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#1: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:11 pm
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Sorry for complaining but....playing GC as Germans, settings Line vs Line, force morale on and timer 15 minutes

Still holding the Valkensward after five battles with just a Command team and a Ad-hook unit...the britts never attack! dont even see them on the map :(

Even changed the Valkensward VL to 200 p, but nothings happen...same with Eindhoven! holding the map with an Mg34, 1 Command team, 1 Ad-Hoc and 2 88 FlaK. The AB troops is hiding in the buildings in the north of the map and never attacks.... Crying or Very sad

I thought the AI was improved in this new version..for me it feels worse than in CCTLD, but i could be wrong...

#2: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:20 pm
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Quote:

but i could be wrong...

Been reported 100+ times even before release.

it's being looked at.

#3: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:24 pm
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100+ times BEFORE release!!??

Well, now its 101+ AFTER release Shocked

....

#4: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:27 pm
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you misquoted me and left out

Quote:

even

so that would make 130

#5: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:26 am
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The tactical AI for all the "CC5-enhanced engine" re-releases offer a good challenge only of you're playing as the attacker.
Unfortunately lots of Ops and GCs involve attack and counter-attack scenarios Rolling Eyes

Vetmods can boost the AI to be more aggressive...but Vetmod AI is not suited for scenarios where the AI is supposed to defend Wink

#6: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:45 am
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Quote:

Vetmods can boost the AI to be more aggressive...but Vetmod AI is not suited for scenarios where the AI is supposed to defend

With all my respects for the creators (I included) this is not correct, the vetmods do not boost the IA to be more agressive. They give worse units to the human and better units to the IA but they are not more agresive, they are more hard if you attack them with your worse troops, there is a big difference with it and most of the games make this same.

Most of the times LSA and all the new reeditions make some different, on them IA attacks you, IA has been set for look for the enemy the most close as a human player. Of course, this is not perfect, sometimes it needs lot of time for attack you and other times it could be better but this is a lot better than the old CC games.

Personally if there are some problems with it, most of the times, this is because first the enter positions are too far from defense positions and because maps are too big. On my opinion the 15 teams are too few troops for these big maps. Rolling Eyes

But the IA is not bad.

#7: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:24 am
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Besides giving best and more units to AI and worse/less units for the player...Vetmods (I don't know about your own vetmod, Firefox) also code infantry as vehicles (in the SAI data)...this tweak alone makes them more aggressive in attacking...this gives the AI that boost in aggresivenes.
"Infantry coded as vehicles" cannot enter buildings though...so these Vetmods are better suited for non urban maps.

#8: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: HogansHeros,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:48 am
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I think the extreme length of the Valkensward map exacerbates the AI's problems. The fact that XXX corps starts on this map and the AI getting stick there has a crippling effect on the Allies further emphasizes the problem.

Could be a fix/work around on this map would free up XXX corps and drastically improve AI Allied performance overall. I guess we could test that by starting a GC as Germany and disbanding the unit on Valkensward and seeing if XXX corps simply becomes stuck the next time they meet any opposition

#9: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: buuface, Location: Thailand

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:21 am
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Or you could just play H2H !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

#10: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:23 am
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Valkensward is i a beautiful map! it would be a shame to take it way...

Maybe i would like to try removing the four VL:s on the way, just leaving entry point in the south and change the village VL to 200p and see what happens?

Changed VL:s on destructible bridges to 200 p and it seems to have som positive effect on the attacking AI. Now when the game is so easy modable i dont know how to remove VL:s Shocked

...can i just remove them in the BTD with excell??

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#11: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:35 am
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buuface wrote (View Post):

Or you could just play H2H !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

In the game manual it says you can play against the AI Wink

#12: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:04 am
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I have been thinking about it and I think that would be fun some as the old CC2 game with the new maps, perhaps un ABTF with the new maps but only 28 maps. I have written it on my future mods list.

#13: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:10 am
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easily and quickly edited with exel (less than 5 min)

try this sap

backup your original btd first

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#14: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:11 am
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remember to start a new GC or you could be in trouble with the btd

#15: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:18 am
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sorry, forgot the 200pt VL

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#16: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:21 am
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Thanks! Very Happy

Will try it!

Tried myself but after deleting the four VL:s the game crashed.. Embarassed

#17: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:24 am
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Did you change the control 9 to a 5?

Have a look at WaR or tLD workbook for an explanation of BTD's

#18: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:30 am
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got it!

Played a 15 minutes singlebattle with the changed VL:s and i am sad to say that it doesent seem to have any impact at all!
Moved all my Germans to the north, just leaving a recon squad in the middle of the map, played with the enemy shown to see what happens..

2 minutes: 1 Brengroup and 1 Firefly started to move North
5 minutes: still moving North, the rest of the Britts are just waiting
7 minutes: my German recon took out the Brengroup and the Firefly fleed to the south!
10 minutes: Two more UK teams moved to the north to first bridge and then run home (without getting any fire)
15 minutes: No more action, just teedrinking i suppose..

I am sorry to say that this is a disaster for the GC play, no use in playing as Germans if the XXX Corps doesent attack! Crying or Very sad

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#19: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:22 am
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Took me 4 battles until the XXX coprs in Valkensward even fired a shot at me, and they still only had reached the second small bridge! Mad

One thing that annoys me is that the AI during strat moves is a coward! Mad

2nd Para Btn has an open road to Arnhem road brige, yet he doesn't make a dash for it!
I even tried to remove ALL german BGs that were close to Arnhem to try to give 2nd Para some sense of security, but 2nd Para still have a cup of tee in east Oosterbeek.
Why? Crying or Very sad

And once XXX reaches Eindhoven they decide that the city is a great place and fudge the entire operation. Checking 3 days later (21 sep) they were still in Eindhoven! Shocked

Make the AI more agressive and smarter, please! Crying or Very sad

The fun about OMG is to try to stop XXX corps to reach Arnhem, not to wait for it to come out of Eindhoven. Confused

Otherwise good game. Very Happy

#20: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:41 am
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Yes i love it to! Very Happy

Thats why im so frustrated about this entry battle!!! changing the VL doesent seems to help... now i will look in the Base files (it should be nice to have the workbook Wink

)

(My Ostgotisk brain is going overheated right now!)

#21: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:41 am
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For playing vs the AI...play as the attacker (Allies), people! Smile

If you love playing as Germans then play PJ's Stalingrad Winter Campaigns mods (SDK, SOC, SDKDK)...or the first half of WAR.

If you must play as Germans, then maybe wait a bit for a vetmod (Salhexe is probably already busy modding one)...then you'll at least have an aggressive attacking tactical AI (not sure about the Stratmap AI...looks like a patch is needed for this).
In the meantime...try playing as Allies...the defending AI still can't setup properly, sometimes launches stupid charges and leaves perfectly good cover for no reason...but the defending AI will give you a good challenge...and sometimes even whoop ya! Smile

#22: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:44 am
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...and I forgot to mention the overpowered German MGs...makes attacking that much harder...one mistake and bodies will pile up! Wink

#23: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:47 am
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Thanks,but i will not wait for any Vetmod..i think it should work as it is Mad

I hate these soldiers coded as vehicles! Mad

I want to play the GC as singleplayer both as German and Allies and i want the XXX corps to be an aggresive force trying to reach Arnhem Razz

#24: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: 7A_Woulf, Location: Sweden

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:48 am
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"Hear, hear"

Battle for Berlin is also a kick to play as the German (with Salhexe vetmod of course!)

Another tips; -When the AI is attacking, accept truce every time they beg for it. It's nor fair to sit and have a total duck-shoot! Wink

#25: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:23 am
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Sapa wrote (View Post):

Thanks,but i will not wait for any Vetmod..i think it should work as it is Mad

I hate these soldiers coded as vehicles! Mad

Soldiers who thinks that they're halftracks/trucks are perfect for LSA because the maps are mostly rural and small towns :)

Quote:

I want to play the GC as singleplayer both as German and Allies and i want the XXX corps to be an aggresive force trying to reach Arnhem Razz

Sapa, you should know that you need the old CC2 to simulate that Very Happy

#26: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:06 pm
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Made another test (what has the developers done???)

Changed values in Data/Base/Battlegroups for all BG:s belonging to XXX Corps

Aggression +5
Caution -5
Charisma +5
Tactics +5
This is the result after 5 minutes in singleplayer battle (will test in GC) at least som units has crossed the first bridge! Dont know what happens if they get fired on (yet)...

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#27: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:20 pm
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Sapa wrote (View Post):

Made another test (what has the developers done???)

Changed values in Data/Base/Battlegroups for all BG:s belonging to XXX Corps

Aggression +5
Caution -5
Charisma +5
Tactics +5
This is the result after 5 minutes in singleplayer battle (will test in GC) at least som units has crossed the first bridge! Dont know what happens if they get fired on (yet)...

Hey...that's another VetMod trick you're using, Sapa!
Now all you need to do is add those soldiers who thinks that they're trucks and you're good to go! Smile

#28: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:37 pm
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He he Very Happy

No way! now i will look in the team files and try to figure out the units used for XXX Corps...(it would have been nice to use QClone and BGedit now)

#29: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:57 pm
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New German Grand Campaign, Line, Timer 15 minutes. Settings: all German units placed in Walkensward except 1 FJ unit in the lumbermill in the middle off the map

Changes made: Schrecken helped me change Victory Locations on Walkesward map.Removed the 4 Victory Locations (Bridge, Bridge, Crossroads and Lumbermill) Changed Walkensward village VL to 200 p.Changed in Data/Base/Battlegroup for all BG:s belonging to XXX Corps Aggression +5. Caution -5, Charisma +5, Tactics +5

Timer 1140 first Sherman at river, knocked out my single StuG

Timer 1000, Brittish Infantry attacking my unit in the lumbermill, fought them off

Timer 0811 Brittish Infantry attacking village Walkensward, the attack was repulsed

No more action during this first battle.Real big changes from before but it is not perfect..

What can i know..im just an aluminium hot roller Wink

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#30: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Mafi, Location: Germany

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:59 pm
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Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):

I have been thinking about it and I think that would be fun some as the old CC2 game with the new maps, perhaps un ABTF with the new maps but only 28 maps. I have written it on my future mods list.

Hi Firefox,

JFYI: original CC2 is capable to handle up to 50 maps, 11 operations. Each Operation can have up to 5 battles (= maps), so all in all the 50 maps-limit is still the major CC2 limit.

Cheers
Mafi

#31: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:50 pm
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Interesting that no BG's are on full aggression in stock Data.

We had to crank the Germans up to 5 in WaR to get them to move.

#32: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:59 pm
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I agree, i has some effect....

must play the GC more and see what happens to the XXX Corps Wink

Thanks for your help! Very Happy

#33: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:54 am
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Changed Battlegroup speed for all BG:s belonging to XXX Corps from 2 and 3 to 4 (Very fast)

#34: Re: AI in CCLSA Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:37 pm
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Return it and buy Firefight instead. It doesn't have such complex representation of weapons as CC but at least, the AI attacks every time you have to defend an objective.

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem

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