TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why?
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#1: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: davidssfx,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:12 pm
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What is the reason for this ... I know you could order crews that left their destroyed tanks in CC3?
#2: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:25 pm
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I think it was to stop them being used as infantry and grab Victory Locations as it wasn't realistic. Leaving them some meters where the wreck is burning is realistic though, according to developers.

Strange that in CC2 the gun and tank crews couldn't receive orders but left the battlefield in an orderly fashion, sometimes they could fight in next battles.
#3: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: davidssfx,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:49 pm
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Is it true that if a tank crew abandons, and is kept alive ... they will get a new ride (tank) in upcoming battles?
And if so, then it would be better to be able to order them to find cover (and/or protection with friendly units) ... so as not to be killed.
It seems some veteran CC players exploit this, and target these stationary crews (that abandoned their vehicle).
(ie: mooxe)  :)

If they were able to capture a VL for some reason ... I don't see a problem with that. It's not like they would be able to defend it very well against a rifle, mg, team anyway.

Last edited by davidssfx on Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:05 pm; edited 3 times in total
#4: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: davidssfx,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:57 pm
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Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
I think it was to stop them being used as infantry and grab Victory Locations as it wasn't realistic. Leaving them some meters where the wreck is burning is realistic though, according to developers.

Strange that in CC2 the gun and tank crews couldn't receive orders but left the battlefield in an orderly fashion, sometimes they could fight in next battles.


thanks for the reply ... I would prefer them to be able to be ordered, and not worry about the VL issue.
#5: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:40 pm
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Well you target those dismounted crews because it further reduces morale, they are like little freebies. Sometimes they take potshots and your guys running by as well.

I can only think of one incident over the years where someone recognized a name of a crewmen who came back later in another tank. Can't remember complete details though so I wont confirm this ever happened. I think the posts are in this forum by a PZT guy. I wish someone could absolutely prove the crewmen do come back. It seems like its just theory.

About realism. Who says its not realism? An Airborne ATG crew is (going to assume here!) trained as infantry 1st, secondary duty manning at 17pdr gun. Now if the gun is destroyed, shouldnt they fight as infantry?  Its about fun really. If my tank crews leave the map, I am not sitting here thinking, "Wow just like WW2!" The line between realism and fun is constantly shifted in this game and is always based on a few opinions.

Theres pros and con to dismounted crews being stationary, fleeing or being commandable troops.

Combine this debate with what teams are allowed to grab VLs. Really everyone should weigh in on whats best.

My vote goes to all crews being commandable. I will settle for all primary infantrymen that man guns as a secondary duty being commandable, while all tanks crews become stationary and not flee & armoured command teams should be commandable.
#6: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:45 pm
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CC3 the crews could be used as death squads...

CC5 they abandoned vehicle and lay on the ground to be killed.

As it drove me insane that my precious crews just lay down to die I suggested this be changed for LSA.

In LSA crews exit the map by the best means they can find and live to fight another day.

Last edited by schrecken on Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
#7: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:44 pm
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Besides one rule for all. There is a better way to do this. Suggestions?
#8: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:48 pm
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You have to have the same rule for all  Smile
#9: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: davidssfx,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:51 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

In LSA crews exit the map by the best means they can find and live to fight another day.


Is this possible in TLD? ... if so how?

Thanks
David
#10: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:53 pm
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It's in the exe, so not unless it's included in a patch.
#11: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:04 pm
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Quote:
I can only think of one incident over the years where someone recognized a name of a crewmen who came back later in another tank. Can't remember complete details though so I wont confirm this ever happened. I think the posts are in this forum by a PZT guy. I wish someone could absolutely prove the crewmen do come back. It seems like its just theory.

the most famous is Wittmann, who bailed out at V-B, came again and bailed out second time Smile.

Quote:
In LSA crews exit the map by the best means they can find and live to fight another day.

very good IMO, although with possibility to takean enemy VL, disclosure an enemy unit Smile
#12: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: davidssfx,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:18 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):
It's in the exe, so not unless it's included in a patch.


ok ... thanks
#13: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: davidssfx,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:27 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):
CC3 the crews could be used as death squads ...


what do you mean by this ... were they better protected by their coding, or some other reason?
#14: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:31 pm
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No

If they abandoned their vehicle you could order them about the map, taking VL's etc. (in cc3 and CoI)

Unrealistic as trained crews in general ran to safety and to later man another vehicle.
#15: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:11 pm
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One rule is what makes it unrealistic. What about Airborne infantry who manned ATGs? Theres many what ifs and maybes that make one rule unsatisfying. This may be a good option to take out of an exe file.
#16: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:14 pm
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There's a post here somewhere were someone managed to make the gun crews take orders by changing their SAI from 'Gun' to 'AT Team', I have tested it and it works.

Will they be moving around the battlefield hunting tanks and giving away their positions even more easily? will the bigger guns be able to be put inside small buildings now that they behave as an infantry unit? I haven't tested it thoroughly to be honest.

As for the tanks, making them Command Vehicles can make them take orders. I don't remember if it was in the SAI or the Type column though and what side effects it had. I know that if the Type column is changed it messes up with the composition of the BG, the SAI can make units behavior and attributes change, like infantry coded as trucks makes them run for VL's but leaves them unable to enter buildings.
#17: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: davidssfx,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:25 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):
No

If they abandoned their vehicle you could order them about the map, taking VL's etc. (in cc3 and CoI)

Unrealistic as trained crews in general ran to safety and to later man another vehicle.


ok ... thanks for explaining. Knowing that they are just normal (under equipped infantry) helps to decide what is best.

I think it's best to let the decision of what they do, be left to the human commander ... for all guns, and vehicles.
A smart human commander will move them back to safety (to fight another day), a careless commander may waste them ... and in a desperate situation they could be used to hold a map, or whatever. Nevertheless it's something else the human commander must manage, bringing more interest to the battle.
We're going to implement this in the next Ground Tactics mod update
#18: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:31 pm
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Airbourne ATG crews spent all their time hiding in holes.
#19: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:33 pm
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David, good points
#20: Re: TLD abandoned vehicle crews can't take orders ... why? Author: davidssfx,  PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:40 pm
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Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
There's a post here somewhere were someone managed to make the gun crews take orders by changing their SAI from 'Gun' to 'AT Team', I have tested it and it works.

Will they be moving around the battlefield hunting tanks and giving away their positions even more easily? will the bigger guns be able to be put inside small buildings now that they behave as an infantry unit? I haven't tested it thoroughly to be honest.

As for the tanks, making them Command Vehicles can make them take orders. I don't remember if it was in the SAI or the Type column though and what side effects it had. I know that if the Type column is changed it messes up with the composition of the BG, the SAI can make units behavior and attributes change, like infantry coded as trucks makes them run for VL's but leaves them unable to enter buildings.


I guess we'll have to figure out how they did it in CC3 ... and see if it has any unwanted effects with BG's, etc. Anyone have any ideas?
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