.

#6: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:33 pm
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Hi Neil,
Thanks for the info ... I'll check it out.
Sorry for the rant ... I was on a map that seemed to be full of LOS holes, but now looking at some others, it seems mostly specific to that map. I'll still try and make some element file adjustments though, and see if I can get it more to my liking.
Thanks for explaining the reasons for keeping walk through walls ... I didn't realize a lot of testing and thought went into it.
and, no problem about the sounds ... just my opinion. I've already replaced some that I like better ... and will post it if I can get several more figured out. Then I'll be able to receive rants from others too. Smile

Thanks again

#7: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:26 am
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Quote:

There was an elements file for CCMT that performed pretty damn amazing...based on one from CCM6...

Hi again Neil,
any chance you could send me the elements file, you mentioned above, so I can copy the walls values, etc. into the tld elements file?
Might be a good starting point.

Thanks

#8: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:36 am
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Hi Neil,
no need to send that file ... should work OK monkeying around here.
Have it so soldiers can't walk through walls ... only problem so far is that Caen's buildings' exterior walls are coded entirely of stone wall, with no windows or doors. Not sure if any other maps have a similar problem.

Thanks again

also note: if anyone is interested ... TLD workbook v13 doesn't seem to match TLD element file.

#9: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:52 am
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Well, after some testing ... it appears you guys made the right decision regarding walk through walls. I was wrong.
It seemed on most maps it worked OK (with no walk through walls), but the map of Bayeux was too much for the little fellas. Total chaos and confusion concerning soldier pathing, and getting units to arrive anywhere together.

And, after entering quite a few maps to do the testing ... I have to go back to my original statement about this being a good deal for the price. It is a very good strategy game ... even with the few things I don't like. btw there are some good sounds too ... MG 34, .30 cal, etc.

Maybe I'll try to work on the line of sight tweaks and see where that goes.

Thanks again.

#10: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:00 pm
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The thing I disliked most about CC is no longer a problem. Very Happy

I changed all walls to "Block All LOS" in the "elements" file.
The result is:

1) line of sight only through doors and windows
2) only soldiers in front of doors or windows are able to fire
3) soldiers still able to move through walls

Because of these changes ... soldiers need to be positioned in area of buildings for best "line of sight" to target. Soldiers usually need to enter buildings for the entire unit to have LOS, as well as other obvious effects for defending and attacking.
In my opinion, more realistic.

The only problem I see so far is maps "Caen" and "Colombelles" have walls coded with no windows or doors ... therefore soldiers have no line of sight until they enter the building. There may be more maps like this too ... haven't had time to check all the maps yet. Maybe these maps could be recoded for the next patch?

I'll try and post it here as an attachment.

Back up your original "Elements" file ... found in:
C:\Matrix Games\Close Combat The Longest Day\DATA\BASE
then replace with this one ... after you unzip it.

Last edited by davidssfx on Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:27 am; edited 1 time in total

#11: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: yuma,

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:13 pm
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just be careful with machine guns in buildings when it shows green los and you check the soldier list and you find out everyone can see except the soldier with the mg. can lead to perpetual "crawling" and "setting up" scenerios.

#12: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:17 am
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yuma wrote (View Post):

just be careful with machine guns in buildings when it shows green los and you check the soldier list and you find out everyone can see except the soldier with the mg. can lead to perpetual "crawling" and "setting up" scenerios.

Thanks for the suggestion yuma ... looks like they (developers) made the right decision again.
I tested it more with both the original elements file and the one I changed ... and it appears that LOS is blocked too much having "Block All LOS" enabled.

I think I have a better understanding of the original elements file now. You get LOS through some of the walls when close up, but not through the same when further away. This enables LOS when adjacent to a wall. I guess the original elements file is the best when all things are considered.
Thanks again TLD makers, and sorry for the uneducated rant. Smile

#13: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:48 pm
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Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post):

If you want no LOS from walls, then you may like close combat modern tactics. Its quite realistic in that aspect.

Thanks for the heads up on this ... it would be interesting to see how they made things work.

#14: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:25 am
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I mentioned (several posts back) that I didn't like the TLD vehicles graphics very much ... but now I've changed my mind. After spending some more time in TLD, (and seeing more of the vehicles) I think they are very well done ... just took a little time getting used to the difference from CC3.
Thanks

#15: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: jockthesock,

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 7:31 pm
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yuma wrote (View Post):

Spot on, it would be nice if the los line came from the squads principal wpn rather than the guy with the spare barrel.

#16: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: vonB,

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:11 am
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Quote:

Probably my only real gripe with TLD. Not just buildings either. Set up an MG in a Bunker ready to mow down the advancing enemy, and before you know it, the MG Operator has decided to take a bit of time out, leaving some of the Team to take pot shots with their rifles. I mean.....! then try getting him back into position to start firing.

#17: Re: real walls mod for TLD Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:48 am
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vonB wrote (View Post):

This 'bug' was worse before the patch...but the best solution is reducing the number of men in MG teams.

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