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A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA

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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem

#1: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:32 am
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i have heard in many places that CC players belives LSA to be extremly unbalanced, that the german player has NO CHANCE of stopping XXX Corps as there are no strong german forces in and between Eindhoven and Nijmegen.

I agree that the german BGs are very week and your only chance is to cut the corridor with 107thPz Bde.
So I have been thinking a bit and started to gather information on the german BGs, to try to find out what they had in manpower, AT guns, FlaK and so on and I found some rather interesting facts.

With this I have started to make the german BGs more stronger by adding the missing"hardware" into their Force pool, this also results in more squad slots and more points for "buying" troops.

When i have finished revising all BGs I will try make squads on both the allied and axis sides stronger/larger to make them more historical accurate.
Also a few vehicles will be added for the germans as well for more historical accuracy.

My only hope is that I don't overpower the germans to much!

My first revised BG: Kampfgruppe Becker (remnants of 3rd Fallschirmjäger Div.)

3rd Fj had about 600 men in september, with an reinforced Anti-tank unit and support from FJ StuG brigade 12.
NOTE: KGr Becker misses 1xFJ StuH42 (since there is no FJ StuH42 ingame and I don't know how to make one at the moment)

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#2: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: Sapa,

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:44 pm
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Thanks for you effort! Very Happy

#3: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:48 am
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Sound good karlmortar....

Based on 4 StuG and 1 StuH42 you are creating 1 CC tank per 1 real tank. This is fine for the Germans since they were actually really weak at this time but then don't you have to do the same for the Allies? If you do then the Allies will be very tank/vehicle heavy. Example; the Gaurds Armoured Division (which is only 1 of the multiple divisions that made up XXX Corps) had 14,964 men and 343 tanks....

Usually actual quantities are divided by something when creating a BG in CC (example; 6 or 5 for large quantities and 3 or 2 small quantities, that is what I did for Meuse mod as I wanted some of the rare/unique tanks/vehicles to still be in the game).

#4: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:58 am
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You have of course right, Tejszd. But fortunatly form me, allied BGs here are represented as Regiments/Brigades which makes things easier ( I HOPE!). I will only give them the tanks and men they are supoused to have. The thing is I have to find out how much they had! Shocked

Any information would be much appreciated! Wink

Giving 40+ Sherman Vs to for a armourded brigade sounds ok to me, since Shermans just are paper tanks anyways, but coming to think of it I wonder if a player is EVER going to be using up all those shermans as they will probably NEVER get enough points to buy that much. But I'm going to try it, and if it doesn't cut or just isn't needed i'll just remove 1/4 or so .

Also for som balance german Bgs are given more AT power they actually had but didn't in LSA. The most powerful german BG right now is the 107th Pz Bde with almost 40x Panther VG tanks. Do not fear! Since Panthers have crappy armour in LSA and you only have enough points to take about 5 tanks into battle: there will be no unstoppable Panther rush with 15 tanks.
With regular Sherman Vs I have been able to destroy mutliple Panther tanks with relative ease,of course things are a bit differnt playing H2H.

Enough spouting bolloxs, here is the latest progress:

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#5: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:08 am
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Hmm..forgot to explain the Bgs a bit... Embarassed

107th pz Bde, just check their TOE/OOB at axishistory factbook.
Unfortunatly the game lacks the Möbelwagen and Sd.Kfz 251/21 needed to fulfill the brigade's flak strenght.
The Möbelwagen is a FlaKpz IV with a open,boxy superstructure armed with a single 3,7cm FlaK 43, these were assigned to the pz-coys as moblie flak for the Panthers.
The Sd.Kfz 251/21 is a regular Hanomag HT with a trippel barreled 1,5cm FlaK gun, these were to protect the brigade HQ and panzergrenadier coys.

As the same with the FJ StuH42, these will be added when I figure out how to make my own vehicles.

Any help here as well is truly welcomed! Very Happy

KGr Walther
A mix of FJ troops from FJ Rgt. von Hoffmann and SS troops from SS KGr Heinke and a few panthers from a Hermann Göring tank training coy (or possibly from 107th Pz, havn't found any information yet).

Added a few extra SS pioneers and flamethrowers due to an accompanying SS Pioneer coy in 'SS Heinke'
SS Jagdpz IV from the 10.SS Tank hunter unit from 10.SS Pz-Div.

#6: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:47 am
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There's 2 things to consider. Everyone is still woried about fp's, but it's not CC5 anymore or TLD where yo could fill all 15 units everytime. It's more to do with the points available. I dont think CC2 or 3 gave you forcepools, only the unit and the point cost. As karl said, 40+ Shermans means nothing if you have no points and I played most of the GC with available units but no points Embarassed

#7: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:20 am
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Quote:

As karl said, 40+ Shermans means nothing if you have no points and I played most of the GC with available units but no points

Yeah, I know what you are syaing. With the Irish guard I lost 2 tanks very earliy in the game and I couldn't replace them until a few day later.
So maybe 40+ Shermans wouldn't matter much, but it would be nice to look at your FP and feel the comfortable warmth of knowing that you have a huge amount of armour to back you up (although you can't get them! ) Wink

I have started to check the number of german troops available for each BG and I have had to raise the number for a few of them, in most cases there is enough troops to represent the historical counterpart.

#8: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: Ivan_Zaitzev,

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:03 am
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karlmortar wrote (View Post):

Quote:

As karl said, 40+ Shermans means nothing if you have no points and I played most of the GC with available units but no points

So which is the difference with vanilla LSA?
And, are you sure 33 Panthers is historical?

#9: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:12 am
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The differance is going to concern about historical aspects. More troops for german bgs (if their manpower dosn't fit with their real counterparts), add more or new vehicles that were present and so on. The same will go for allied BGs.
Also make squads on both sides more realistic.

33 Panthers and 3xCommand Panthers are correct, at least according to his: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=512
And since the brigade was recently formed, OMG was it's first combat operation.
The only thing that it is missing is it's Bergepanther recovery tanks.

#10: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:16 am
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Forgot to say that it is 12 panthers/company (3 coys) and 1 of the panthers is the company commander's =1 Befhel panther

#11: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:28 pm
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I like the way this is heading...looking forward to see the final product!

#12: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:28 am
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Good point on the points.

Definitely will be nice as the Germans to have a bit more kick when trying to defend....

#13: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:39 am
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Quote:

Good point on the points.

Had that one coming, didn't I ? Wink

Well, back to the 107th Panzer Brigade.

I spent a couple of hours fiddiling around and came up with this:

It's not the most beutyful CC has seen, but It will do for now. If you look very carefuly you should be able to see the Möbelwagens flak gun (which is a Flak 37 insteed of a FlaK 43, since there are no FlaK 43 ingame) and you should also notice that the Drilling's turret is totaly missplaced. I don't know to correct that, sadly. The Drilling is also incorretly equipped with a Quad 20mm (borrowed from Flakvierling) since there are no trippel 1.5cm flak guns in LSA. These things will be corrected in the future.

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107 Flak.JPG

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#14: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:00 pm
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Heya karlmortar,

I will gather the info that I have on the OMG and will post them here in following days.

#15: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:21 am
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I bow before your generosity, kawasaky Very Happy

#16: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:26 am
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Muhahahah! Finally, I have sorted out the Drilling mess and it now works perfectly (except the game still naggs about the sixth crew member for some reason...) and it also has a trippel 1.5cm Mg 152 insteed of a quad 20mm. The möbelwagen has a FlaK 43 now Smile

A part from graphical corrections on the Drilling ingame, I have also "tweeked" the Forcepool pics and the ingame squad pics.
Enjoy Wink

Now these guys done, I can move over to fix BGs again Smile

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#17: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:56 am
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karlmortar wrote (View Post):

I bow before your generosity, kawasaky Very Happy

Don't! No dawg barks bcs of village, but for itself! I wanna playable LSA too Wink

#18: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:45 am
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Quote:

I wanna playable LSA too

Well who doesn't? Wink

I have "upgaded my mod" to the newest Beta patch.

#19: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: papa_whisky,

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:29 pm
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What is a 'Drilling'?

#20: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA Author: karlmortar, Location: Falköping,Sweden

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:18 pm
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The Drilling is a tripel mounted 1.5cm MG 151 (Wich were usualy found on Luftwaffe aircrafts) fitted on a Sd.Kfz 251, which became Sd.Kfz 251/21.

Drilling in english means: triplet

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