Sharing tips for creating new vehicles.
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Close Combat Series -> Modding Workshop
#1: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:11 pm
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Well title says it all, got any tips to share about modding the graphics of the vehicles? Talking about CC4 onwards here.

What I would most like to know is:

-in what image type should I start drawing (TGA, JPG, BMP)? does it matter or not?
-How can I copy a vehicle from a drawing?
-At what size should I draw? I've noticed that if you start big then shrink it, a lot of details are lost, If I start small I can't see very well. So is there a sweet Image size from where to start?
-Should I draw shadows or left the vehicle color plain?
-Any other tips you would like to share.

Using gimphoto here.
#2: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:14 pm
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Good idea for a thread.
I hope CSO_linebacker will share his advice as he did do some really nice Vehicles for a once attempted "Race to Bastogne" mod for CCV.
I only have created one tank and I haven't touched it in weeks.Not sure I really like it yet.It's supposed to be an M36 Pershing Heavy Tank.
Have you played TT's Mod?Or Firefox's version of it for WAR?
You can see his Vehicles there.

from the WAR Workbook:
CC Standard Scale:
Soldiers are 1 m = 10 pixels
Tanks are 1 m = 7 pixels
Maps are 1 m = 5 pixels


The Hull of the Panther from TT's Mod is 30 pixels Wide and 60 pixels Long

I started with a Jpeg image but moved it to a TGA,and always do all my work with in a .TGA format.
(I don't know if that's right or wrong)
I scaled the image down from the web site posted in another thread.
Then I used Layers to draw in the areas that get blurred out.
Changing the Opacity so as to not be so Bright/Dark.

Be nice if someone could post us a nice blueprint to follow,by that I mean one completed but still in Layers

Last edited by platoon_michael on Sun May 16, 2010 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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#3: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:41 pm
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The scale does have some variation to it.

Soldiers - Depending the pose can be anywhere from 10 to 12 (probably closer to 11 on average)
Tanks - Are 7 or 8 with the size increasing over time as people wanted more detailed tanks. Some mods went as high as 10 (Stalingrad) though some said that was too big compared to the men and buildings
Maps - need to stay at 5 pixels per meter as it is hard coded into the game engine. Though if desired  things could be drawn a bit larger
#4: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:45 pm
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That's a very nice tank Michael, The one I did looked like a cartoon lol.

- How you got rid of the shadows form the original image?
- How did you separated the turret?

Also I didn't get how the hot point for the turrets and hulls works, I changed mine for the sherman I did following Atilla's advice, but the turret was all misaligned and the hull rotated very weird.
#5: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:19 am
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Doing my second attempt now, it is going well, things I've learned:

-Much more easier for artistically challenged people like me to use drawings already painted instead of doing the painting by hand.
-The clone tool (GIMP, but I'm sure most photoeditors have one similar) works great for eliminating the shadows of AA guns on the turret and of cannons on the hull for example, and for painting over empty areas.

To remove the turret or leave the hull:
-Make a copy of your original drawing.
-Paste it in another layer above the original
-Paint all the things you don't want with the brush in the new layer, use black.
-use magic wand to select all black
-Invert selection
-Paste in another picture

Now you have only the thing you wanted, repeat for the other part of the tank and make sure to 'clean' the edges.
#6: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:27 am
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Rather than black better use some other strong color like red, because when selecting black some other shadowed parts of the tank might get selected too.
#7: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:12 am
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Finished my second try at vehicles, MUCH better now, though still some adjustments need to be made.

New things learned:
-Gray doesn't really stands out, I painted the AA gun gray to contrast more, but it resulted in the opposite.
-Don't go overboard with black under the turret, make only a small circle do not try to cover all the space that the turret occupies.
-Still can't get hot points right
-Light effects and shadows don't look to well in miniature form.
-You have to really look for white spaces on the borders as they stand out a lot in game.

Attached is the source and the end result.

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source
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2nd tank
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#8: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:25 am
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Testing
#9: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:03 pm
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Im having problems posting.

The white dots your seeing is because that area is NOT a True white (255,255,255)
A True white of 255,255,255 will not show up in the game for Vehicles.

After selecting the Shadow area (for larger shadow areas)
Use the Image/Adjustments/Curves to remove larger shadow area from pictures.
Just grab the line in the graph in the middle and move it forward.
I have also used this method for changing the color of Vehicles,You don't select anything but rather just have that Layer selected.

I do not understand how the Hotpoint is determined for the Muzzle flash of the MG.

Something I also seem to be interested in is trying to bring out more detail in the edges for that I
Duplicate the layer
Choose the New layer and desaturate that Layer
Go to Filter/other/High Pass and use a setting of around 10.0
Change that Layer to Overlay and reduce the Opacity to around 40
The Image of the JagdPanther is Left=before Right= after.
I seem to enjoy a little bit of a darker vehicle for some reason.(Got that through the Curves adjustment)I just had to go over the white area with the eraser tool as the curve adjustment changes that too thus it;s no longer a true white and my tank had a box around it in game.

Not to mention they hide very well within the brown trees of WAR when darker.

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#10: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:26 pm
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just my try to edith some texture
Some one know of a good tutorial? for edith vehicles?

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#11: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:27 pm
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Thanks for the shadow tip Michael! much better than painting over it lol. Just need to see if gimp has that option.

About the white, yeah I figured it was because the dots weren't true white because otherwise the whole box would appear as you mention.

Did you managed to make that king tiger work? any in-game shots?
Do you have other method for removing the turret?

Also I don't know what you meant by this:

Quote:
trying to bring out more detail in the edges


I mean, I think you mean the edges of the vehicle, but I don't know why the edges?? what is wrong with the normal ones?
#12: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:34 pm
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-Jager- wrote (View Post):
just my try to edith some texture
Some one know of a good tutorial? for edith vehicles?


Those look awesome! the panther looks tilted, is it?? did you edited all 17 images? any videos or moving gifs? if they are not, you do realize you could have moving threads effects right? just change the threads a little in each image.

I figured this thread was about making some sort of guide or whatever because I hadn't found one either, but looks like you are very good anyway, maybe you could share some tips?
#13: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:54 pm
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jager,
They look pretty good.
The Tiger looks like you can see tread on one side but not the other (front that is)
I suggest correcting that.
I cant pinpoint what I dont like about it.
It's either too zoomed in or too bold of strokes for the camo.
Out of focus,something

The Panther looks much better except for the red on the back.
But you've done waayyyy better than I have to date.
I too would like to know jager is doing and compare it to me.

As for more detail on the edges,im just trying to figure out a way to provide more detail.I don't know if it helps or not.

I think im the ADHD king when it comes to modding CC as I get bored or frustrated with one thing and move on to another.
I'll see if I can get that Pershing in the game,and somehow make it look better.


great thread kanov
#14: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm
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Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
-Jager- wrote (View Post):
just my try to edith some texture
Some one know of a good tutorial? for edith vehicles?


Those look awesome! the panther looks tilted, is it?? did you edited all 17 images? any videos or moving gifs? if they are not, you do realize you could have moving threads effects right? just change the threads a little in each image.

I figured this thread was about making some sort of guide or whatever because I hadn't found one either, but looks like you are very good anyway, maybe you could share some tips?


No the Panther is not tilted! It's a Bannana Panther!
How do you get the 17 images?
I just use the XTank tool and get 2 image turret and hull..

The Tiger looks like you can see tread on one side but not the other (front that is)
Yea that was a battle damage! But it's dont look good when you got same tanks
#15: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:36 pm
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-Jager- wrote (View Post):


No the Panther is not tilted! It's a Bannana Panther!

hahaha what?? new german secret weapon?

-Jager- wrote (View Post):

How do you get the 17 images?
I just use the XTank tool and get 2 image turret and hull..


Use RtB tool, it extracts and repacks every image but editing each one is very time consuming.
#16: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:00 am
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that might be over the top.
to edit all 17 image.
I remade the tiger But the cammo dont show up.
I might try to giv it a new cote of cammo
I think they got that cammoflage in  battle of bulge. dark yellow,dark brown,black

Some one know of a good resorse site?
Of the german panzer

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#17: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:52 pm
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I'm using these sites:

http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-Vehicles/Vehicles.htm

http://www.onwar.com/tanks/index.htm
#18: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: papa_whisky,  PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:26 am
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For just line drawings one of the most complete sites is

http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/
#19: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CSO_Talorgan,  PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:52 pm
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For line drawings of unusual and exotic vehicles there is the Bradford - Stackpole series of books.
#20: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CSO_Linebacker,  PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:20 am
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Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
-Jager- wrote (View Post):
just my try to edith some texture
Some one know of a good tutorial? for edith vehicles?


Those look awesome! the panther looks tilted, is it?? did you edited all 17 images? any videos or moving gifs? if they are not, you do realize you could have moving threads effects right? just change the threads a little in each image.

I figured this thread was about making some sort of guide or whatever because I hadn't found one either, but looks like you are very good anyway, maybe you could share some tips?


Have you tried this recently? I tried this 3 or 4 years ago when drawing the vehicles for Jim's Afrika '40-'41 mod of the original CC5. Despite using RTB tool and making 17 different images to create the moving track effect, it did not work in the game.  The tread remained stationary throughout and did not actually animate as hoped...and expected.

Just curious as to whether or not you had tried this on the update exe of with WAR or TLD, and actually got it to show up in game.
#21: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:47 pm
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I tested this just now!
As the 17 image change!
Becouse the map Elevation. It dont change image quick enuff fore a animation!
If we could change the time the picture's swicth?
Perhaps then it would be usefull?
#22: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:56 pm
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Tread animation will not work/change when the vehicle is moving on a flat surface, but should show up when the vehicle is tilting, climbing or going downhill.
#23: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:34 pm
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Has anybody tried it with 3D models??

first this:

http://www.dedoimedo.com/art_3d/tank.html

Then I found out about this:

http://sketchup.google.com/

Installed it, clicked on Get Models, typed "Tank", received this:

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#24: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:54 pm
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If you could zoom out enough and then adjust the image properly the 17 shots for CC could be created. It would be interesting to see if the 3D rotated and size images are worse in quality....

If the 17 images could be made easy enough I think they should be included....

If the CC tank/vehicle scale was doubled (16 to 20 pixels per meter) how much better would the tanks look?
#25: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:07 pm
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You can zoom out very far and rotate the model to any CC vehicle perspective, can't tell you how to take the images out of this program because it runs very slow here (no good video card), when I get home I will study it more and see if there's a way of exporting images other than PrntScrn, separating the turret and Hull is going to be a challenge too as it seems the models are all like one single entity and not separated items. Also found a bunch of models on google's 3D warehouse, you can see them here but they are limited to side rotation view only:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/

Try looking for panthers.

Download it, it is a very light tool the free version.
#26: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CSO_Linebacker,  PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:38 am
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I mentioned this in another thread a couple of days ago. I set up LW to render the 17 keyframes for the animation, but the amount of detail left after rendering at approx 8ppm is ridiculously low...just look at atomics originals vs anything modders have done over the years.
#27: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:40 am
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What is LW?

I made the 17 tilted graphics for a panther using the 3D editor from Google (Sketchup) by rotating, zooming and separating a model available for download at: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=96325d137aee4bd390b389ac3fe203fe&prevstart=0. Turns out you can separate parts of the models and export the 3D objects to 2D images, I chose to export to PNG as it retains a lot of detail. TGA was not available

The tank itself turned out OK but still got some white borders that are visible on some angles, I didn't darkened the hull under the turret so the turret kind of goes unnoticed and blends too much with the hull, the graphics do tilt but sometimes they are very drastic probably because I didn't get the angle right I was just guessing using an original hetzer tank from CC5 as it was the vehicle that I felt where the tilt was more noticeable.

The detail of the Vehicle was OK, probably a little too dark. For the Hot points I used an original CC5 panther tank hot points file, the turret and Hull didn't seem to have any trouble, they were practically the same size.

Picture is 3 custom tanks using this technique and a GJS panther for comparison. The tanks made from the 3D model are the darkest ones. Other thing is that the cannon needs retouching as it looks very thin, I think it was only 1 pixel wide. Notice how the tank in the middle shows mild tilting as it is on top of a haystack, the one on the right is on another funky angle and the one on the left is in normal position.



I think I did pretty ok considering this is the most graphic editing I've done in my life. Still would like to know of a way to get rid of white borders, they were more noticeable at first but then I retouched the graphics by hand one by one, still didn't managed to get rid of them, it is bugging the hell out of me.

Attached are some graphics files plus the tex files I used, ready to be imported into your own tanks.azp for testing.

As a final comment, I would like to say that this looks promising, I bet it would be far easier for someone used to graphic editing to make vehicles with tilted graphics this way, painting the model is simpler, the only problem is that you need a model and doing a model just for tilting it a little is just not worth it or maybe doing a shell of a tank that is not that detailed could be easy for those with the skill. Good thing that a lot of tanks are already available, mostly the german ones. I'm not sure I would like to try it again anytime soon lol.

Panther A_graphics.rar
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Graphics I used if you would like to do more editing.

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tex files of the hull and turret

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#28: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:09 am
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Better Resolution Screens.





Funny effect, the panther looks like a midget, it is supposed to be on a slope with its hull down.
#29: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: papa_whisky,  PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:23 pm
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The white is probably a result of something slightly off white. Its hard to find sometimes when you are editing. If you use a colour selection tool with zero tolerance you should be able to spot those pixels that are just off white.
#30: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:43 pm
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Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
Has anybody tried it with 3D models??

Yes I tried sometimes. It is possible. Even I made maps with Blitzkrieg 2 map editor.........

Perhaps some people find it ilegal but with most of the map editors from WWII 3D games, you can take images from vehicles and you can use them for your CC vehicles. I do not find it too ilegal because on the end, they are screenshots.
#31: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: DAK_Legion,  PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:22 pm
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hi Kanov!

I send a PM
#32: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:45 pm
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I made some painting on the Tld Vehicles and the Wrecks.
But i got som problem the Tetrarch Tank turret rottating wrong and the second is
Error unable to read panzerjäger 35r

Anny how hoppe some one will have this usefull

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#33: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 6:36 pm
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They look awesome jager! here hoping you would do a tutorial Razz
#34: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:45 pm
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i am not so Experienced whit edith the grapic in CC.
I have only changed the tld grafic a bit.
But what softweard do you use?
#35: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: southern_land,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:39 am
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I've having a bit of a play around with using net images and resizing the with reasonable results.   They all need redoing, then touching up but as a first try not too bad.  Pity the fool in the sdkfz251/?  my method (for want of a better term) was to save the large image as an .eps, shrink in 20-30 increments using image size then compose as a .psd

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#36: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:53 pm
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Nice tanks, possible teaser for an upcoming mod perhaps???

Where did you get those models? also, what's an .eps? I'm using GIMP I think I will move to photoshop 7 as I tried it and thought it was more user friendly.

Does any one else think that vehicle sub-mods would be awesome? like there's different sound mods for regular and modded CC's I just think it would be great if the same happened with the vehicles. It's just that they are hard to do.
#37: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:16 pm
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Gimp seams so confusing ?
Get Photoshop cs5 ore fireworks cs5
You might wanna try paint.net but it seams buggy
#38: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: southern_land,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:06 am
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Still just playing with a few ideas at the moment... .eps are a non lossy graphic format (I think)

Just did a google search for tank graphics plan view or schematics or something.  I normally run a few search combinations till i find something useful
#39: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CSO_Talorgan,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:49 am
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That's a superb looking map.
#40: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: papa_whisky,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:12 pm
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Great looking tanks, SL, why shrink in increments and why eps?
#41: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:40 pm
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i painted the tanks in Wacht am Rhein/ patch 4.50.07b
Now do they look realistic?

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#42: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: southern_land,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:28 am
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papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
Great looking tanks, SL, why shrink in increments and why eps?


Apparently when you enlarge images you should set up an automation to do it in increments (photoshop 7 anyway) so I thought maybe the same when shrinking.  probably should have tested to see if it was so.

Eps was an attempt to use something I could scale without loosing too much info.   Realistically probably could have used jpeg format for all the good it seemed to do.

I figure you've got to try these things to see what you get. Very Happy
#43: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: papa_whisky,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:24 pm
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Thanks SL for so clearly demonstrating using existing net images, can be used so effectively to produce vehicles. You have inspired me to get off my a*se and do some more stuff, well at least when I can find some time  Shocked
#44: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:18 pm
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Does anyone have any tips for making images from scratch?
#45: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: DAK_Legion,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:34 pm
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Hi All!

The free game WINSPMBT i extracted some vehicles......test here........

Merkava Mk.IV for CCMT

#46: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: -Jager-, Location: stockholm PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:56 pm
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Perhaps you can use the blueprints? http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/
look at Orginal Close combat Normal_hull to get a idea of the size.

I find the orginal vehicle in close combat a bit to small! I Usually increase them 4pixels higher over that they will be to big.
Normal_turrets i usuall increas 2pixels.
#47: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:03 pm
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I try to find something/anything to use as a template.
Be it from the web or other games I own.I'm just not that artistic to do it from scratch.
I do agree that a larger Vehicle along the lines of what TT did with VetBoB adds a lot more in terms of detail than what comes with CC.

Currently trying my luck with screen shots from Company of Hero's.
There is a means to edit the MAX zoom out on the game I just don't have the time to find what works best yet.
Could also be useful for creating isometric houses.

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#48: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Andreus,  PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:57 pm
    —
Maybe screenshots taken from Theater of War 2 and Achtung Panzer's editors could work?

They have many vehicles and you can zoom quite close and rotate at will, for max details and tilted graphics...

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#49: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:15 pm
    —
Abdreus:
Is that game worth buying?
Does it play any good?
If not you willing to take requests?
I could use a good image for an Mobelwagon,Wirbelwind,Wesp,Hummel and Nashorn.
I also could use any and all British Tanks and vehicles

Not many Vehicles to choose from but they do have a top down view.
http://www.hobbymastercollector.com/indexpageforallgroundvehicles.html

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#50: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Andreus,  PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:49 pm
    —
Honestly, the game is fun the first hour, then i just came to hate it. I believe the pathfinding is even worse than CC's, at least armoured units.
On the graphic side, it's really beautiful and you can see the impacts on the vehicles/destroy buildings or fences with the tanks.

I don't have it installed anymore and don't plan to, but you can always get the demo see if you can use it for the main vehicles, and try it yourself...
#51: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:53 pm
    —
Here's a better link.
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/dragon/default.asp

Click on the Image of the vehicle/Tank you want,Some but not all have top down images of the tanks/Vehicles.
You can also click the links in RED on the upper left hand side to get to more pages.

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#52: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:58 pm
    —
Hello!

I'm also a fan of the Close Combat games, especially CC3 and COI.  I also love to make top-down sprites of armored vehicles!  I'm 100% amateur and self-taught.

The CC community has been around for quite awhile, and I was hoping to find some more experienced artists to share some techniques on creating tank sprites pixel-by-pixel, rather than reducing a larger screenshot or drawing.  I cannot seem to create decent sprites simply by reducing image sizes.

I've made lots of sprites for the free game Armored Brigade, and the sprites in Armored Brigade are around the same scale as CC:  In AB they are slightly smaller at 6.4 pixels/meter and CC I think around 7 pixels/meter.  In the upcoming "Panthers in the Fog," it looks like around 10 pixels/meter.  This is very exciting because at 10 pixels/meter, sprite artists will have more pixels to make very good-looking sprites!  Hopefully the new game will be easily modded for Cold War or modern mods with larger/better sprites!

I'm far from a professional artists, but I do make my sprites from the ground up, pixel-by-pixel.

I have posted an example of 10 pixels/meter T-72 tanks and some that look like metal miniatures.  Anything less than 10 pixel/meter this doesn't look right.  Also,  I'm posting an example of some of my sprites at 6.4 meters/pixel: (at different zoom levels, so they are not all at the same scale.)


I think there is probably already a tank graphic available right now for about every single vehicle (modern or WW2) already created for CC and ready to be added to any mod, so there's really not much use in making a bunch of new sprites, but what about 10 pixels/meter??

I would love to share ideas and different approaches for creating sprites with some CC artists!

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#53: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:51 am
    —
I don't see anything Capt.
#54: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:52 am
    —
Strange--They were here earlier.  Here is a re-post:

Basically, I'm hitting a wall in my sprite development.  I figure CC has been around so long there must be a few top-down sprite experts to get some ideas from.

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6.4 pixel/meter sprites at various zoom levels
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T72 and T72 with ERA. 10 pixels/meter. The metallic effect is a bit overdone, but with some refinement, it should be quite nice at this scale.
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#55: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:01 am
    —
Also, I found this free sprite online and re-painted it.  I cannot find the original sprite artist, but I would love to ask him how he made the sprite look so metallic!

Anyone here have an idea how it was done?  I would love to make a set of sprites that look like metal miniatures!

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Pz IV
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#56: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:36 pm
    —
I don't know what resources the CC community uses for making images, but here's something I find useful:

http://www.juniorgeneral.org/load.php?Period=10#World

I get a pic of a Panther, use edge-detect and invert colors in GIMP, then I reduce size to 200% in-game for a guide.

Then I paint grayscale layers over the blueprint, make a bumpmap, then reduce to in-game size and add small details,and then I paint a camo overlay layer.

This is just how I'm currently doing images.  Just wanted to share and I wonder if someone has a better way?

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#57: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:05 pm
    —
This didn't turn out as well as I hoped, but took me about 45 mins...The roof area is too small and the gradients are too rough, but I'm needing some more practice at the larger scale images for when the new CC comes out . . .

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#58: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: southern_land,  PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:16 am
    —
you could always touch that up a shade manually
#59: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:09 am
    —
southern_land wrote (View Post):
you could always touch that up a shade manually


You're right, I can always touch it up.  But in this case I used the wrong grayscale values in my sloping gradients, so that when I made the bumpmap, it came out too rough.  I suppose I could pretend it is zimmerit paste, but I really didn't mean for it to look that way.  It should be smooth slopes.

This one will have to be re-done.  But I really love doing the camo.  Not sure if others here already know this, but here's a great set of colors for painting German vehicles.  

For me, I would love to waste money on 1/72 miniatures, but I'm too cheap for that.  In a sense, making little sprites and painting them is a lot of fun for me.  I actually get my pixel colors from websites that sell paint for models!  It is so much fun for me.  I was hoping to find a few metal miniature collectors that also make sprites!

Also, someone at this GIMP forums suggested I use the curves dialog to make the vehicles look more metallic.  I'm experimenting with some of that strange German camo patterns and I've increased the curves to look more metallic, but really, this sprite must be redone eventually.  Still, it is lots of fun to paint it!

When the new CC comes out, we will see if there are 32 bit vehicle sprites.  If so, then we can expect extremely high quality vehicles!

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#60: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:32 pm
    —
I would love to see/use the .TGA for this tank if possible.

Your idea seems to be something I could get into.

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#61: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:59 pm
    —
platoon_michael wrote (View Post):
I would love to see/use the .TGA for this tank if possible.

Your idea seems to be something I could get into.


That's Jadgpanther's not good enough to pass around yet!  I'm just thinking out loud on the board here and sharing my ideas and attempts to learn more (mainly by trial and error.)  At some point I'll have a decent gray scale sprite anyone can have and paint however they desire!

On the Slitherine main board, someone named Steve McClaire verified that the new vehicle images are true 32 bit with an alpha layer!  Wow, imagine millions of colors possible with true transparencies (not the 255 white pixel/transparent) and larger scale (better looking) sprites.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=176&t=36535&sid=16677d2c109bf1c1540d914806602ee1
 
Look, I'm nowhere near pro level at this, but I'm having lots of fun trying to figure this stuff out.  I have finally gotten to a point where painting a sprite is probably my favorite part.  I even watch Youtube videos of people painting miniatures.  Making and painting little images of tanks, for me, is probably just as much fun as making little models is for someone that does that.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05TeLAOxvg
(it gets really interesting around 06:50)

The major difference between model makers and sprite makers: I can correct mistakes and make as many versions as I want, and sprite makers can actually play real-time games with their images!  I'm posting a few more paint schemes, just for the fun of it--I could make these all day long . . . It may take an hour to make a grayscale bumpmap, but I can paint a sprite in just a few minutes!  Also here's a pic of my grayscale bumpmap.

I use GIMP, by the way, because it has an excellent bumpmap filter for making a 3D-looking grayscale base sprite.  As long as I make a good gray scale bumpmap, I can easily paint a good-looking tank.  I can quickly make desert or winter or whatever version I want.  To get good colors, I take screenshots of webpages and use the eyedropper to pick my colors in my graphics editor.

http://www.jpsmodell.de/katalog/jpsral_e.htm

If you do a web search for "top-down tank sprites" or tutorials about how to make them, you won't find much of anything.  Are you interested in me making a guide on how I make mine?  I'm no pro, but the basic concepts could possibly be improved upon.  Perhaps others could offer constructive criticism.

By the way, who made the Stalingrad mod vehicles?  That guy needs to make a sprite guide!

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#62: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:08 am
    —
That's Jadgpanther's not good enough to pass around yet!


Ahhh yea ,your wrong about that.
And I was wrong in my post .
I should have asked for a layered format.One that allows people to see the steps that you did.
It's nice when people help out but for me personally I like a layered format and instruction on each layer.


BTW
Thank-You for the link and what suggestions you have already posted.
#63: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: papa_whisky,  PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:26 am
    —
CaptSam, you make it seem very easy (and it probably is for you). I am not very savvy with paint programs, I had an ambition to do all British and Soviet/Russian AFV's from 1945 to present. Got about halfway through the Bristish vehicles, some results better than others. I was a bit data deficient on some vehicles not able to find a suitable top down or blueprint. It is very satisfying seeing the creations moving around the battlefield.
#64: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:02 am
    —
papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
CaptSam, you make it seem very easy (and it probably is for you). I am not very savvy with paint programs, I had an ambition to do all British and Soviet/Russian AFV's from 1945 to present. Got about halfway through the Bristish vehicles, some results better than others. I was a bit data deficient on some vehicles not able to find a suitable top down or blueprint. It is very satisfying seeing the creations moving around the battlefield.



Look at the pic below, the first sprites I ever made:  I made it in 2011.  It is extremely amateurish.  

Think about that . . . 2011.  Most people would have instantly quit with such results . . . All around me are sprite makers of superior ability and talent.  Shouldn't I just give up?  Hell no; I loved making those sprites!  I'm proud of them and I want to post it here!

"It is very satisfying seeing the creations moving around the battlefield."--that about sums it up!

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#65: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:28 pm
    —
Ok, what I have done is make a GIMP, Paint.net, and Photoshop version of my last tank.  Since both Pain.net and GIMP are free, anybody can open and view it.  If you want to make a .tga file, you can convert it in any of those editors--although you might need a plug-in.

I left all the layers intact, in case someone wants to see how I did it.  The only problem is there are many layers (over 30!) and no notes on what I really did for each layer.  14 of the layers are different camo patterns, so maybe someone can turn on each different camo layer, one at a time, and see what colors I used or whatever.

If someone wants to put this image in a current CC game, it probably isn't a good idea, since this image uses semi-transparent pixels and we won't be able to display it correctly until Panthers in the Fog comes out.  Also, it is out of scale for current games, and further shrinking would look bad.

But if nothing else, it should be interesting to some people to see how I did it, and maybe someone with more talent can give me some tips!

I find the screenshot below especially interesting because it shows how GIMP, Paint.net, and Photoshop handles overlay colors differently.  In my opinion, Photoshop does the best job.  Paint.net is even better than GIMP for colors, but Paint.net doesn't have the same powerful tools that GIMP has.

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Same image in 3 different editors.
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The Zip file

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#66: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:33 am
    —
This is just sooo cool.
The fact that you included 14 different camo patterns is just Awesome.

I re-sized the Tank to the scale that TT did for his Mod and to be honest with you I really like it.

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#67: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:27 am
    —
Glad you like it.  Are you familiar with the dodge and burn tools?  It could be easily touched up with those tools to make outlines possible.

Although to do it right, I should have made the bump map at 200% the correct scale, and then reduced by 50%, instead of simply reducing the finished sprite.

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#68: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:04 pm
    —
Thanks for the help.
Ill see if I can figure out what you mean.

What ideas have you got for Winter Camo?
#69: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:50 pm
    —
I've never been too good at making winter camos.  I usually take the shortcut of just making a whitewashed version (basically just a plain white camo layer.)

You know, this really is a work in progress, and I'm continuing to get a grasp on this process.  Thanks for posting the CC image.  It reminded me that I needed to highlight the edges around the hull.  In the youtube video I posted earlier of that man painting his model, if you fast forward to around 33:40 you can see him highlighting the edges, and that basically what I mean by "dodging" the image, which is basically just lightening certain pixels to make them stand out.

Anyway, I used the dodge tool to highlight the edges, and someone on the GIMP forum suggested that I use the "Curves" tool to widen the grayscale color range, making the sprite stand out more and appear more metallic.  I messed with it for awhile to get a good primer gray image.  I may have overdone the effect, but oh well, I can always undo it.

For the winter camo, I applied a base coat of olivegreen and then used the paintbrush to add strokes of greywhite.  Alternately, I could have just painted the basecoat as greywhite and then brushed on strokes of olivegreen.

Also, I've added a pic of 3 different camo pattern in another game that uses 32 bit graphics (with a genuine alpha channel.)  The sprites on the left SHOULD look this good in the new game, when it comes out.

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Winter painting
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#70: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: CaptSam,  PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:24 am
    —
For anybody who is interested, I've been practicing with some classic pixel art style images.  I think in the Tiger there is less than 8 different shades of gray.  I mean this isn't 8 bit artwork here with the camo, but the underlying gray scale image uses just a few shades and could have been made in Microsoft Paint, if anyone could stand doing such a thing.

The other pic compares 2 Panzer IV's made mostly in a pixel-by-pixel painting, but the T-34 is done using a bumpmap, which is why it looks like a little plastic toy.

There are some pixel art forums and those guys are fanatics about pixel art, and my work probably wouldn't qualify as "pixel art," but I do get lots of tips by following their advice:

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#71: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:05 am
    —
How do you guys make new shadows for a new vehicle in PitF/GtC?

Edit:

Found this http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3270333&mpage=1&key=&#3270337
 
But don't understand  100%. So I just make one shadow and keep rotating it?
#72: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: ScnelleMeyer,  PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:10 am
    —
I never tried doing a new shadow for Pitf or GtC..
Maybe its possible to still make the shadows made with CCVehShEdit work by converting them in some way?

In the post you linked I believe Conrad made his shadows from a 3D model.


Edit: I checked the shadows now: I did not yet do a full test, but I think its possible to work with shadows created with CCVehShEdit along these lines:

- The shadows in Pitf/GtC are 32bit with ALFA-CHANNEL and this is the biggest difference from the older releases.

Unpack the shadows made with CCVehShEdit to .tgas
Create an alfa channel in one of thes images, paste here the shadow area (The green) from the background/RGB layer. bucket fill this green area with the correct GREY colour (8c8c8c) - Pick it from one of the Pitf shadows - alfa-channel.
Now turn the RGB back on and select it - then fill EVERYTHING on the background (RGB-Layer) with the very dark blue like on the Pitf shadows: (010017)

Make this operation an action in PS and then make PS batch edit the rest of the images the same way.
Then you need to rename images to Pitf naming convension - There is a "0" less in the .tga file names...
A programme called "Bulk renaming utility" is very handy for this.

Last thing is to make the .txt document that the shadows pack with.

Let me know how it goes Kanov:D

Btw what vehicle have you made?
#73: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: ScnelleMeyer,  PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:29 pm
    —
Shadow animation made with Gimp.

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#74: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:00 pm
    —
I understood about half of what you wrote lol

I just imported a T34 from CC3 to GtC in the zoomed in view but with out shadow because I started yesterday and didn't understand shit about shadows so let's hope a bit of trial error will fix that.

CC3 shadows are partial, GtC are full real shadows, I suppose I can't just transfer from CC3 to GtC? and besides the color of shadows when unpacked in cc3 is green but on GtC they are transparent black?

Plus I had some trouble to have the turret show up, wasted like 3 hrs in that. It turns out that the turret TGA is not read by GIMP as is, neither the hull for that matter, but the hull I could convert it to pixel type A8R8G8B8 and Gimp would read it, doing the same to the turret file would make it show in GIMP but it didn't show up in game, so I finally opened a tiger turret from the original game, deleted it and cut&pasted the t34 turret and it finally showed up.

Downloading Photoshop CS2 right now, maybe it will give less trouble.

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#75: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: ScnelleMeyer,  PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:09 pm
    —
Cool project!
- You could go the easy route of using the T-34 and other Sovjet tanks with shadows from Nomada Firefox's "1946" mod for GtC.
The shadows looks OK in that mod. (I do not know how he converted them from CC5 though.)

Quote:
CC3 shadows are partial, GtC are full real shadows, I suppose I can't just transfer from CC3 to GtC? and besides the color of shadows when unpacked in cc3 is green but on GtC they are transparent black?


You can not transfer the shadows directly.
When you get PS2 downloaded you will see that there is a "Channels" tab next to your "Layers" tab. If you open a GtC .tga shadow file it will have an "Alfa-Channel" there. - This is where the graphic showing in the game is located. - The "normal" layer seemes black as you say , but it is really a dark blue.
To convert the CC3 shadows to GtC the green part need to go into this Alfa channel.

PS2 should also be able to open and save 16-bit .tga files.
#76: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:45 pm
    —
I'm now trying with World of Tanks and War Thunder models then viewing the models in this page:

https://3dviewer.net/


It lets you hide the turret/hull and other stuff, provided they have their own model. It does not cast shadows though but it is the best I have found. Blender has a million buttons and options and I'm just lost in that but if you have the knowledge I figure it would be easier to do it there. The page I provided is the best I have found so far, others do not let you hide parts of the tank, but if anyone finds an alternative please share, I'm looking for one that can make the models cast a shadow.

I just figured minutes ago how to load custom skins that you can download for free on other sites, so I'm pretty excited. I will try to load a custom tank tonight and see how it looks. Will try first to do it with one image and then will try the whole 17 images to get a 3d effect. Lots of tuning and experimentation needed, for example how far is the ideal zoom level to start working on the image and put it in a CC game.

If anyone wants to try using a particular model just ask and I will try to provide the 3d model obj if I can find it and then you can search for custom skins and use them on your own to make your own vehicles! I have soviet, american, german and many other nationalities.

By the way, any chance to get some The Bloody First models as obj or stl? I want to see how they look.

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Tiger Turret. WarThunder
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#77: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:13 pm
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Same 3D model, different camo downloaded from a page.

Tiger camo 2.PNG
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#78: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Aetius,  PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:36 am
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Very interesting thread, somehow missed this one.

As it happens i'm adding vehicles to the Radzymin mod, i've already added SU-57 and Valentine IX tank for the soviets, see screenshot.
I plan to add a Panzerkampfwagen II Ausf. L "Luchs" for the germans, i use a downsized Pitf graphic for this but not 100% satisfied with it, i would like it to have a more pronounced camo scheme (like the tiger posted above here).

If you could help me with this i would appreciate it.

Aetius

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#79: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:26 pm
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Hi,

Here is how it looks: original model and with the same camo used on the Tiger. This is from World of Tanks, The site I got them from didn't have the one used in War Thunder. I assume by the image you posted that you wanted a Luchs using the 2cm KwK (there were several cannon and turret options) since the 3.7cm KwK looks too short in comparison to your image and the 2cm FlaK looks comically long!

As you can see there are from different 3D viewers, in the first one they look much nicer with shadows but you can't add skins and can't hide the Turret! and in the other one you can apply custom skins and hide specific parts but the models do not look as nice! that's life for you I guess. I think in Blender you should be able to even rotate the turret, not possible in these viewers I'm using.

There's another 3d viewer you can use, you must sign up first https://viewer.autodesk.com/ it has shadows, can hide the turret but the parts are not as individual as in http://3dviewer.net, they are like grouped together but it is not a big deal. I can't open it right now for some reason but is the one I was using at home. It is still very difficult to make them look right in game for me, it is not as easy as I had though just resize the model, you must touch up details everytime you try and minimize the image. I tried for several hours to get a Tiger down to game size but didn't look right, still trying. Maybe you have better luck.

Send me your email if you wish me to send you the zipped model so you can do tests yourself as I don't want to upload them here and put the site in trouble!

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#80: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Aetius,  PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:22 am
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I'll try the 3viewer links (sent you PM about th zip), i've tried experimenting with 3D images before but it makes my PC very slow or won't run (i have a very old pc of almost 15 years now that i'm quite fond of).
As it happens i was working on a tiger image to, using the GTC one as a basis.
I have the same problem, downsizing takes away a lot of detail that you have to touch up afterwards.

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#81: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:32 pm
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I think the real secret to maintain detail is to convert the images you get from top down 3D models to SVG vectorized files, use Inkscape to do this to the png image taken in full size then reduce to required size, convert to TGA (with GIMP or photoshop) and test in game.

If you look at the tank files from CC3 you will see they have so much detail even at small sizes. Also some are like flipped sideways, for example the Tiger has the bow MG on the opposite side. Very weird, if you change it back the tilt effect and shadow effect on the image is different so I don't know if it was a bug or a decision to leave it as that (and why?) but nobody complained back then or at least I don't remember.
#82: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:42 pm
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found this nice blog post about vehicle creation for a hex based game, and even what seems a camouflage plug in for photoshop. Surely it can make painting vehicles much less tedious.

https://www.wargamedesignstudio.com/2016/10/07/vehicle-graphics-for-maleme-crete-and-beyond/
#83: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: ScnelleMeyer,  PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:31 pm
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I tried that PS plugin on my CS6 edition, but could not get it to work..
#84: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Author: sample,  PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:43 pm
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Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
I think the real secret to maintain detail is to convert the images you get from top down 3D models to SVG vectorized files, use Inkscape to do this to the png image taken in full size then reduce to required size, convert to TGA (with GIMP or photoshop) and test in game.

If you look at the tank files from CC3 you will see they have so much detail even at small sizes. Also some are like flipped sideways, for example the Tiger has the bow MG on the opposite side. Very weird, if you change it back the tilt effect and shadow effect on the image is different so I don't know if it was a bug or a decision to leave it as that (and why?) but nobody complained back then or at least I don't remember.


Hello everyone,

I did run some tests using a drawing of a Marder vehicle found on internet with the following results:
- marderII-big is the original file, with unaltered size or graphic corrections
- marder II scale down, is the result of using the scale down function in Photoshop (version 24.3.0) applied directly to marderII-big file, using the size of Marder III vehicle from CC3, zoomed mode for reference. No graphic corrections were applied.
- The marder-II 8bit version is the result of the following procedure: the original file (marderII-big) was exported as .png with the option 'Smaler File 8-bit' checked, without altering the size of it; after the export, the resulting file was resized using the same Marder III vehicle from CC3, zoomed mode. Once again, no graphic correction were applied. For me at least there are far more details preserved using this method vs the first one.

My guess is, as 8bit graphic was probably the norm during '95 ~ '96, at least when the first CC version came out, the developers designed the vehicles and guns using this standard, and later switched to 16bit or 32bit.

best regards
\m/

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