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#41: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:07 am
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IMHO david, as your modding it to give the germans a little teeth etc.........give that BG its 9 Stugs too....and as Dima suggests, maybe a few MK 4's as well? but at least the full 9 Stugs.

RD Steiner

#42: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:08 am
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Taking advice from Dima and Steiner ... BG 901Pz.Gr./Panzer Lehr will be replaced by 130 Pz./Panzer Lehr.

Let's take a look at its order of battle to see what units should be included in its Force Pool.

Panzer-Lehr-Regiment 130

I. Panzer Abteilung
4 x Kompanie (Panther)

II. Panzer Abteilung
4 x Kompanie (Panzer IV)
Panzer-Kompanie (Funklenk) 316 (Tiger)

I. Panzer Abteilung is actually I/Pz.Rgt. 6, and wasn't sent into Normandy action until Jone 11th ... so no Panthers from I. Panzer Abteilung will be considered.

II. Panzer Abteilung was committed to action on June 9. Therfore... Panzer IV's, Tiger I's, and StuG III's will fill BG slots of 130 Pz./Panzer Lehr.

Reference:
The II./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 902 went into action on the morning of 8 June. The following day the II./Pz.Rgt. 130, Pz.Gren.Rgt. 901, I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 902 and Pz.Jäg.-Lehr-Abt. 130 were committed. On 10 June the Panther battalion arrived and it was sent into action the following day.

Another quote from Niklas Zetterling's Normandy 1944:
Also it seems that the Panzer-Kompanie 316 (Funklenk), which was attached to the Panzer Lehr Division, had three Tiger I's when it went to Normandy.Thus it is most likely that 126 Tiger I's participated in the Normandy Campaign.

The initial Active Roster will have:
Second Platoon:
1-Befehlspanzer IV H
2-Pz IV H
1-Tiger I
1-StuG III G

First Platoon:
1-Zugtrupp
1-PzGrenadiere (MG)
1-PzGrenadiere
1-Panzerschreck
1-sMG42

Support Teams:
1-Zugtrupp
1-SdKfz 251/1
1-5cm Mortar
1-Panzer Pioniere
1-Spahtrupp-Scouts

Totals:
1-Befehlspanzer IV H
12-Pz IV H
3-Tiger I
9-StuG III G
10-SdKfz 251/1

#43: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:20 am
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looks good to me.......some teeth Smile

#44: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:26 am
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Request
Could someone please post the WaR uniticons bmp ... so I can see if it has a Panzer icon I could hack out?

#45: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:03 am
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Quote:

Another quote from Niklas Zetterling's Normandy 1944:
Also it seems that the Panzer-Kompanie 316 (Funklenk), which was attached to the Panzer Lehr Division, had three Tiger I's when it went to Normandy.Thus it is most likely that 126 Tiger I's participated in the Normandy Campaign

.
The time Z. was written his book he was basing on report from early June 1944 that counted 3 T1 with 316.PzKp(Fkl).
Nowadays there are new reports found that state those 3 T1 were sent back to Germany shortly after 316.PzKp(Fkl) was deployed to St.Denis .

I suggest at least 1 SdKfz 251/10 to replace at least 1 Zugtrupp as PLD PzGrenBats were highly mechanized, actually the only PzD during the war that had HT for each Trupp.

Btw, StuGIIIG was renamed to StuGIII in early 1944 Smile

#46: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: 7A_Woulf, Location: Sweden

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:27 am
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Ah, back from 'the maniac weeks' at work! Cool

Nice work David (and Pzt_Kanov of coarse), a lot of progress since I last read this post. Looking forward to test your mod.

Cheers

#47: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:56 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

Hi Dima,
Do you have any reference to these new reports regarding the Tiger I's not participating in Normandy. I thought you just mixed up the fate of the Tiger II's which were supposed to get shipped back to Germany, but transport was busy ... and therefore the Tiger II's were destroyed at Chateaudun.

Thanks for the other suggestions.

#48: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:42 pm
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Quote:

Do you have any reference to these new reports regarding the Tiger I's not participating in Normandy

in 2003 (3 years after the book was released) Z. posted information (don't remember now what forum it was) that according to the new document found, on April 26, 1944 Tank School Bergen asked PLD to return 3 T1 it took there and chassis numbers were indicated. In May they received StuGIII as replacement. In July 1st report no T1 was with PLD, no T1 losses for June either Smile

.
All 5 KT remained at St.Denis till August and were destroyed there.

#49: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:02 pm
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links to some info below

Last edited by davidssfx on Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total

#50: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:05 pm
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Quote:

I'll keep them in game until these new reports can be verified.

yes, as I told before, they were counted with PLD in June report, so who cares Wink

#51: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:32 pm
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i say keep them in the game too. there in GJS mod as well. it adds a little spice to the game. after all its a mod......... Very Happy

#52: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:44 am
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This just came in from another forum:

According to Funklenkpanzer by Marcus Laugitz (ISBN 0-921991-58-4) and taken from a request from Pz Lehr:

"..Since the delivery of operational Tiger II's is unlikely at present, the division has - as a temporary measure - assigned 9 assault guns to the remote-control company from the 3./Pz.Jag.-Lehr-Abt 130 to supplement it's 3 Tiger I's. Company is therefore deemed conditionally operational.

Request your approval.
Panzer-Lehr-Division Operations
No. 1436/44 geheim, 19 May 1944 "

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428360

#53: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:29 am
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Looks like this has been debated before ... as Dima suggested. I'll post this next link and leave it at that.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=7345

#54: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:52 am
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its your mod......and u have our support i think...put the tigers in...the Stugs and the Mk4's........ Very Happy

#55: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:17 am
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stiener wrote (View Post):

its your mod......and u have our support i think...put the tigers in...the Stugs and the Mk4's........ Very Happy

yes, they are all included.
... thanks for sending me that bmp Smile

#56: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:45 pm
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active roster for 130

still need to adjust scout, mortar, schreck teams in other German BG's

Pz.130-Lehr Active Roster.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

246.21 KB

Viewed:

6896 Time(s)

#57: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:01 am
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looks like a BG i want to fight with!

#58: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: Dima,

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:38 am
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David,

there were no 5cm mortars in PLD.
Maybe it's good idea to add some Pumas? Wink

#59: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:00 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

David,

there were no 5cm mortars in PLD.
Maybe it's good idea to add some Pumas? Wink

ya ... the 5cm is a tough one to figure out for this mod. I realize they were being phased out and replaced by the 8cm, but since this mod is removing all 8cm mortars ... a compromise somewhere had to be made - historical vs. game play.

All medium/heavy mortars are now simulated by off map mortar barrages ... which is fine, but that leaves some German BG's without any light mortar fire and smoke. I've figured it best to just have low quantity 5cm mortar in all BG's to compensate for this. Probably not historical, but might be the best solution for the purpose of this mod.

I've seen 5cm mortars listed for some German units in Normandy, but since it is a small weapon ... it may not have been listed consistently throughout different record keeping. As you say though, there probably wasn't any in Lehr.

I'll put a couple of Puma's in though.

Thanks for your comments

#60: Re: Realism On Ground (ROG) mod Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:09 am
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Quote:

I've seen 5cm mortars listed for some German units in Normandy, but since it is a small weapon ... it may not have been listed consistently throughout different record keeping. As you say though, there probably wasn't any in Lehr.

5cm were listed with Type 1941 IDs only.
PzDs didn't have 5cm from 1941 Smile

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