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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too Far

#1: Scavenging. Author: Willdasmiffking, Location: Suffolk, England.

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:42 am
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Is it true that soldiers can scavenge weapons and ammunition in CC2? I found this bit on wikipedia:

Ammunition levels The game also modelled the amount of ammunition each unit possessed. Troops in a heavy fire-fight would quickly run out of ammunition. Once out of ammunition they would resort to bayonet fighting, or surrender to any enemies that approached them, although they could also scavenge weapons or ammunition from fallen friendly and enemy soldiers. This is in contrast to most RTS games, where units have unlimited ammunition supplies.
Scavenging: Soldiers that expended all ammo could be moved in to close vicinity of dead soldiers to take their ammunition. If no ammunition was present at times they would pick up whatever weapon the dead soldier had. Enemy weapons could be picked up as well. However, enemy ammo can not be scavenged by itself.

If so, how would you get men to scavenge?

#2: Re: Scavenging. Author: vonB,

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:28 am
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All you can do is move your soldiers who have run out of ammo close to dead soldiers. The game deicdes if they will scavenge, that is you cannot instruct them to do so directly. Try it...

#3: Re: Scavenging. Author: yuma,

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:20 pm
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don't think there is any scavenging in CC2

#4: Re: Scavenging. Author: vonB,

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:46 pm
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Quote:

don't think there is any scavenging in CC2

Come to think of it, I am not 100% sure either, it is so long since I played it... but if it is in CC2, then that's how it is done.

#5: Re: Scavenging. Author: Willdasmiffking, Location: Suffolk, England.

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:23 pm
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Thanks chaps.

#6: Re: Scavenging. Author: Ivan_Zaitzev,

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:26 pm
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Yuma is right, sadly there is no scavenging in CC2.

#7: Fire Discipline Author: sigeena,

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:21 am
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That's what Fire Discipline is about.

It's especially fun in the GC, where supply for Arnhem Bridge was a pathetic 30%. I once had a Bren Team with only 80 rds of Bren ammo. Unless the enemy is charging at me from 80m (PB range), I wasn't opening up.

#8: Re: Scavenging. Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:55 pm
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Can't say that I have ever seen *ammunition* scavenging in any of the series. Have seen plenty of weapon scavenging.

#9: Re: Scavenging. Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:18 pm
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yuma wrote (View Post):

don't think there is any scavenging in CC2

It's been a long time since I used the 2.0b patch, but I remember that sometimes my Aufklärer men who ran out of ammo picked it up from KIA member(s) of the team - it happened several times!

However, since the 3.2 (TH community) patch came out the Sturmgrenadier team soldiers can pick up an MG42 if the originally designated operator gets one up his ass. I think we designated 4 Sturm men as an "MG42 team", and later made a decrease to 3 men in 3.4 patch, in order to enable the 4th soldier to fire his "original" weapon instead assisting MG42.

#10: Re: Scavenging. Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:15 am
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CSO_Talorgan wrote (View Post):

Can't say that I have ever seen *ammunition* scavenging in any of the series. Have seen plenty of weapon scavenging.

There is ammo scavenging in CC4/5.

#11: Re: Scavenging. Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:56 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

CSO_Talorgan wrote (View Post):

Can't say that I have ever seen *ammunition* scavenging in any of the series. Have seen plenty of weapon scavenging.

There is ammo scavenging in CC4/5.

Really? Are you sure that the soldiers didn't just pick up weapons from KIA/WIA friendlies?

#12: Re: Scavenging. Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:59 am
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Have to check carefully that they didn't pick up the same weapon as they originally had and it's ammo.

#13: Re: Scavenging. Author: Andreus,

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:54 am
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Well, from my experience, in CC4/5 if they run over a dead friendly sharing the same weapon, they take the ammo.
If they run over anything dead and they can't take the ammo, they just pick up the brand new weapon... I had an US command squad picking up a MG42 in WaR... Never happened again though, they seem to rather pick up lighter weapons as a preference.

#14: Re: Scavenging. Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:16 pm
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Andreus wrote (View Post):

Well, from my experience, in CC4/5 if they run over a dead friendly sharing the same weapon, they take the ammo.
If they run over anything dead and they can't take the ammo, they just pick up the brand new weapon... I had an US command squad picking up a MG42 in WaR... Never happened again though, they seem to rather pick up lighter weapons as a preference.

That would mean that they took the same weapon from the dead friendly (this one with ammo).
If soldiers can scavenge ammo...then they should also be able to share ammo between men in the squad.
In CC4/CC5...you will often see a squad member run out of ammo...while other members of the squad with the same weapons have plenty of ammo...they should be able to throw a spare clip or two to the guy out of ammo.

#15: Re: Scavenging. Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:38 pm
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I suppose there is no way to tell if they pick up an identical weapon with more ammo, or just pick up the ammo. You would have to record how much ammo a soldier dies with as a start. They must pick up some ammo, if they didnt they are just picking up whats in the magazine at the time.

#16: Re: Scavenging. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:06 pm
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OK, here's the trick to scavenging, once a well kept secret but I guess it doesn't matter now, and we all should get to know the intricacies of this fine game.

A soldier will scavenge when:

1.- He's near a dead body
2.- Said dead body had a weapon on his hands when he died, and this weapon had ammo.
3.- He is low on ammo on his primary/crewed weapon.
4.- And doesn't have another weapon left, including PzFausts, explosive charges, molotovs etc.
5.- His secondary weapon is on its last magazine or less if its a multiple shot per magazine weapon (other firearm).
6.- They pick up ammo of the same type of weapon they are carrying, provided that they are low on ammo but have more than a magazine left, otherwise if they are on their last magazine, they will pick another weapon

That's why soldiers that are out of ammo but left over dead bodies sometimes don't pick up anything, it's because they have other weapon there, the culprits are mostly close range AT weapons that never get to be used.

They do Pick up ammo, try with similar teams, say a recon team, deplete the ammo of one of them (not necessary to expend all of it) and send the other to die around there, the healthy team will pick up ammo if the criteria above is met. Write the number of rounds if you want.

Crewed weapons are kind of a wildcard, they can be passed around within a team not mattering any of the above (cc3 to cctld). For them to be picked up from the dead it can happen but it is very rare, I think personal weapons have priority.

Don't know if there's a limit to scavenging, some say they are limited to 3 scavenged guns (scavenge one waste its ammo, scavenge other etc).

Would be cool to scavenge Panzerfausts and other useful AT weapons, as it is now it is almost impossible because they are mostly single shot weapons and is very hard that a coincidence of killing a soldier while he is carrying a panzerfaust BUT with out him firing it is accomplished.

Last edited by Pzt_Kanov on Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

#17: Re: Scavenging. Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:34 pm
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Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):

OK, here's the trick to scavenging, once a well kept secret but I guess it doesn't matter now, and we all should get to know the intricacies of this fine game.

A soldier will scavenge when:

1.- He's near a dead body
2.- Said dead body had a weapon on his hands when he died, and this weapon had ammo.
3.- He is low on ammo on his primary/crewed weapon.
4.- And doesn't have another weapon left, including PzFausts, explosive charges, molotovs etc.
5.- His secondary weapon is on its last magazine or less if its a multiple shot per magazine weapon (other firearm).
6.- They pick up ammo of the same type of weapon they are carrying, provided that they are low on ammo but have more than a magazine left.

That's why soldiers that are out of ammo but left over dead bodies sometimes don't pick up anything, it's because they have other weapon there, they are mostly close range AT weapons that never get to be used.

They do Pick up ammo, try with similar teams, say a recon team, deplete the ammo of one of them (not necessary to expend all of it) and send the other to die around there, the healthy team will pick up ammo if the criteria above is met. Write the number of rounds if you want.

Crewed weapons are kind of a wildcard, they can be passed around within a team not mattering any of the above (cc3 to cctld). For them to be picked up from the dead I think personal weapons have priority, it can happen but it is very rare.

Don't know if there's a limit to scavenging, some say they are limited to 3 scavenged guns (scavenge one waste its ammo, scavenge other etc).

Thanks for the detailed intel, Pzt_Kanov! Nicely done!
I still think that for similar/identical weapons...the way the engine handles it...scavenging soldiers actually pick up identical weapon (incl. ammo and clips)...of course in the game stats you get the same results as picking up ammo and clips.
So either way, the way the aging CC4/CC5 engine handles scavenging is still pretty amazing.

Quote:

Would be cool to scavenge Panzerfausts and other useful AT weapons, as it is now it is almost impossible because they are mostly single shot weapons and is very hard that a coincidence of killing a soldier while he is carrying a panzerfaust BUT with out him firing it is accomplished.

It is possible...while playtesting Battle of Surabaya (status=on hold)...I've seen out of ammo Gurkha riflemen pick up Japanese Lunge Mines from dead Indonesian soldiers.
At first I didn't notice that they had run out of ammo...and sent them forward to take a VL...when they got there I was puzzled that the Gurkhas now carried "tridents" instead of rifles Wink

#18: Re: Scavenging. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:12 pm
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squadleader_id wrote:

Did you made those soldiers carry those weapons only? I suppose if a soldier was carrying a pzfaust only and it gets killed you could potentially pick it up fairly commonly.

I still believe soldiers do pick up ammo from same weapon, will need some tests.

And yeah I agree, scavenging is amazing, and for me is one of the pinnacles of the CC code.

#19: Re: Scavenging. Author: Dauphin,

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:27 pm
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A sniper with no more bullets change his weapon to use diiferent ammo

#20: Re: Scavenging. Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:45 pm
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Yeah, well, there aren't many scoped rifles available to scavenge in close combat battlefields, it is normal that they scavenge other weapons. But you're right it would be easier to test scavenging with snipers.

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too Far

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