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#1: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: vonB,

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:17 pm
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Close Combat Operation Data manager for CC3/CoI is ready to start work producing an Editor. While the ultimate goal is to make eveything modifiable, that's quite a large undertaking, and would make debugging and testing a much bigger job.

So...

I am planning to implement this in phases. What I would like from anyone is suggestions on what values you would like to have first so you can play with them. If you want to know what values are available, download the CCIIICoIBattleData.exe (0.0.0.5), and take a look at all the Fields available in all the Tabs. Either that, or go through the Scenario Editor and identify values you would like to be able to play with.

Based on that, I can put together a prioritised list of values to work on, and do it in stages.

At this stage, what you will be getting is an Application that can basically create the same thing as that which you create when you use the Scenario Editor in CC3/CoI, but with unrestricted access to what values you can put in.

Although there is a much bigger and more ambitious game plan for CCODM, these are the first steps towards that.

For example, you might want to be able to specify 10 Barrages instead of 4. The slots are there in the Scenario File, but we do not know if it will work, but that's what testing is all about.

As Schreck has already mentioned, if 10 Barrages will work, that might add a bit of spice to a WWI Mod? (well, unless you are on the receiving end... Wink

)

So please post your suggestions here.

#2: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:12 am
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- deployeable mine fields

~ Deployable smoke screens at the start of the turn to help cloak attacking forces

#3: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: vonB,

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:06 pm
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Hi Shane. Interesting suggestions I hadn't thought of those. Mainly because they are not part of the Scenario File.

However, isn't the 'Minefield' part of the Map Coding? If so, then surely it can be modified by an Application, and I think this is a very interesting component, and I would like to look into this further. You are a Map Guru, so you could help me greatly by pointing me in the right direction, so I would appreciate it if you could drop me a line (vonb@closecombat.ie).

There is no reason in principle that any of the Map Coding cannot be modified by an Application, though not having looked into it or tried it, this is only my guess. I suppose MAFI would have some expert opnion and guidance as well?

The other comment about the smoke is also interesting, but I have no idea where to start. If it is something that would have to be done purely from the CC Engine, then it's a non-starter for me to do. Had you any thoughts on this?

#4: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: BerndN, Location: Outer space

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:39 pm
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I checked shortly and minefields seem to be included in the map (Coi as well as LSA) and exploded mines in the tmp files belonging to a save game. Interesting question though as to where the mines are defined. I assume in one of the text ascii files but I would think that others know better.

Laying smoke would be great in any CC title. But I believe that it should be added via the artillery/planes stuff? Interesting though Smile

#5: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: papa_whisky,

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:09 am
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Changes in the attributes of the map elements are saved such as shell holes for example, so you should be able to alter those attributes to mine

#6: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:49 am
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vonB wrote (View Post):

Hi Shane. Interesting suggestions I hadn't thought of those. Mainly because they are not part of the Scenario File.

However, isn't the 'Minefield' part of the Map Coding? If so, then surely it can be modified by an Application, and I think this is a very interesting component, and I would like to look into this further. You are a Map Guru, so you could help me greatly by pointing me in the right direction, so I would appreciate it if you could drop me a line (vonb@closecombat.ie).

There is no reason in principle that any of the Map Coding cannot be modified by an Application, though not having looked into it or tried it, this is only my guess. I suppose MAFI would have some expert opnion and guidance as well?

The other comment about the smoke is also interesting, but I have no idea where to start. If it is something that would have to be done purely from the CC Engine, then it's a non-starter for me to do. Had you any thoughts on this?

yeah mines are part of the map coding process but there's no reason why the need be (any more than there should really be little "mine graphics" ion screen. When you posed the question those two items popped into my mind without any deeper reasoning. It struck me that a band of mines (visible or not) will change the flow of battle on a map. Scatter a few or a lot in the right place and you force the attacker into new plans or extra loses/time spent passing them and add strength to a weak defender. What I was thinking the mines could be added with some sort of system like free deploy, same map different senerio.

Smoke same thing. If you can add mines you can also add smoke shells. the tricky thing might be to have them pre detonated when the game begines. though, thinking about it on the wing here, if you can add extra Arty barrages you could probably generate smoke the same way, preplanned, preplotted smoke barrages?

Edit Should have read down to BerndN's message LOL yeah just like that

#7: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:55 am
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Ok i'll go again could CCODM be used to add extra bonus points for unit selection upon capture of VLs... or maybe even more fun, remove points from the unit selection on the next day... a sort of invert reward for success

#8: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: vonB,

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:22 pm
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I am definately going to look deeper into handling Mines, as I think something is do'able. I also like the idea of not (necessarily) having Mines shown on the Map(s) particularly for the attacker. They may (or may not) know that there are mines in the area, and as you say, not knowing would make the attacker consider their tactics more carefully.

However, it would seem sensible that the defender would know where the mines are, as they deployed them? Mind you, this also gets interesting when there is ebb and flow, and attackers/defenders return to old ground perhaps in different ways.

Quote:

could CCODM be used to add extra bonus points for unit selection upon capture of VLs

The short answer is yes, I think it may be able to. The long answer is how, and I need to spend some thought on this. I like the idea. The first productions of CCODM will not be able to work very interactively. it will be more an application than can be used to create a custom scenario, and the very first developments will not be handling the Saved Game File. That will come in due course.

Thanks all for the suggestions. Keep them coming! Even if they are not necessarily workable directly with CC, this is good fodder for CCOPS, which will be able to do far more in terms of interacting with an active series of games (i.e. Operation).

Smoke barrages?

What I like about these suggestions is that it helps to give me some focus as to what to be concentrating on. So please do keep them coming!

#9: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:50 pm
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I would be happy by saving my forces together with their operational history and medals and use them in another mod, Like I said, Play the 1941, 2nd SS or any other eastern campaign, save the soldiers with all their stats, load up another mod (western Front, afrika) and use my Eastern veterans.

Making the soldiers fit into new teams would be the hard part I think.

#10: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: vonB,

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:14 pm
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Quote:

I would be happy by saving my forces together with their operational history and medals and use them in another mod, Like I said, Play the 1941, 2nd SS or any other eastern campaign, save the soldiers with all their stats, load up another mod (western Front, afrika) and use my Eastern veterans.

Making the soldiers fit into new teams would be the hard part I think.

Thanks for that. I think this is do'able. It is a bit tricksy, but all the Data needed is available in the Saved Game File. In some ways it would be an expansion of the capability of CCODM to import/export Data from Saved Game File to Scenario or Saved Game File.

It's tricksy because every individual soldier is indexed, and the indexes are unique to each Scenario or Saved Game File, so inserting/replacing in a Scenario or Saved Game File would be a challange, but far from impossible.

I like the idea though, and am also adding it to the CCOPS agenda.

#11: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:00 pm
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vonB wrote (View Post):

It's tricksy because every individual soldier is indexed

Does that mean that qualities like health, strength and intelligence which are currently wrapped up in an overall measure of quality will become moddable?

#12: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: vonB,

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:46 pm
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Quote:

Does that mean that qualities like health, strength and intelligence which are currently wrapped up in an overall measure of quality will become moddable?

Yes, I reckon so. They are just numbers under the hood. How CC translates them I do not know (yet), but I reckon that will also be cracked one way or another, by trial and error if by no other means.

With CCODM completed, a Strategic game will be able to use the Saved Game File as a way to keep track of every individual in a BG, just as CC does, so Health, Experience, Strneght, Intelligence, Medals, and whatever can all be used.

Fancy being able to award selected soldiers in your BG with medals?

It also means being able to manually set these values.

I am trying to get back to the Operation Status section of the Saved Game File, as that needs finishing. I have completed the Operation Data section. It needs an Editor, but the grunt work is done.

#13: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:56 pm
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vonB wrote (View Post):

How CC translates them I do not know (yet), but I reckon that will also be cracked one way or another, by trial and error if by no other means.

I wouldn't waste effort on this, Chris. Time is limited. Choose your battles; focus and finish!

vonB wrote (View Post):

a Strategic game will be able to use the Saved Game File as a way to keep track of every individual in a BG, just as CC does, so Health, Experience, Strneght, Intelligence, Medals, and whatever can all be used.

It also means being able to manually set these values.

This is good enough. This is one "under the bonnet" calculation which I trust the game to make.

vonB wrote (View Post):

I am trying to get back to the Operation Status section of the Saved Game File, as that needs finishing. I have completed the Operation Data section. It needs an Editor, but the grunt work is done.

Grand

#14: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:58 pm
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Have we asked the kind of questions you expected when you started this thread; or have we gone off leftfield?

#15: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: vonB,

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:14 pm
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Sort of as expected. I expect the questions and requests to become more vigorous once there is a prototype available for people to muck around with... Cool

#16: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:17 pm
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OK

#17: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: southern_land,

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:17 am
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vonB wrote (View Post):

[quote]
Fancy being able to award selected soldiers in your BG with medals?

F@&k medals! What about the ability to add ammo or weapons to selected units? Imagine being able to stock an elite unit with 10 panzerfausts (with approprite weigh penalty) and drop them into a nasty spot at the start of the game or the ability to buy extra ammo for your favourite sniper. Obviously you (well I) wouldn't want the feature too "gamey" but it could lend itself to the use of previously captured weapons too, grenades, smgs

See that's why I get the big bucks ~ always thinking Very Happy

#18: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: vonB,

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:41 am
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There is only one teency weency little problem with that; the Saved Game File doesn't deal with weapons and ammo... Apart from that, it's a brilliant idea! Wink

#19: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:07 pm
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vonB wrote (View Post):

The Saved Game File doesn't deal with weapons and ammo...

Hmm ...

#20: Re: CCODM : Suggestions for Rev 1 please... Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:12 pm
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Gday comrades

Having not played CC for near on a year, i cant think of any ideas for a scenario editor.

Some CCers though, have wanted to be able to start a campaign with the same men thay finished the previous campaign with, particularly with DOF which has 3 Campaigns which, consecutively, cover the Eastern front war, from beggining to end, using the 42 DOF campaign OPs.

When it comes to making a change to CC3/COI, the ONE thing, that would make the single biggest improvement to the game, would be if you could make it impossible for the AI to flee Rolling Eyes

cheers

AGS

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