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#1: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:52 pm
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Since 2006 there has been no major mods made for the rereleases. Why? Most likely because there is little interest in learning how to do it combined with there being a very small amount of people that even want to do it... and a small amount of people that even want to play the mods. Take the lack of interest and ask yourself if mods were eventually made, would it increase the life of the rereleases? I say no.

Should thier be any extra focus on making the re-releases moddable?

#2: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:50 pm
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Yes

#3: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:34 am
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Yes.

No there hasn't been a major mod but that doesn't mean there won't be one day.... And If/when it arrives I do play mods so it will increase the life of the re-releases for me....

#4: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:53 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

Since 2006 there has been no major mods made for the rereleases. Why? Most likely because there is little interest in learning how to do it combined with there being a very small amount of people that even want to do it... and a small amount of people that even want to play the mods. Take the lack of interest and ask yourself if mods were eventually made, would it increase the life of the rereleases? I say no.

Should thier be any extra focus on making the re-releases moddable?

Could this be the first thread started by der OberGlockenfuhrer of this site to be destined straight for a home the magic trainwreak thread?

Seriously Mooxe, has there been a bigger fan of anything or anyone since Mark David Chapman? As the owner of a fan site maybe you really should be a ... er ... well fan?

Statement #1 Since 2006 there has been no major mods made for the rereleases.

statement #2 Why? Most likely because there is little interest in learning how to do it combined with there being a very small amount of people that even want to do it... Yeah but that has always been the case, the percentage of people contributing towards modding even in CC heyday has always been small. These days as the average age of the players increases I'd suppose their disposable time is somewhat less than previous gamers. Add to that the global economic crisis where people are working harder than ever just to keep afloat. As you know modding a complete mod is a huge suckhole of time.
Actually since 2006 there have been very few mods released for any varient of CC

statement #3 and a small amount of people that even want to play the mods. based on what? the mods that no one is making and thus haven't been released yet? Sorry dude this makes no sense what so ever. This site exists for one reason... mods... I'll say it louder THIS IS A MOD SITE sorry but it is. Almost no one plays the stock games of any form of CC. Okay moving on...

statement #4 Take the lack of interest and ask yourself if mods were eventually made, would it increase the life of the rereleases? I say no. You say no, and thus it was wrote, the eleventh commandment? Seriously the least played of the old CCs was CC4. why? no mods was part of the reason. And when you're talking about life of the rereleases just what are you talking about? Do you think there'll be a point when the CC gamers will collectively set aside their rereleases and scrabble through cupbards and attics searching for the true unadulterated CC dics's. Dude you crack me up. The game will undoubtedly dwindle and die but no blame can be cast upon the rereleases. They've ignited a small interest and brought some players back. Surely that is good?

statement #5 Should thier be any extra focus on making the re-releases moddable? Hmm okay in what way? Should be able to nod your head like i dream of jeanie and magic up a mod, all the data, sixty four new maps? Do you want to be able to set out preset map sections like a trainset? Hmmm yeah, that'd be great. The tools are out there as they've always been and in fact are easier to use than when I first started. Excel or open office opens the data files, in fact opens more data file than before because the exe controls less now as i understand it.

I think what you're saying behind this dinky little speil of yours is that there is too much choice already in CC. I think that you're postulating that with the range of games and mods and the limited players that someone (and I'm supposing you) should control the world of CC like some Khymer rogue despot deciding what is worthy to keep the band of gamers together like some sort of high country sect.

And just in case you think i'm mouthing off... some of us are still working on CC mods

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#5: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:57 am
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and this

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#6: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:59 am
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and more

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#7: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:00 am
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again

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#8: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:02 am
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this makes 154 posts... guess that makes me a doer not a talker... and a true fan

#9: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:32 am
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Yes

I think this site should post more guides and tutorials on modding the CC games.

In general it is too negative and instead it should support and encourage the modding community.

I recommend you ban Dima for ripping shreds off anyone who puts forward ideas for mods... I think this would add a lot and increase the number of mods available.

#10: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:33 am
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I agree that the site is sometimes way too negative, and certainly this has been the case concerning the newer games.

My problem, is I enjoy CCMT so much, I probably couldn't bring myself to work on any thing else like TLD.

Surely CC2 Redux counts as a major mod. Question

I have a WF mod for CCMT, that basically just lacks a few UI graphics, but I have never been able to get somone to help me with the graphics. And besides, CCMT ranked at the bottom of CC game popularity.

And BTW, the maps look great, but wouldn't they be even better without the wooden structures, or do I not understand modern Europe. Question

#11: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: 7A_Woulf, Location: Sweden

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:36 am
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Shocked

OMG, hard words here already...

Personally I can't play stock-tLD, but when I find some time I will create a playable sub-mod and if I ever learn to create maps I have two ideas for full mods. With the tools for Excel I think the data for this re-release is damn easy to work with, so I can only say that the tLD kept my interest for CC and brought it a steep further. But as Southern said:

southern_land wrote (View Post):

These days as the average age of the players increases I'd suppose their disposable time is somewhat less than previous gamers. Add to that the global economic crisis where people are working harder than ever just to keep afloat.

I'm 36, a single-father of two kids and busting my balls at work. I can't hardly find any time over for playing or modding... Don't think I'm alone in that situation?

schrecken wrote (View Post):

In general it is too negative and instead it should support and encourage the modding community.

Is it? I've got a lot of help, all I've needed in fact. And as far as I've seen, so have everybody else who have asked something here...

schrecken wrote (View Post):

I recommend you ban Dima for ripping shreds off anyone who puts forward ideas for mods... I think this would add a lot and increase the number of mods available.

So... Me, Dima and everybody else who says that something isn't historical correct should be banned? Rolling Eyes

I don't say that every mod must follow the To&E of the units involved (damn, with other maps I'd loved the WH 40k mod!) but everyone have the right to say what they think. If you don't have the balls to stand for your ideas when someone is turning them down, it might have been a bad idea or you don't have what it takes to bring it to the finish-line.

As a conclusion: Even if I personally only play modded CCIII, CCIV - Kreta and modded CC5, I think the re-releases already brings the game further, attracting a few new players and offers new possibilities for modding.

#12: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:38 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

Yes

I think this site should post more guides and tutorials on modding the CC games.

In general it is too negative and instead it should support and encourage the modding community.

I recommend you ban Dima for ripping shreds off anyone who puts forward ideas for mods... I think this would add a lot and increase the number of mods available.

Schrecky you don’t seem to understand how many mods Dima has been involved in, either as a consult or as direct maker.

Instead it seems you have constant conflicts with most moders in this community.

To mention some of the moders you had numerous conflicts with:
1) Dima, co maker of Stalingrad, maker of Utah, GJS-TRSM and probley some more.
2) Sapa, maker of Karelia I/II, and Tali-I,
3) Therion, submod maker to CCMT, and small soldier mod maker
4) PJ, maker of SOC;SDK, SDKDK
5) Squadleader, in making of Soerabaja
6) Stwa, maker of may CCMT mods
7) PM, grapix mods in progress
Cool

Firefox, maker of many many many mods
9) [Moders name here]
10) Sbuf, maker of many mods, maps and totorials

Lets look at this stement:

schrecken wrote (View Post):

In general it is too negative and instead it should support and encourage the modding community.

In what way has your endless conflicts with the CC-moders support and encourage the making of mods?

schrecken wrote (View Post):

I recommend you ban Dima for ripping shreds off anyone who puts forward ideas for mods... I think this would add a lot and increase the number of mods available.

Who should be?

#13: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:58 pm
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Its a debate on whether or not the putting forth extra time into making the rereleases more moddable than they already are is actually worth it. Has it been so far? No it hasnt. Is it worth the time to create extra features within the CC2 rerelease to make it more moddable? Probably not.

Sorry SL, I couldnt be bothered reading all your rhetoric. Yes all posts will go to trainwrecks if people do not make constructive posts.

#14: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:39 pm
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Quote:

f people do not make constructive posts.

you mean like

Quote:

because there is little interest in learning how to

and

Quote:

lack of interest

priceless!

#15: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:14 pm
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There is some new blood out there doing things; davidssfx who joined: Sep 10, 2008 is working on TLD.

Also Buck_Compton said his next mod (or was it the next next mod) would be on a CC re-release version.

#16: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:09 pm
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When the new releases came out, there was a time when I thought people would migrate the existing mods to the new games.

I haven't kept up with things (apart from CCMT), so I wonder why this is not occurring.

Generally, the new system (TLD), should offer enough new features to make the migration project worthwhile.

Perhaps, this is NOT the case Question

(I don't know because I don't have TLD)

But if true, I think this fact alone would substantiate mooxe's comments.

Since I know CCMT will work with Windows 7, I am sure I will migrate (probably Stalingrad) to CCMT at some point in the future, it just wont be this year.

#17: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:50 pm
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I have migrated Meuse to TLD and do want to take advantage of the new features. The problem is the work involved to move to the new version and then understand the impact of the new features to play balance on a mod that was not designed to use them.

#18: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:20 am
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Why have moders not migrated to the new games…

The problem has been pointed to EVEN before WaR was relised, and argued by the moders many time after WaR was relised, BUT the developer has not listened..

The main problem is the strategy editing tool, or rather the missing strat edit tool for WaR and TLD. The CC5 moders had this tool for CC5, and it has been essential for moding the strat map.
I bet we will se porting of old CC5 - 44 map mods to TLD, but I doubt we see any or many 64 map mods or new strat may layouts as long as there is no strat edit tool.

However, seemingly many moders has given up moding CC after voicing this and the poor, slow respond from the developer.

But maybe it’s all to slow to late and to sad.

#19: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:27 am
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Quote:

But maybe it’s all to slow to late and to sad.

And maybe not

#20: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:37 pm
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And I think people wanting to make ports to the new releases are waiting for the serious bugs to be corrected. Hopefully they will be corrected and people will want to take advantage of the new features.

#21: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:49 am
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Why have moders not migrated to the new games…

The problem has been pointed to EVEN before WaR was relised, and argued by the moders many time after WaR was relised, BUT the developer has not listened..

The main problem is the strategy editing tool, or rather the missing strat edit tool for WaR and TLD. The CC5 moders had this tool for CC5, and it has been essential for moding the strat map.
I bet we will se porting of old CC5 - 44 map mods to TLD, but I doubt we see any or many 64 map mods or new strat may layouts as long as there is no strat edit tool.

However, seemingly many moders has given up moding CC after voicing this and the poor, slow respond from the developer.

But maybe it’s all to slow to late and to sad.

Doesn't Mafi's BED9v.1.02 thing work?

#22: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:50 am
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I also thought Firefox was able to put in a new strat map as well as Tejszd

#23: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:26 pm
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platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

I also thought Firefox was able to put in a new strat map as well as Tejszd

I have no idea what TJ is doing, but isnt FFs mod portings of old CC5 mods, thus strategy map editing is made in the old strategy editing tool for CC5. Creating a new strat map with 64 mas is another matter, totaly.

#24: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:43 pm
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platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Doesn't Mafi's BED9v.1.02 thing work?

Yeh, thanks for that info PM, I was not aware that Mafi has relised that tool (I have not read anything here for last two-three month, well hardly anything since last summer).

I loaded Mafis tool up. looks promessing, but I cant at first glance see how automatic it is and if its as super easy to use as the old strat edit to CC5, that automaticly cutting all the 500+ images naming em and setting therex-y position automatically. Maybe someone who tried it can give a quick summing up of it.

Said that no matter how automatic and user friendly it is, it seem to be a huge step forward, compared to the “NotBook” editing and manually slize and name each of the 500 images.
Maybe theres still hope for a "reall" new mod to the new games afterall.
Thanks for that Mafi, and thanx again PM

#25: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:40 pm
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It is not an automatic tool.

I have not used it but I see no difference than that to just using the .txt files.
But that's not a fault of the game.

Who's gonna Mod or even play a Mod from COI?
You date the post at being 2006 when the re-releases came out but all you clowns are die-hard strategic map fans?
I don't ever see any AAR's for COI or CCIII or any of the Mods for that game here.

I want to Bitch but come on lets Bitch about something that gets us going somewhere.

#26: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:42 pm
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Did the OP even think about what he was posting when he started this thread?

I think NOT Razz

#27: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:56 am
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I'm just waiting for the next re-release (CC2 ported to the enhanced CC5 engine?)...when is this thing due out anyway?

#28: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:02 am
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Yes, hopefully a great marriage...

#29: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:51 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Instead it seems you have constant conflicts with most moders in this community.

To mention some of the moders you had numerous conflicts with:
1) Dima, co maker of Stalingrad, maker of Utah, GJS-TRSM and probley some more.
2) Sapa, maker of Karelia I/II, and Tali-I,
3) Therion, submod maker to CCMT, and small soldier mod maker
4) PJ, maker of SOC;SDK, SDKDK
5) Squadleader, in making of Soerabaja
6) Stwa, maker of may CCMT mods
7) PM, grapix mods in progress
Cool

Firefox, maker of many many many mods
9) [Moders name here]
10) Sbuf, maker of many mods, maps and totorials

You have it wrong, as per Schreck, I did nothing.... its Flamethrower who has done so much...

And damn.. I would have though I was #1 on Shrecks hate list... but thats a very long list, so hitting the top 10 isnt too bad...

#30: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:29 pm
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As someone who is new to this site (although I've been playing CC since the beginning and only recently rediscovered it), I have to say that clearly there is a lot of history here between members (as happens with any gaming community), however I can't recall seeing a community so angry at itself.

You've all done some pretty great things (I've been working my way through the different games mods the last 2 months which I never knew existed until 2 months ago!).

I did notice the lack of mods for CoI, WaR and TLD and it did bother me a bit because I didn't understand why someone wouldn't want to take advantage of new features...but after reading a bit I do understand. I recently purchased all 3 games (CC3/CoI has long been my favorite) so I'm new to the whole strat map thing (although I do enjoy it!).

If anything, shouldn't you all be trying to figure ways to work together to keep the community strong and alive?

I've been a member of the Wing Commander community since the mid-1990s. We've held ourselves together through tough times and even have several of our own modding projects. One thing though, is that we always wanted the best for us all. Here it seems like you are all on edge with each other. Now granted I'm the plebe, here but I certainly think that a more positive outlook and general encouragement of the community would pay huge dividends. Now you can read what I say or just dismiss me as some new guy who knows nothing (which I'd certainly hope not....like I said I've been part of a close knit game community for almost 20 years now...and we haven't had a full real game released since 1999!), but I sincerely hope I, at the very least, create some issues to discuss.

I would love to see some of the great mods ported to WAR or TLD or COI (whichever works I guess for the mod) and I would play them all.

#31: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:04 pm
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Dundradal wrote (View Post):

I would love to see some of the great mods ported to WAR or TLD or COI (whichever works I guess for the mod) and I would play them all.

I only modded CC3 (Began to work on moads for CC2 and CC5.. but just got in over my head to do it alone!) and from what I remember when COI was released, it isnt too hard to covnert CC3 mods to COI. I just am not sure for other versions.

So from what I know for CC3 to COI, its just a matter of someone converting them, its probably just a supply and demand thing, if people dont want it that bad.. then they wotn get it any tiem soon, or one step further, wont reach out to do it themselves.

But really over the past 5-6 years, there hasnt been alot of people, doing things outside CC5. Not converting mods, making maps, guides for previous versions ect ect. Again, note I said ALOT of people, there has been some. And as you noticed, theres alot of bad blood that is IMHO past the point of return, and those at opposite sides of this little war are the ones who were doing these important things. The line is drawn between alot of modders (the more populated end of the debate) and the developpers. the universal feeling between both groups is that they feel the work that was put in and is being put in is not appreciated. (It boils down to 'was' and 'is.)

The end product is the community is a shell of what it used to be, and the call "Its an old game what do you expect?" doesnt hold ground with me, there are older games communities still around that are far far far more together that the fractured CC group.

As big as a knob Shreck is, hell have a better reply for whats invovled in conversion of older mods to the rereleases. In fact I am sure hed welcome soemone to help. Provided of course you kiss his ass and never say anything bad about the rereleases, whcih are the greatest things ever made in gaming community.

#32: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:56 pm
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CoI MODS

http://closecombat.matrixgames.com/CoI/coimods.html

#33: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:33 pm
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CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

[

The end product is the community is a shell of what it used to be, and the call "Its an old game what do you expect?" doesnt hold ground with me, there are older games communities still around that are far far far more together that the fractured CC group.

As big as a knob Shreck is, hell have a better reply for whats invovled in conversion of older mods to the rereleases. In fact I am sure hed welcome soemone to help. Provided of course you kiss his ass and never say anything bad about the rereleases, whcih are the greatest things ever made in gaming community.

I agree with your first statement...over in the WC community (wcnews.com) we've held ourselves together quite nicely and try to avoid stuff that will fracture us. It seems that here unfortunately things got too hot, which brings me to your second statement.

Why even say something like that? I'm a new member and that's what you state to me about the community? It's things like that that push people away and say "screw this!"

Shouldn't you all be working towards the common goal of new games with new features that expand the community? It seems odd that people are so willing to shoot themselves in the foot.

#34: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:34 pm
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And I knew where the CoI mods were...but thanks for the link...I've been playing Der Ost Front on CoI on and off as well.

#35: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:36 pm
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Quote:

It seems odd that people are so willing to shoot themselves in the foot.

Unfortunately there is a small but vocal group that don';t play the game but hang out in the forums bad mouthing everything and everyone that comes along.

It started years ago with the lament that this game has never been updated... which was true as the developer, Atomic Games, just walked away leaving the last of the series (CC5) in quite a sorry state.

Fortunately a group of community members got together and have managed to breathe life into the game through the re-releases and updates.... this has been a great volunteer effort as all had real jobs and families to consider.

There is also a group who have played for free for years by downloading illegal copies of the game, this site even hosted illegal copies for a while... the new releases are not compatible with the these games so they feel ripped off... LOL.

The owner of this site has only recently returned to playing CC, due to the re-releases no doubt, after previously stating he doesn't play anymore.

So, although the "community" has it's problems things are looking up.

Visits to this site are at an all time high , I believe, as is the volume of downloaded mods etc. from this site, also the community H2H campaigns and community V AI campaigns looked to be quite successful... check the number of visits to those threads.

The "community" is strong, it is vibrant and it is full of characters... that's what makes a community.

#36: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:06 am
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

Unfortunately there is a small but vocal group that don';t play the game but hang out in the forums bad mouthing everything and everyone that comes along.

Then why aren't they simply banned if they continue to act stupid?

Quote:

It started years ago with the lament that this game has never been updated... which was true as the developer, Atomic Games, just walked away leaving the last of the series (CC5) in quite a sorry state.

In the Wing Commander community our developer continued to have projects cancelled after the last game release (Wing Commander Secret Ops in 1998...the first internet downloadable episodic game!) until Origin Systems was disbanded in 2004. Since then there has been several mods in development and one that has been fully completed...Wing Commander Standoff.

Quote:

Fortunately a group of community members got together and have managed to breathe life into the game through the re-releases and updates.... this has been a great volunteer effort as all had real jobs and families to consider.

There is also a group who have played for free for years by downloading illegal copies of the game, this site even hosted illegal copies for a while... the new releases are not compatible with the these games so they feel ripped off... LOL.

These things always seem to work that way when it comes to keeping the flame going...think of all the games that have NO community. Mods and H2H work well in CC's favor. For WC, it was story interwoven into space combat..video game space opera at its best.

WC games are fairly easy to find on ebay and other places for cheap money. Doing a search for CC yields quite a few inflated game prices (especially for CC5).

Quote:

The owner of this site has only recently returned to playing CC, due to the re-releases no doubt, after previously stating he doesn't play anymore.

After rediscovering my CC cds during a move I stumbled across this site. I was actually already familiar with Matrix Games as I'm a longtime player of Carriers at War. From here at CCS I discovered the rereleases...and purchased all 3. Granted I've been mostly playing CC5 mods lately...I have been playing a WAR GC with a new friend I met through Hamachi. I've also got a Der Ost Front GC going in CoI, games in WAR, TLD, etc, etc...it's been fun playing catch up....

Quote:

So, although the "community" has it's problems things are looking up.

Visits to this site are at an all time high , I believe, as is the volume of downloaded mods etc. from this site, also the community H2H campaigns and community V AI campaigns looked to be quite successful... check the number of visits to those threads.

The "community" is strong, it is vibrant and it is full of characters... that's what makes a community.

The fact you have commercial games coming out still is an excellent sign. The mods section here is impressive. I was taken aback when I first browsed it.

I'm glad I've discovered this place and hope to become a fairly regular part of the community.

#37: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:16 pm
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I used to mod CCMT a lot. I didn't make anything major because I don't have any computer graphics skills.
Sadly, I was forced out of the CC scene because Wine is unable to run CC series properly Sad

#38: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: mooxe,

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:44 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

The owner of this site has only recently returned to playing CC, due to the re-releases no doubt, after previously stating he doesn't play anymore.

Now thats taken out of context. I probably said I dont play (using my illegal shared copies) much anymore, but I never stopped playing (my 100% pirated copies) completely.

schrecken wrote (View Post):

There is also a group who have played for free for years by downloading illegal copies of the game, this site even hosted illegal copies for a while...

Are you sure that should be past tense?

#39: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:55 pm
—
In a nut shell as I see it............

1)The problem lies in the fact that those who do complain were here back in the Hey day of CC.
They want to see that Hey day again with lots of people playing online and great mods once again produced.

2) The Mods that were first released for CCIV(VetBoB,TrueGreen) and CCV (GJS) were considered MUST have Mods.
these were the mothers of all Mods because they were the first of their kind.

3)Since then many Mods have been release but none have seem to taken the roll of MUST HAVE Mods.

4)Online gameplay has died as has an appropriate ONE SITE for all to congregate.

5)We we cheated by Atomic with a shitty CCV and never got a proper patch for it,instead we were told BUY THIS NEW GAME

6)The re-releases despite having many UPGRADES over its previous version still has many bugs some of which has had to be forced down the throat of those who created it to be considered a bug and HAS NOT been able to duplicate the HEY DAY we all so much crave.

#40: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:59 pm
—
It doesn't matter if Southland creates many many Mods for CC or starts however many threads about his up-coming Mods,the fact remains that nothing was done to draw new attention to an OLD game.

Yes we love it with the TOP down VIEW,The Older graphics,the lack of OOoohhhh Aaaahhhhh graphics.
But those are the very same things that wont attract the HEY DAY those of us remember

#41: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:56 am
—

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

1)The problem lies in the fact that those who do complain were here back in the Hey day of CC.
They want to see that Hey day again with lots of people playing online and great mods once again produced.

1) Its not a problem. I dont care about the hey days. I don't like the fact that these rereleases are so off the cuff, seat of your pants push it out the door projects. 10 years after the last classic version was released we still have the same old game with a ton of strategic add-ons that are half tested and bugged all to hell. The decision makers are holding the game back from a higher potential by inserting these bugged features and not focusing on the tactical phase. There is very little testing, no "checks and balances". There is very few people actually doing the work to make the game better. There is just half baked ideas hacked into the game and sold as, "hey atleast you are getting a "new" game after all these years!" The word atleast means we are compromising.

New maps and new strategic maps do not make a new Close Combat. New tactical features, less bugs, updated graphics (or atleast stop shortcutting on the "3d" buildings and vehicles) and a consolodation of all the great features of all Close Combat versions make a new Close Combat. With the CC2 rerelease we will once again see a slew of new strategic features, more maps that are probably made from cut and paste sections of a 1000 previous maps but nothing new to the actual Close Combat.

Summary - 10 years later we are still at square one with just as many bugs. Thats whats annoying me, and many others.

#42: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:11 am
—
Night battle, teams that are short members and equipment, elimination of the crawl of death, are a few of things that immediately come to mind as features added to tactical battles.... all for the good I think.

#43: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:26 am
—

schrecken wrote (View Post):

...elimination of the crawl of death,

Yep...replaced with the lovely Girlie Soldiers(TM) for the rereleases? Smile

I'm glad that at least with the latest CCTLD patch this "AI enhancement feature" has finally been fixed properly and actually works quite well now Very Happy

#44: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:36 am
—
so stop whinging then :)

or do you just like whinging for the sake of it?

#45: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:37 am
—

schrecken wrote (View Post):

so stop whinging then :)

or do you just like whinging for the sake of it?

BTW, will there ever be a GS(TM) fix for CCWAR (also CoI and CCMT)?

#46: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:39 am
—

mooxe wrote (View Post):

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

I agree with this assessment completely.

The game is graphics AND data intensive, and cannot rid itself of every anomolie.

But, the investment dollars dried up.

I think I could declare CCMT officially DEAD. I might be the only person on the planet playing the game at all. Question

#47: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: southern_land,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:57 am
—

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

In a nut shell as I see it............

2) The Mods that were first released for CCIV(VetBoB,TrueGreen) and CCV (GJS) were considered MUST have Mods.
these were the mothers of all Mods because they were the first of their kind.

3)Since then many Mods have been release but none have seem to taken the roll of MUST HAVE Mods.

.

Ok in my new vein of positivity... if these are the mods to have, everything is there, maps, data, graphics ... go for it get permission from the creators if possible and take them through to the new model game. Seriously, if they are what you want to play and you think they'd be popular with those players that are left mod them... why not?

#48: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Sapa,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:58 am
—

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

In a nut shell as I see it............

1)The problem lies in the fact that those who do complain were here back in the Hey day of CC.
They want to see that Hey day again with lots of people playing online and great mods once again produced.

2) The Mods that were first released for CCIV(VetBoB,TrueGreen) and CCV (GJS) were considered MUST have Mods.
these were the mothers of all Mods because they were the first of their kind.

3)Since then many Mods have been release but none have seem to taken the roll of MUST HAVE Mods.

4)Online gameplay has died as has an appropriate ONE SITE for all to congregate.

5)We we cheated by Atomic with a shitty CCV and never got a proper patch for it,instead we were told BUY THIS NEW GAME

6)The re-releases despite having many UPGRADES over its previous version still has many bugs some of which has had to be forced down the throat of those who created it to be considered a bug and HAS NOT been able to duplicate the HEY DAY we all so much crave.

The first real CCV mod made was The Meuse Crossing by Luer and Moloch, same guys made the first real mod for CCIV, The Winter War, just a note ;)

/Mats

#49: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:18 am
—
Sapa is correct, Luer and Moloch were the makers of the 1st mods of the CC games with a strat map.

Though, it must be acknowledged that while the strat maps look different for those mods they really were the same layout as the original game.

#50: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:15 am
—
In that context then.... GJS was the first real mod of the Strat. map series of game... a mighty fine effort too.

Although, in my view, if you change so much as one weapons data you have created a real mod.

#51: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Linebacker,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:33 am
—

Quote:

Its not a problem. I dont care about the hey days. I don't like the fact that these rereleases are so off the cuff, seat of your pants push it out the door projects. 10 years after the last classic version was released we still have the same old game with a ton of strategic add-ons that are half tested and bugged all to hell. The decision makers are holding the game back from a higher potential by inserting these bugged features and not focusing on the tactical phase. There is very little testing, no "checks and balances". There is very few people actually doing the work to make the game better. There is just half baked ideas hacked into the game and sold as, "hey atleast you are getting a "new" game after all these years!" The word atleast means we are compromising.

When reading statements like this for the past 2 years, it's a wonder how any of the dedicated volunteers have any motivation left at all. But they do. Yes, the team is small, but that is only because there has turned out to be very few trustworthy people willing to work for free in the community, so that small team of volunteers continues to give their time and talents for free in an effort to complete the contract between the old Simtek and Destineer, in the hopes that they will get out from underneath the license agreement with enough resources to build something completely new from the ground up. Why? For all of you guys...the same people that ridicule and attack them for things they have no control over. The fact is, the game can't move forward until the contract is complete, plain and simple.

"Half Baked Ideas Hacked Into The Game"--that would actually be a fitting description of the original code. Multiple programmers working at different times with different styles and ideas just throwing crap together. I wouldn't call the 3-4 months of full time coding that went into WAR, the 2-3 months of full time coding that went into TLD, and the 4-6 months of coding that have went into the CC2 re-release...so far...a hack job. Sifting through, cleaning up and adding to the mess that was the CC code is time consuming. Some ideas have been mulled over for weeks to try and come up with something that will work and be easy for modders to work with. You guys may not like them, but 'half-baked hacks' is far from the phrase that I would use to describe them.

So give them a break...if the people actually putting the time in had any input into how things go, I'm sure things would be different. They're just doing the best the can...the grunts slogging away at the front lines under orders of the men in the rear

#52: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Sapa,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:37 am
—
Luer and Moloch made their mod before the strat tool was created ;)

i think there has been questions about tools before? Wink

#53: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:36 pm
—

Stwa wrote (View Post):

The game is graphics AND data intensive, and cannot rid itself of every anomolie.

But, the investment dollars dried up.

Graphics and data is easy to fix and it doesn't require paying anyone. The main financial problem are engine updates and removing the engine bugs.

Stwa wrote (View Post):

I think I could declare CCMT officially DEAD. I might be the only person on the planet playing the game at all. Question

There are some CCMT players in Poland. I played H2H with one, it was pretty fun. We planned playing a 3x3 battle with the others but then I had to move to Linux and I can't play CC any more.

#54: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Linebacker,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:53 pm
—
[quote=]
Graphics and data is easy to fix and it doesn't require paying anyone. The main financial problem are engine updates and removing the engine bugs.
[/quote]

That is hilarious. I never thought about how easy it is, when I put almost 1000 hours into WAR graphics. And data being easy...that's always how mods have ended up like crap. No effort put into the data.

#55: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:15 pm
—
[quote="Therion";p="50200"]

Stwa wrote (View Post):

Graphics and data is easy to fix and it doesn't require paying anyone. The main financial problem are engine updates and removing the engine bugs.

Something like that you need to campaign the developer for. While at times Matrix drives me up the wall, they also have a gaming niche I absolutely love. If the company receives enough emails, phone calls, etc from PAYING customers (that's key here...and maybe a reason some here feel that the developer has told them to piss off...would you want to support a community that on the one hand is supporting your work but on the other distributing the old product for free? (Which you can still find and purchase online if you look) I can understand why at times the developer might not want to update the game if they feel that the community will just stick it to them. Now this might not be the case, I'm just posing an example.

Also, haven't any of the older community members formed relationships with the developers? Not to beat a dead horse here, but in the WC community we've embraced former Origin employees on the forums and many of us are personal friends with former and potential future developers on the franchise. Having connections like this will do great things for you (For us in WC it's given us access to all kinds of things we would have never of had before...and it reached a climax when WC News was given permission to post the entire WC Secret Ops game back...after 10 years of being told not to post Episodes 2-7)

I'm not going to judge this site for choosing to host illegal copies, but at the same time you can't get made at the developer for giving you the cold shoulder. I would do the same if I thought someone was demanding something from me while at the same time stealing...

#56: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:41 pm
—
And hi to you to.

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

...would you want to support a community that on the one hand is supporting your work but on the other distributing the old product for free?

On what base are you saying this site is distributing pirate copies?? If you refer to the (short) time CC2 was hosted here, it was regarded as abandon ware and it soon was made clear it was not, it was removed.

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

I can understand why at times the developer might not want to update the game if they feel that the community will just stick it to them. Now this might not be the case, I'm just posing an example.

Are you suggesting that the developer make poor games on purpose, with poor data and buggy as hell just because some pirate there product, and this is the reason why they don’t fix and update CCMT, WaR and TLD?

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

Also, haven't any of the older community members formed relationships with the developers?

Well, the community use to go hand in hand with the current developer, the developer run a cc site named CSO since 1997.
And one sunny day some years back, they got the rights to “develop” CC, and all was fine to begin with, until they realised COI.
Then the CSO-community (mostly CC3-ers) started to bring forward complains about that product, and the developer systematically iron fisted em and anyone who dared to suggest that there product had flaws (look at this thread, page 1, post 4 and 9, they are illustrative of what I mean).
The CSO site is today all but dead, non except the developer dares post there and non have done so for years…
I supose thats what they (really) mean with when they talk about "positive"?

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

I'm not going to judge this site for choosing to host illegal copies,

Ok Judge, …. Illegal … copies …

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

I would do the same if I thought someone was demanding something from me while at the same time stealing...

Stealing… a community made up by thieves…. Isnt that nice.. Wellcome "mate".. My mother keeps warning me about the bad company... Dont whant to be mixed in with em do we,

Any more deep insight about this community you whant to share with us?

#57: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Sapa,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:36 pm
—

schrecken wrote (View Post):

In that context then.... GJS was the first real mod of the Strat. map series of game... a mighty fine effort too.

Although, in my view, if you change so much as one weapons data you have created a real mod.

I thought Okinawa was the first with a new stratmap?

#58: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:00 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

And hi to you to.

Hello.

Quote:

Bottom of this page has a link to CC torrents on Piratebay.

Quote:

No, I'm not saying that at all. I said that could be one of many reasons and said it was only an example. I have no clue why they aren't doing patches, but I'll be sure to make my voice heard over at Matrix about the issue. I paid for a product and I expect support.

Quote:

Information I was not aware of...that's certainly unfortunate. I took some time and read some of the posts over there and do see what you are saying. Instead of being supportive, the developers mock users lack of knowledge at times. It was really sad to see and read. Although I did see glimmers of hope in there as well...

By positive, I meant relations that are constructive, looking at CSO, it appears that the admins don't know how to ignore harsh criticism and focus on what is good and what they need to improve. Instead, I see both positive and negative comments over there. I think they just need to be told some old advice, "Don't take it personally, but take it seriously" when it comes to people's thoughts.

Quote:

Ok Judge, …. Illegal … copies …

See now why are you trying to incite me here? I was expressing what I thought...I see a link that goes to Piratesbay...did I make a mistake? If so please tell me.

Quote:

Stealing… a community made up by thieves…. Isnt that nice.. Wellcome "mate".. My mother keeps warning me about the bad company... Dont whant to be mixed in with em do we,

Instead of engaging in a friendly discussion right off the bat you are trying to anger and entice me. I never said this was a community of thieves those are your own words. I stated what I thought was occurring. As I have said, I'm new here so I'm trying to figure everything out. Luckily, I don't take little pokes seriously, so hopefully one day we can maybe play a battle or two then swap war stories after over beers.

Quote:

Any more deep insight about this community you whant to share with us?

I'm glad to know you all are still here supporting a great gaming franchise. I'm glad to know people learned to mod this game and have produced some amazing mods. I've been, for the most part, warmly welcomed here and I appreciate that.

If anything I'd say keep the eyes on the prize...more CC is what we all want right?

And nice to meet you and hopefully we can maybe play a game or two soon!

#59: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:14 pm
—

Quote:

Instead of being supportive, the developers mock users lack of knowledge at times. It was really sad to see and read.

Any links to those posts?

#60: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:23 pm
—
Sure...I was reading this CSO CoI Thread. The "mood" of the thread swings back and forth at times and seems to at least end near the positive side...but there were some posts in there that I found off putting.

#61: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:37 pm
—
That COI thread looks almost like the WAR thread. Laughing

#62: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:38 pm
—

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

Bottom of this page has a link to CC torrents on Piratebay.

Not all on pirate bay is illegal. The link go there because u may download mods from there, and in that way relive the stress on the limited bandwhide on this site. Though i belive thats no problem no more, maybe Mooxe can validate that.

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

indeed, Puts things in perspective doesn’t it. Though most horrible things they posted is since deleted. The thing u see them say here and the constant provocations you see here they already practiced and developed at CSO years ago.
So its well rehearsed and all in the party line.
One wonder whats "positive" with killig the CC3- CSO community, just becose the CSO community have issues with there product?

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

By positive, I meant relations that are constructive, looking at CSO, it appears that the admins don't know how to ignore harsh criticism and focus on what is good and what they need to improve. Instead, I see both positive and negative comments over there. I think they just need to be told some old advice, "Don't take it personally, but take it seriously" when it comes to people's thoughts.

see answer abow.

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

See now why are you trying to incite me here? I was expressing what I thought...I see a link that goes to Piratesbay...did I make a mistake? If so please tell me.

Not at all, I was more amazed about all the hm "flammable" words used, as in pirating, judging, illegal, etc..
Amazed as in if you read yer post abow one more time, pretending that I posted that in your wing command site.
Amazed in that way.

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

Instead of engaging in a friendly discussion right off the bat you are trying to anger and entice me.

Not at all, well, se answer abow.

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

And nice to meet you and hopefully we can maybe play a game or two soon!

Hoping so.

#63: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:45 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Ahh see I did not know that. Thanks!

Quote:

I understand your sentiments now. It is unfortunate people feel the need to act that way, although I can sort of understand...you pour your soul into something and then people attack it...however in most cases that this occurs it's a few jerks...being jerks....here people have legitimate complaints and they ignore them. If they have access to the source code, then it shouldn't be too hard to fix the bugs...just need some testers to compile them and then confirm them fixed.

Quote:

Ahh I see. I was using those words because I wasn't sure...hence why I specifically said I wouldn't judge...because I didn't know. Hence why I was looking for clarification. Thanks.

And a quick note, it's not my WC site, I'm just a longtime member. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Quote:

Hoping so.

Well glad to know we were on the same page. Sometimes it's hard to understand someone's intent with text, no matter how clear you make it.

No hard feelings... Very Happy

#64: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:14 pm
—
Not hosting mod torrents here anymore. At the time I was doing the torrents TPB keps having legal issues and the site would be up and down so I stopped since it became too much trouble. Still on my back burner tho.

#65: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 2:10 am
—
Hopefully the silent majority is still out there.

Most people posting are usually at either end of the spectrum on their opinion of re-releases. But then you will never please everyone.

If you asked people what they wanted in the re-releases which MUST be done to get the source code, based on what has been posted before, then what would you do with it?

Some want a straight re-release which is backwards compatible (maybe fixed a few bugs) while some others want new features (since the developer has access to the source code) but that breaks backwards compatibility.

Based on what the developer has done even they have gone back and forth.

COI - very close to a straight re-release though it is not backwards compatible. This pissed off a lot of people as they thought it would be more than it was.
CCMT - very close to CCM (US marines version for training) which gave a lot of new features but also removed a lot of features (ex. any sort of campaign game).
WAR - an enhanced version of CC4 not backwards compatible.
TLD - an enhanced version of CC5 not backwards compatible.

For me TLD is the best CC version with its new features and the old CC5 bugs fixed. Yes, it does have some of its own bugs which hopefully will get fixed but even with them it has more features and stability than CC5. The big downside though is all the great old CC5 mods do not work on it....

#66: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:02 am
—
OK Great Exclamation

But since, you have converted Meuse to run with TLD, can you estimate how many hours that project required. Idea

If so, can we see what it would take to convert some other mod, like Stalingrad to TLD. Question

#67: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:11 am
—

CSO_Linebacker wrote (View Post):

[quote=]
Graphics and data is easy to fix and it doesn't require paying anyone. The main financial problem are engine updates and removing the engine bugs.

That is hilarious. I never thought about how easy it is, when I put almost 1000 hours into WAR graphics. And data being easy...that's always how mods have ended up like crap. No effort put into the data.[/quote]

Gee, I think Therion, was mainly addressing the issue of financing.

Regarding the skill required to do a job, its hard to imagine putting 1000 hours into anything. I wasn't there, so I wont comment futher, only to say that if these hours represented work and not simply duration, some eyebrows must have been raised.

#68: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:10 am
—

Stwa wrote (View Post):

OK Great

But since, you have converted Meuse to run with TLD, can you estimate how many hours that project required. Idea

If so, can we see what it would take to convert some other mod, like Stalingrad to TLD. Question

Pure speculation here: but in an ideal world if you were to move say Stalingrad to TLD would you create more maps or stick with CC5 versions 43? Same question applies to anyone else. Personnaly I love the enhanced strat map and the greater flexibility it provides and more CC5 mods have a selection of maps that could be adapted to suit. The principle ones that would prove difficult are Stalingrad (summer) and GJS with the slightly altered colour pallettes

#69: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:13 am
—
OK,

If the Stalingrad (Summer) maps are problematic, then how about the Winter ones? There are a lot of those.

Can't someone with previous experinece with the conversion, itemize and publish the required steps?

Furthermore, couldn't a straigt conversion (without enhancements) be accomplished first?

Once operational, then a second project to add additonal content, could be contemplated.

#70: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:26 pm
—

CSO_Linebacker wrote (View Post):

[quote=]
Graphics and data is easy to fix and it doesn't require paying anyone. The main financial problem are engine updates and removing the engine bugs.

That is hilarious. I never thought about how easy it is, when I put almost 1000 hours into WAR graphics. And data being easy...that's always how mods have ended up like crap. No effort put into the data.[/quote]
I meant "easy" in comparison to the engine stuff which in present conditions seems to be unachievable. And I refered mostly to the financing side. After all Shrecken said that almost everyone who work on re-releases are unpaid volunteers.
Graphics in WaR look great - much better than in CC4 and CC5 IMHO, but the engine still leaves a lot be wished and still lacks mayor upgrades.

#71: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:48 pm
—

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

Nah. The main problem is that the Matrix decided that buying the rights to CC was a big enough cost and decided that they'll release modded games with small engine tweaks for full prices of new games.
They overhype the new releases like they were a second coming of Christ (despite that they didn't want to put enough money into development.).
The most grotesque it was when they have released CCMT and wrote about how it has a "Accurate and realistic modern equipment modeling" and
"Accurately depicting modern tactical warfare and it’s challenge" in product description despite that the data is wrong and the engine doesn't simulate modern equipment (ATGMs, especially the wire-guided and top attack ones, ERA armour, composite armour, various sensors, AA weapons, etc. etc. etc.) and the single player version doesn't feature a functional AI. I wonder if they know what "accurate" means.

Anyway, they didn't bother to release a patch that would fix it or fix the product description and offer refunds despite that they were notified about that a few years ago.

#72: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:00 pm
—
I would echo some of the points that Therion made about Matrix and CCMT.

I would also like people to know that I bought 4 games from Matrix over a period of years. 3 of them were crap IMHO. And 3 of them weren't really complete or play tested thouroughly when I purchased them.

So, I am done with them.

However, I am not sure if CCMT, counts as a re-release, but I know that I will mess with it over the next few years and in the end, I am glad I picked it up. But I am thinking it will be my last purchase of any CC game.

If I feel that way, I am fairly sure others must feel that way too.

#73: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:03 pm
—
They do have a bad habit of releasing buggy games....I'm a long time player of Carriers at War. I purchased the update when it came out...and was so-so with it. It's missing alot of the original's stuff but adds a few nicer graphics and map...however I recently started playing H2H with someone...and the MP game is full of bugs! The game typically crashes after 3 or 4 days of ingame time pass....sometimes sooner.

They definitely have some issues. I'm going to keep hounding them about the MMCC3 servers until something is done. I encourage everyone else to simply fill up the help desk with CC-related requests. That's the best way to get their attention.

Make detailed bug reports and put them into the help desk. All of us can report them over and over...until either they drive off a cliff to avoid us or do something about it...

#74: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:01 pm
—
If you have issues with your games i can only encourage you to contact the helpdesk at Matrixgames.... that's what it is there for.

#75: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:20 pm
—
That's what I do.

CAW actually has a built in crash/bug reporter. Every time I've had a MP crash, both myself and my opponent, fill out the crash report form as completely as possible. Not sure where they actually go, but I do mention them at the help desk.

#76: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:59 pm
—

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

They definitely have some issues. I'm going to keep hounding them about the MMCC3 servers until something is done. I encourage everyone else to simply fill up the help desk with CC-related requests. That's the best way to get their attention.

Make detailed bug reports and put them into the help desk. All of us can report them over and over...until either they drive off a cliff to avoid us or do something about it...

Good idea. It would be amusing to see the help desk flooded with CC topics Very Happy

. Don't forget to spam demands for implementation of the promised features in CCMT, guys Very Happy

.

Another good idea would be to expose the actions of Matrix Games on other strategic game forums, write user reviews of their CC re-releases on gaming sites, etc.

#77: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:00 pm
—
Oh, I see that their helpdesk isn't public. So, their public forums could use an invasion too.

#78: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Linebacker,

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:56 pm
—

Therion wrote (View Post):

Get your facts straight. Matrix didn't buy the rights. Simtek made a rights agreement with Destineer. Simtek would work on the re-releases, but Destineer gets the largest cut of the pie from the 3, or more, hands going into the pie as the rights holder. Simtek goes the way of the Dodo, and Strategy3Tactics evolves from the ashes in an effort to complete the Simtek contract with Destineer...all the while hoping that their piece of the pie...the smallest of all the hands in the pie...will be enough to produce a brand new game on a brand new engine once out from underneath the licensing rights.

Therion, you were never this angry as a tester fro CCMT

#79: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Linebacker,

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:10 pm
—

Stwa wrote (View Post):

Regarding the skill required to do a job, its hard to imagine putting 1000 hours into anything. I wasn't there, so I wont comment futher, only to say that if these hours represented work and not simply duration, some eyebrows must have been raised.

Hard to imagine putting 1000 hours into anything?...that's only about 6 months of working at a full-time job 40 hours a week. I take it you're not a career man yet. It's not quite as simple when you can't cut and paste copyrighted pictures into the gui and gadgets.

Pulled out the old excel database, and my exact total was 937.25 hours...so I guess technically, it's closer to 900 hours, although, it is still nearly 1000 hours on the project. Why would it raise eyebrows? I was a volunteer.

Someone else wanted to know how many hours were involved in a mod conversion. I can say that for my part before my old comp died...why I was not involved in the longest day...I had logged about 120 hours into the GJS conversion to TLD of GUI, data, and stratmap.txt. HD died and never went back to finish.

#80: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: vonB,

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:45 pm
—
I have to laugh when I hear those who blithely comment about Community Modding being able to develop anything remotely like a Core Game engine of the level of CC. They measure these things in multiples of man years....

Say a Team of 5 programmers work for 2 years to build a good AI. That's 10 man years. What do you pay a good programmer? $50K/Year? $100K/year? So that's around $500,000 for the AI if not more, and we have only just started on costing a commercial release. I once said that I reckon it would need an investment of around $3,000,000 to be able to promote CC to the next level. That's because it needs a rewrite, not a Mod. What's more, I think it would take a lot more effort than that to develop a really top class AI. Now I come to think about it, I think it would take a lot more overall. If you reckon you can do it for nothing, then you have my blessing, but also my scepticism.

Convert that into commercial terms.

That's $3,000,000 Profit to cover the cost and break even. How much have you got to sell to make $3,000,000 profit? Then there is the cost of borrowing the money (well, you don't think they are going to let you have it for nothing do you?). The License/Copyright owners will want thier payback, then the distributors, then the Executives want their cut, and the shareholders, and you want some more to help invest in promoting the next release(s)?

Now, I am guesstimating these numbers I admit, but I do not think they are unrealistic. You think CC or anything like it is going to make that kind of money? Mmmmm......

In comparison, Matrix operate on the cheap (relatively speaking). I am not knocking them for that. They cannot do what they cannot afford to do. You can make Mods for nothing because you choose to. That is not an option for commercial enterprises like Matrix. They have their staff, premises, Technology and all the overheads of running a commercial business. As it is they benefit from many enthusiasts willing to contribute for nothing or next to nothing. The result is that you continue to get releases, but you are unlikely to get the top drawer professional developments that saw CC2 for example (sponsored by Microsoft), or any of the top level productions. Not to say that some of their titles are not quality, because they are, but you will get a very mixed bag of poor, ordinary, good, and some excellent.

Anyway, what was this thread about?... ah yes, modding re-releases Wink

. Of course Mod re-releases, and upgrade Mods to work with them. The old games are getting more and more of a pain to run on new systems, and are getting more difficult to get hold of. At the end of the day. Mod whatever you want to Mod. It's up to you. However, I would have thought that if you want to give the best opportunity to new people joining the Community, you would want to make Mods for the newer releases?

#81: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:17 am
—

vonB wrote (View Post):

At the end of the day. Mod whatever you want to Mod. It's up to you. However, I would have thought that if you want to give the best opportunity to new people joining the Community, you would want to make Mods for the newer releases?

I agree. Even converting some of the existing CC5 mods for TLD could potentially be really interesting. I'm thinking the Battle of Berlin mod...Seelow Heights...at night...then the spotlights pop on on each side. Is that possible with the TLD engine? I know night battles are but does it allow for light sources like that? Even if it doesn't, being able fight that engagement at night would certainly be interesting.

How difficult is the conversion process from CC5 to WAR or TLD?

#82: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:17 am
—

CSO_Linebacker wrote (View Post):

Stwa wrote (View Post):

I take it you're not a career man yet. It's not quite as simple when you can't cut and paste copyrighted pictures into the gui and gadgets.

Since you brought it up, I will expalain. I have been in software development all my adult life and various management positions along the way.

If there is one thing I have learned, you can give the same task to several people and they will deliver on wildy different time frames. Some guys want 60 days to complete a routine task, while others just want 6 days.

I hired a lawyer once who wanted 400 bucks per hour, but could complete the work without any redo's ten times faster than the 200 bucks per hour lawyers. Same way with software contractors, artists, or otherwise.

So, which category do you fall into. Like I said before, I wasn't there, so I wont comment.

#83: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:38 pm
—
$3 million just to get a new computer game?
You got to be kidding me.... right?

No granted I have no idea what anyone in the game industry makes but THAT just sounds incredibly stupid to me.

So how much did it cost to make God of War 3?
Billions?

#84: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:57 pm
—

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

$3 million just to get a new computer game?
You got to be kidding me.... right?

No granted I have no idea what anyone in the game industry makes but THAT just sounds incredibly stupid to me.

So how much did it cost to make God of War 3?
Billions?

He's not kidding. $3 million may have been a lot when CC first came out in the late 1990s. (Most expensive game of that period was Wing Commander 4 in 1996 with a budget of $10 million, but soon after game budgets skyrocketed...)

Most games today cost tens of millions of dollars to produce.

God of War 3 cost $44 million dollars to produce.

Halo 3 cost $30 million

So no it's not stupid or jesting. He was dead serious.

#85: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:32 pm
—
I wasn't implying he was stupid,just the amount.
What you just posted is just plain sickening
You can more than bet we will never see a new CC if money is being raised by the re-releases.

#86: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:03 pm
—
I hear you. I was just trying to be clear that games are not cheap to produce. However, that's not to say that a small group of dedicated individuals cannot produce a great game without millions of dollars. It happened all the time in the 1990s.

The re-releases would need better advertisement. Hell, I've been going to matrix games for several years and had never noticed the re-releases until a few months ago! I'm sure there is a good-sized audience out there for the games. They just need to know they exist.

I'm going to the Society of Military History conference next week and I'll ask some people there what they think about CC. Maybe I'll create a few new fans in the process...and probably come home broke. The book tables there are the devil! You just can't say no..... Laughing

Last edited by Dundradal on Sun May 16, 2010 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

#87: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:05 pm
—
How much did it cost to make Achtüng Panzer: Kharkov? how much has it make? I hear that they are a very small group of programmers and I've been reading only very positive comments about the game and expansions are already at the turn of the corner, I think in Russia it was already out together with the expansions they are just converting them to english or something.

The game is CHEAP as hell for what it delivers(Operational and tactical playability, great AI, BIG maps, company level battles, 3D fully destructible environment where damages stays on for the whole OP etc), 2 weeks ago was at 10$ on gamersgate, I couldn't buy it from there because of some error on the site and I had to get it from other place at, guess what, a staggering 17$!

Still haven't played it though because my machine can't run it at the moment lol, but whatever.

#88: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:44 pm
—
I'd love to help convert old mods to the re-releases. I like to think I can do most things (although anything involving math I try to stay away from) so I'd be willing to man-hours if I was told what to do to help those with more skills complete the task.

#89: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:21 pm
—

CSO_Linebacker wrote (View Post):

Therion, you were never this angry as a tester fro CCMT

I had less experience with other RTW games back then and I didn't know that Matrix Games is going to lie to sell it and won't fix the game for 2 years.
Not to mention that I didn't know about stuff like horrible weapons data.

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

They are next-gen bullshit cinematic games, though. What we need is a game with graphics of CC, sound of CC, mechanics better than in CC and AI better than in CC.

The first two are are provided for free by modders, the latter two are often found in one-man-show games.
For example:

Sean O'Connor's Firefight has better AI and SAI than CC, for example - it even uses bounding overwatch inside of squads. It also has better mechanics in some areas.
It has more generic weapons, less graphical gadgets like weapon images and less moddability, though - still these are not things that are influenced by the game being made by a single person.

Freeware Armored Brigade has better mechanics and better visualisations - no tracers/muzzle flashes until source of fire is spotted by units, more realistic artillery/air support, heigh map, los tool, more order types than CC, etc. etc. etc.

Let's face it. The real reason why new and improved CC isn't produced aren't financial reasons, because all the objectives for new and improved CC can be fulfilled on low budget.
The real reason is that the lack of talent.
Such project can succeed at a very low budget if it would be led by a programist-designer, not by a group of modders.

Personally, I think it would be better to bug the Firefight guy about implementing more features from CC and more moddability.

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

The re-releases would need better advertisement. Hell, I've been going to matrix games for several years and had never noticed the re-releases until a few months ago! I'm sure there is a good-sized audience out there for the games. They just need to know they exist.

Just remember to tell them about the faulty AI and faulty pathfinding.

#90: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:03 am
—
Dundradal,

See this thread for my notes on working to move the Meuse mod to TLD:

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=50428#50428

#91: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:20 pm
—

CSO_Linebacker wrote (View Post):

Therion wrote (View Post):

Linebacker is right.

In order to make new versions of CC, there was a contactual obligation to releases and while all the work would be done by Simtek/S3T they got only a fraction of money that would be raised. The other players got the big chunks.. that pie incidentally wasnt a big one for so many to share.

Also note once contractual obligation was done, there was (maybe its changed now) NO guarantee Simtek/S3T would even get to work on anything new, althought it wouldnt make sence they didnt at least have a say. They were operating (Again, maybe has changed) on the hope theyd earn the rights to develop new stuff.

#92: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:34 pm
—

Therion wrote (View Post):

Let's face it. The real reason why new and improved CC isn't produced aren't financial reasons, because all the objectives for new and improved CC can be fulfilled on low budget.
The real reason is that the lack of talent.
Such project can succeed at a very low budget if it would be led by a programist-designer, not by a group of modders.

Okay.. lets wait here.

Beebs (VonB) is right about the amount of money it takes to develop games, and what people most seem to want IS A NEW CC. This means changing the core engine and needs a real programmer. The numbers Beebs gave are rgith, youd need at LEAST one programmer if not more. As co founder of Simtek, he was first hand involved with how games industry works that most of us dotn know on anyhting but say a tertiary level at best.

Modders cant make new CC engine, thats a fact. And modders in CC have IMHO made the best of the engines they have had to get the most out of the game. We cant rag on them.

The only way your idea of a Programist-designer developing a new CC engine would be if he largely did it for the love of the game not to make or even recoup the money the time needed would dictate as far as financial compensation. that means a team of guys doing it for nothing, or next to nothing.

As far as spending 1000 hours on making a mod.. no question I accept this number without question...not all mods maybe, but soem for sure. I mean many maps alone can take 25 hours if not many more.

As far as knocking game slike Halo and Gears of War, more pople play those than ever played CC at any point in time, so supply and demand dictates where the money is spend in the goal of making more. If you had a poll of CC vs Halo 3, what do you like better? CC would probably take in single diget numbers of support.. I love CC.. but you cant deny is 'market appeal' in 2010.

Matrix takes niche games, not as high profile and does what they can on a limited budget (Not a knock, just a fact) this includes buying old titles and keeping them alive in what probably is the only way they will be since a mega million producer would kind of be committing financial suicide if they spend a few million trying to make a new CC that would even pay for its own development.

#93: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:29 pm
—

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

The only way your idea of a Programist-designer developing a new CC engine would be if he largely did it for the love of the game not to make or even recoup the money the time needed would dictate as far as financial compensation. that means a team of guys doing it for nothing, or next to nothing.

Probably anyone who works on tactical wargames does it for the love of the game anyway, as it means resigning from much more lucrative jobs.
As for the financial compensation - according to his CV, the guy that made Firefight lives from making/selling games and does it for the most of his life. He did develop several other games, though and good AI seems to be one of the main features of all of them.

Since there are modders who are willing to put thousands of hours into modding, it's not an unrealistic expectation anyway - hell, there are even open source games after all. If you have tons of creative people willing to put thousands hours of their work into games, you'll surely going to see lots of new indie developers, right?
Wrong!

What went wrong is that people with passion for video games are becoming modders and are very busy modding other people's games instead of going to an university or even buying a few good books and making their own games.
Basically - learning how to mod provides much faster gratification than learning how to code and writing ones own game.

And nowadays even modders are declining a lot. For example, Airborne Assault fans are begging developers to give them editing tools for modifying ToEs and vehicles and weapons.
10 years ago modders would simply open a hex editor and would start analysing the data file themselves. Which is exactly what I have started to do.

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

As far as knocking game slike Halo and Gears of War, more pople play those than ever played CC at any point in time, so supply and demand dictates where the money is spend in the goal of making more. If you had a poll of CC vs Halo 3, what do you like better? CC would probably take in single diget numbers of support.. I love CC.. but you cant deny is 'market appeal' in 2010.

Which is why these games and reality of their production are irrelevant. The truth is that new wargames are being made and they often come out in a much more finished state than any CC game, despite being sold for the same or lower price.

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

Matrix takes niche games, not as high profile and does what they can on a limited budget (Not a knock, just a fact) this includes buying old titles and keeping them alive in what probably is the only way they will be since a mega million producer would kind of be committing financial suicide if they spend a few million trying to make a new CC that would even pay for its own development.

The problem with Matrix Games is that the game it sells vary in quality from genius to utter crap and often a bugged, faulty game whose major faults will never be fixed is sold for the same price and is as much hyped as a genial game.

#94: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:15 pm
—

Therion wrote (View Post):

And nowadays even modders are declining a lot. For example, Airborne Assault fans are begging developers to give them editing tools for modifying ToEs and vehicles and weapons.
10 years ago modders would simply open a hex editor and would start analysing the data file themselves. Which is exactly what I have started to do.

There is a difference in the average computer user of 2000 and 2010. Today's modders are much like Therion describes, they want the tools, but not the knowledge of how to make the tools.

I worked on one of the few WC mods to come to completion. It took us 10 years (roughly 5-9 team members at any time) from start to finish to complete the project! We had no modding tools, no developer assistance, etc. However, we did have a group of individuals who worked in the game field as well as several who are programming wizards (which is what really allowed us to even go forward at all).

In the past, when programming skills were needed...people learned to program....today it's not the case.

#95: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:20 pm
—
First of all.. importqant to say you have some very valid points...

Therion wrote (View Post):

I remember when Sulla asked me to add soem textures ect and fart around with Firefight.... was an interesting little game.. but kinda Mickey Mouse. If the guy isw trying to make a lviing out of it.. thats fine, but its kind of like the starving artist.. they create soemthign they love, and odnt care if they sleep under a bridge. (Which is tough if you mod games and have t0o drag your pc from bridge to bridge.

As far as modding, and I am only speakign for myself.. I mod things becuase I like the state of a game and want to enhance it. Also if were talking technical aspects, if I am modding I add teams, sounds and grapics, thats dynamically different than crunching codes. I enjoy tweaking paramaters in games, I dotn enjoy spending hours and hours setting those parameters.

Think of why so many mods died over the years, people liked doing data, didnt like doing maps (mostly the time to learn to do them)

Another analogy, the guy whos designed the engine for a Jaguar, likely didnt design the interior decor... yet you need both.

I cant stress as well if you do spend 1000 hours making a new engine, youd either be rich or more likely a fool to release it for free instead of cashing in. You cant feed your kids on accolades in a forum becuase you gave a game engine away!

Therion wrote (View Post):

You are pretty well bang on. The reality is CC is, as much as I love it.. or loved it.. an old game. Designed when gaming was far different due to limitations on computers/technology. Yes it could be improved upon... but supply/demand. People still play turn based war table top games, but the demand isnt near what it used to be. (Off the top of my head)

Therion wrote (View Post):

Matrix again I said fills what I think is a niche corner of gamign market. Like many companies thier overall quality varies game to game.. one will be no matter what, 'the worst' they offer.. thats just a fact. the fact is they are not a monitary giant, and do serve thisi niche market. And for what its worth, if you enjoy any of the rereleases, then thank them for helping back that. If you dont like them, dont be angry at Matrix, they made a business decision on these rerleases. They havent killed any new versions of CC from ever coming out, yet I dont know or think they have the ability to back such if they the green light to do so.

I have brought it up before, but it never did get answered, if we knew how many copies of each rerlelease sold, then youd probably understand why a new version isnt out there or being thrown around as a hot item. Hype it veyr improtant part of gamign industry.

#96: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: CSO_Sbufkle, Location: Canada

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:23 pm
—

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

Therion wrote (View Post):

Dude! We have to play Halo 3 online... there is 'only' about 80,000 people on a weeknight playing due to Reach beta... if 8000 people were playign CC on one night... well its never happened!

#97: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:34 pm
—

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

I remember when Sulla asked me to add soem textures ect and fart around with Firefight.... was an interesting little game.. but kinda Mickey Mouse.

Well, I have discovered it many years after Close Combat and I prefer it because he has done many things right from the start.
For example he made sure that the AI and SAI uses area fire and artillery against sources of fire unlike the CC AI and SAI that targets only the units that it sees directly.
It doesn't matter if the programmers are greatly paid by Microsoft if they don't bother to integrate the mechanics of gameplay with the AI - and for example make the muzzle flashes and tracers visible for the player but invisible for the AI.

I like it despite poor moddability and some gamey stuff like poor accuracy of tank/AT guns, generic small arms and lack of important details like trenches, minefields, etc. because it actually works as a game and has some other interesting mechanics and the AI is good enough to keep me interested in playing. Usually I win, but at least I feel that I had to earn the victory.

Another thing that I like is the campaign that doesn't jump between command levels and the player is basically just a guy that got caught in the war and tries to survive until the end. Not some super general/god/whatever, but a person that is present on the battlefield and can actually get killed.

I started another campaign yesterday, this time with a Marine. I have fought 5 battles. I won 3 of them and lost 2 of them. I actually had to withdraw to stay alive after I lost all my AT guns and most of my soldiers.
The missions aren't balanced and difficulty seems to be random, so it's possible to fight with two platoons against one platoon in one mission and with a platoon against a company in another.

I like that I can actually play it and enjoy it straight "out of the box". He keeps upgrading it, both graphics and mechanics. There was another upgrade a few weeks ago.
I wouldn't call the game "small". It has over 10 nationalities.

Also, he's a true gentleman.

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

If the guy isw trying to make a lviing out of it.. thats fine, but its kind of like the starving artist.. they create soemthign they love, and odnt care if they sleep under a bridge. (Which is tough if you mod games and have t0o drag your pc from bridge to bridge.

Well, he doesn't exactly look like a starving artist. I checked out the forums and he seems to have a regular job. Which is kinda weird, I thought that people would be more likely to mention their regular jobs in a CV XD .
Still it's probably much more creative and profitable way of using love for games than spending time on modifying other people's games.

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

As far as modding, and I am only speakign for myself.. I mod things becuase I like the state of a game and want to enhance it. Also if were talking technical aspects, if I am modding I add teams, sounds and grapics, thats dynamically different than crunching codes. I enjoy tweaking paramaters in games, I dotn enjoy spending hours and hours setting those parameters.

I mod mainly because I don't like the state of a game and want to make it more playable for myself.
I have never created my own game mainly because I never had motivation to learn how to code and I usually have too much distracting things to do to sit down and do serious stuff. Hey, I have trouble even with focusing on school stuff.

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

The main problem wasn't the age and the computer technology - the main technological limitation was on graphics, map sizes, etc. The main problem is that the developers have fucked stuff (namely the AI and pathfinding) up really badly from the start. Senior Drill said that it's literally impossible to make really good vehicle pathing in CC due to how CC engine works.

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

People still play turn based war table top games, but the demand isnt near what it used to be. (Off the top of my head)

On the other hand, there are three major publishers and several smaller ones that sell hardcore computer wargames. Neither supply nor demand is really low.
There are games like Airborne Assault getting developed and sell enough to warrant several sequels.
People who started their careers in 80s are still developing games and their games are getting better and better.

Computer wargaming market is in completely different condition than for example hardcore cRPG market, which went to hell in 2000s because no one outside the mainstream has means to make games of such quality as Fallout 1 while the mainstream prefers shooter hybrids.

CSO_Sbufkle wrote (View Post):

Hype it veyr improtant part of gamign industry.

Having a product that lives up to the hype is even more important. Especially when one is a niche publisher.
Also, I gets kinda perverse when a company uses unfair competition against itself.

#98: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:35 pm
—
A couple new sections in CCS could help promote mod and map making. Put up Bios and information about each of the Mod and Map makers in the community and list their work. Like the political officer said in Enemy at the Gates to Kruschev "What we need are heroes."

#99: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: Therion,

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:41 pm
—
I started informatics studies this year. I think that waiting for a miracle is pretty pointless. Guys, if you really want to do something for Close Combat, stop modding and get some education and prepare for a lot of hard work.

#100: Re: Players Debate - Modding Re-releases Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:44 pm
—
FAIL!

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

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