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#1: What do close combat teams represent? Author: x54abc,

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:49 pm
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Forgive me, I am certain this has been discussed a 1000 times on here but can anyone help me? I can't seem to figure out what the close combat teams represent - sections(squads) or teams/groups?

It seems to me that they are either heavily depleted sections (presumably due to casualties) or inaccurately constructed teams.

For example - to my knowledge (which is limited) a German post 1943 squad should consist of a leader, a 6 man rifle group and a 2 man MG42 group. I assume in game this is represented by a 5 man gren team and a 4 man gren(mg) team? Indeed the automatic groups of all nations seem to be beefed up if this is the case.

Another one - US Airbourne section mid 1944 to 1945 seemed to have a leader, a 7 man rifle group and a 4 man automatic group. This appears to be represented in game with a 6 man rifle group(with BAR) and a 6 man infantry(mg) group.

The British sections seem to be the same - with a 5 man Bren group which should only be 3 (I think) and a small 5 man rifle team.

If the units do represent teams then this would also mean that the 3 platoons in the active roster are not in fact full platoons. A British platoon would require a total of at least 10 units according to my calculation (2 units for each of the 4 rifle sections + command + light mortar).

If on the other hand the in-game units represent depleted sections (i.e. actual numbers in the field taking into account casualties) then why are the rifle teams turning up without their automatic weapons? A depleted British section would surely hang on to it's Bren and not just chuck it because the gunner died, yet 50% of the British rifle units don't have a Bren.

I am not an expert and may well have missed something obvious, but can anyone explain this all to me?

#2: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:00 pm
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I think it represents a very depleted Company and as you say, the MG and rifle components have been separated since CC1 I believe. In CCMarines you get to use 3 of the current companies made of 15 units in the format that you see since CC4, so that would be 45 units on your side though you can only control 15.

The gameplay suffers with 10 man teams which is the limit in CC and was used in CC3 as well as some mods.

#3: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: x54abc,

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:54 pm
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Thanks for the comment.

So are you saying that you think each CC unit represents an entire squad/section's combat strength? I am trying to figure out what the base level units (ie the 4 to 6 man teams) are meant to represent.

If this is what you are saying then why do we have rifle sections without Brens/MG42s? Is this just an artificial construct to create some variation for the game?

#4: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:40 pm
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I'm saying that squads are separated in two entities in most cases, the rifle men and the SAW/LMG group of the squad, they are understrength because of gameplay, 7 men per squad is the most manageable I guess, not to mention that the game screens are fitted for 7 men max despite the possibility of having up to 10 men per squad.

It would be nice to have complete squads and be able to separate them into Rifle/MG teams while in-game, something for the future maybe. More than 15 units would be welcome too.

#5: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: x54abc,

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:14 pm
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But if a section is represented by 2 units/teams as you say (which I agree is probably the case) then there are actually too many, not too few, men in the automatic groups by late WW2 standards as far as I can tell.

As I said above a german rifle squad should be a 7 man team and a 2 man lmg team (in game it is a 5 man team + 4 man team).

Likewise US Airbourne squad should be an 8 man team and a 4 man mg team (in game it is 2 x 6 man teams).

I think the British section should be a 7 man team + 3 man Bren team (I think in game this is 2 x 5 man teams).

You are right though, it does result in slightly larger rifle teams but I think the historical team sizes are all manageable in CC. The largest is an eight man team which is a little big but there are many 7 man teams in CC I recall.

Maybe you are right though. Maybe they just wanted to split a section down the middle to create 2 equally sized teams as they felt it would be more ballanced for gameplay. Still seems a pity that it isn't historically accurate (someone will prove me wrong here I'm sure!).

#6: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:58 pm
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I suggest that you check out Dima's GJS TRSM for more historically correct teams.
"Vanilla CC" teams (incl. the rereleases) are always...umm...a bit odd.

#7: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: diggin.robat, Location: Land of the krauts

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:18 am
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Maybe our years long rambling will be heard and a future, totally new concepted, CC will be more flexible with the amount of units to play with. Flexible would be to have, say 200 single infanrtrymen as a maximum for each side for the game engine divded into squads of any size, according to historical outlines and BGs (in game) would cover roughly an infantry company of WWII. The entire BG forcepool would be a battalion for instance. That would be welcomed by modders, I´m sure.

The 10men units in CC3 were mostly used by the russioan side to dispaly the "human wave tactics". Rolling Eyes

diggin

#8: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: x54abc,

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:33 am
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A user friendly modding interface, within the scenario editor, in which you can easily mod team and BG composition would solve all problems in my opinion. A few clicks and you could create anything you wanted be it historical teams or game-friendly teams. I have a dream...

#9: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: vonB,

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:50 am
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Quote:

I have a dream...

Join the club...

#10: Re: What do close combat teams represent? Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:03 pm
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vonB wrote (View Post):

Join the club...

Exactly!

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