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#21: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: LostTemple,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:49 am
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Nah...LSA and TLD are crap. Seriously, why would anyone pay $40 for a clone of Close Combat 5, which you can get for free off the internet???

makes no sense, unless you enjoy throwing money away and giving it to a scamming company(Matrix Games).

stick to CC5. Still is, and always will be the best.

:)

#22: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:43 am
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Quote:

This is the first version that doesnt make a battlegroup completely disband in every case off the map

WaR was the first ;0)

#23: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 am
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WillKnott wrote (View Post):

I like LSA. I especially like one of the campaign enhancements. This is the first version that doesnt make a battlegroup completely disband in every case off the map if they lose the battle. In LSA, if you (or the computer AI) still control an exit VL that leads to a freindly map and force morale drops and the battle ends, your battlegroup will retreat back to that map instead of disappearing to the rear.

I always hated the way CC4 and CC5 would remove a battlegroup full of men off the map if for the misfortune of one bad battle. This often left nothing to stop the enemy for several rounds. Now, if your battlegroup retreats to next map, you can 'live to fight another day'. Makes playing the PC a little more tolerable too. Gone are the days of CC5 where you could clean out the first few maps in the campaign vs the computer and walk unopposed all the way in.

I also like the merging of BG's Nice way to get 2 weaker battlegroups into one stronger battlegroup to keep the fight going.

If the modding eventually starts to use LSA, I think some really nice GC's can be made with these improvements. GJS and Stalingrad would be some good ones to port up to the new engine.

I do agree that the retreating BGs must be an much needed advantage for the poor CC AI..

Playing H2H though, I can’t see any advantage in letting the beaten BG retreat.
If you let the enemy totally/moraly defeat your “company” that represent the battalion in game, then that has serious consequences for the rest of the battalion.
The enemy will take advantage of that as they broken the line. They will devastate the BG's support units and possible attack the rest of the BG's companies from many sides and cut them of supply.
So being totally/moraly defeated on a map SHOULD have serious consequences for the BG. Being kicked of the map and returnd to depot is the least I expect.

Strategic:
Stretching the line so thin that you don’t have any BG behind the fighting BG should make you worried, just as in real life. That’s a strategic decision (or gamble) that has opportunity’s and risks, and them risk punishment is represented in CC5 by total disband of the BG. Knowledge of this should make you fight differently, and maybe even redraw week units to maps that are easy defended. This adds to the overall CC game.
If I understand you right, in the new CC the BG just retreats one map and are left unharmed, and are then ready to fight the next round. From my argument a bow, I don’t agree that’s realistic or even a good game feature.

In CC4-5 the BG is through back to depot, and emerges the next morning. That’s more realistic as it more represent being run over, and having to redraw disorganized and after being attacked from all sides.

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

#24: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:00 am
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Quote:

he BG just retreats one map and are left unharmed, and are then ready to fight the next round

You don't understand correctly... come back when you do.

#25: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:21 am
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

You don't understand correctly... come back when you do.

Yeh,
So doesnt it or does it not work like WillKnott describe it??:
Qoute:
I especially like one of the campaign enhancements. This is the first version that doesnt make a battlegroup completely disband in every case off the map if they lose the battle. In LSA, if you (or the computer AI) still control an exit VL that leads to a freindly map and force morale drops and the battle ends, your battlegroup will retreat back to that map instead of disappearing to the rear. /End Qoute...

Its a simple question, does it or doesnt it work like that??

#26: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:01 pm
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LostTemple wrote (View Post):

Seriously, why would anyone pay $40 for a clone of Close Combat 5, which you can get for free off the internet???

To me this says everything about you and your type. You'd rather steal someone's hard work off the internet and then bitch. You seem to think you are the town-cryer alerting everyone to danger when in reality it's your type of people that are the real danger.

You're nothing better than an internet pirate and troll. How about instead of posting crap over and over again you shut up and do something?

But over and over and over again you need to run your mouth. If what you are saying is true then you shouldn't need to say a damn thing since wouldn't the products die on their own if they are such crap?

#27: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:30 pm
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Dundradal wrote (View Post):

If what you are saying is true then you shouldn't need to say a damn thing since wouldn't the products die on their own if they are such crap?

But, mmm, this is exactly what many of us fear…. You just don’t get it, do you..

And your solution to this is - silence and blind support - of the dev team, whatever they do, or dont..

Rolling Eyes

#28: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: WillKnott,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:26 pm
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

WaR was the first ;0)

Was this updated in a patch? I have WAR too but I recall the BG's disappearing. But I could have remembered it wrong. Ill patch it and check, if thats the case Ill consider it good news.

#29: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:32 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Dundradal wrote (View Post):

If what you are saying is true then you shouldn't need to say a damn thing since wouldn't the products die on their own if they are such crap?

Silence and blind support? Your out there pirating a game you want to see improvements too and then bitch at why you aren't seeing the improvements you want?

if you've noticed I've made repeated criticisms about the new games, however I don't run into the theater and yell the sky is falling every chance I get. I would call that neither silence nor blind support.

The newer games have issues, yes. My repeated point has been to state that Matrix is not EA with limitless money and manpower pools. That's something that no matter how many times it gets said people can't wrap their heads around. The thing is you and Lost have to act like cheerleaders in order to rile up the crowd and write moronic posts that appeal to the 4 people you are writing to. That isn't blind support. Blind support would be "BUY THESE GAMES!" If you've noticed I've never said that everyone should buy them. I expressed my support for their progress and hope the best and for that I get singled out as a person who silently and blindly supports taking your money.

If LSA, TLD, WAR, and COI are crap than shouldn't that cause them to fall off the radar because they are poor products. You say that's what you are afraid of, but that's exactly what you are trying to do through these idiotic posts. I'm pretty sure I get it very well. I'm just not sure what "it" you are chasing after.

#30: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:43 pm
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If someone never planned on buying a product and instead only planned to steal it, is there any lost revenue? If Matrix were a brick and mortar store and someone stole LSA off the shelf, then I can see the lost revenue. Otherwise, I doubt anyone's losing (very much) money.

#31: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:03 pm
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quote "Dundradal"; If LSA, TLD, WAR, and COI are crap than shouldn't that cause them to fall off the radar because they are poor products. You say that's what you are afraid of, but that's exactly what you are trying to do through these idiotic posts. I'm pretty sure I get it very well. I'm just not sure what "it" you are chasing after./quote

Yer logic is a bit wrapped there.

The new games are of poor quality on there own merits.

:roll:

I have many times in grate detail addressed the quality issues in the new CC-games.

The current developer is unable even to replicate the quality of the original Atomic games.
With that low standard, how can they ever take CC to the next level. And it’s not about money, or resources… It don’t take any longer or cost more money to get codes right if they know what they are doing.
It’s a matter of competence.. If one is silent about this, or blindly supporting the developer, how we ever expect to get a better CC..

If u wants to I can post some links to the quality issue post I made.

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

#32: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:04 pm
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LSA is it worth purchasing?

Definately, this is a very nice game and if you are a newcomer here then by all means go out and buy it.

Its really the best re-make so far, and I can see that in the future there's a strong possibility of people being able to make some great mods with it.

Its no perfect by any means, I have found very little in life that is, your paying what $40 for it? so don't expect it to fulfill your every dream....but whats $40 nowdays? it costs me that to fill up the car.

There are people commenting on here that say its not worth it, well everyone to his own view, however all I can say to newcomers is that when you read a post with a title of this kind, by all means take on board the views of all posters, but look at the posters profile too at the same time. There you will find out how long they have been a member, which I always use to judge just how much experience of CC type games they have.

I myself have been playing the CC series for a number of years, and been a member of this site for almost as long.

I can remember that when CC5 first came out, the same sort of views were expressed on other forums about how it would NEVER replace CC3 as the most popular version of the game....however look at today, CC5 is the most popular version played online...I wonder what tomorrow will bring? Smile

Cheers
Ronson

#33: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: WillKnott,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:43 pm
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WAR does not retreat like LSA does.....

WAR01.png

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I setup a test with War.

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WAR02.png

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German battle group invades

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War03.png

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setup for failure

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War04.png

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Notice the Germans hold 2 vl's when they lose the battle

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War05.png

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They are forced to disband and teleport to the var rear to a supply depot.

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War06.png

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Allies bypass 3 maps and get to a 4th before meeting resistance again.

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#34: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: WillKnott,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:47 pm
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Now for LSA and how it retreats....

LSA01.png

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Setup similar test as the WAR test

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LSA02.png

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GE BG moves in

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LSA03.png

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No chance to survive

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LSA04.png

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Battle is lost, but GE holds exit vl

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LSA05.png

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No DISBAND, No teleport back to rear, only a retreat to next map.

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LSA06.png

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And the result, better campaigning in my opinion

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#35: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:47 pm
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Correct me if I'm wrong. By default this is how WaR comes -no retreat. You have to modify the campaign text to turn on this feature.

#36: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: WillKnott,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:51 pm
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So one has to hack into the file to turn this feature on? Never knew that. please elaborate on "modifying campaign text" I would like to know.

#37: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:54 pm
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No not hacking at all. Its called campaign.txt located in the folder C:\Matrix Games\Close Combat Wacht am Rhein\Data\Base. I just checked mine and retreat is enabled, I don't know if I changed it or not, I installed it quite awhile ago.

Look for this line...

#########################################################################
# Misc. options / features
#########################################################################
# Recycle Disbanded BGs (0 = Never come back, 1 = Return next day)
1
# Locked BGs (0 = unlocked, 1 = locked) Locked = player can not choose teams
0
# BGs retreat on rout (0 = disband on rout, 1 = retreat on rout)
1

#38: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: WillKnott,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:59 pm
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here is mine, exactly as it was during the test....Perhaps this isnt working.

Im on an older patch at the moment, ill have to patch it later and see if it works after that.

4.50.07b Is my current patch.
#########################################################################
# Misc. options / features
#########################################################################
# Recycle Disbanded BGs (0 = Never come back, 1 = Return next day)
1
# Locked BGs (0 = unlocked, 1 = locked) Locked = player can not choose teams
0
# BGs retreat on rout (0 = disband on rout, 1 = retreat on rout)
1
==========
Additional Note, TLD has same line but its set to 0. Ill have to change that and see if I get better results. Is this in the original CC5? disband always made play camps a pain.
=========
Checking some other files....
TLD has setting but its default at 0
TLD - under the original settings has setting too but its default is 1 (have to check that if it works)
WAR - has settings set to default at 1 (retreat no route) but it does not work for me.
LSA - has settings set to default at 1 and does work for me.

#39: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: Dundradal,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:39 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

The current developer is unable even to replicate the quality of the original Atomic games.

What do you mean by quality? All the bugs the games shipped with or were discovered later? Or the mistakes they never fixed?

Quote:

With that low standard, how can they ever take CC to the next level. And it’s not about money, or resources… It don’t take any longer or cost more money to get codes right if they know what they are doing.
It’s a matter of competence.. If one is silent about this, or blindly supporting the developer, how we ever expect to get a better CC..

If u wants to I can post some links to the quality issue post I made.

If you have all these abilities then do it yourself. All I hear from here is how no one at matrix knows what they are doing...well if you seem to know what to do then get off the pot and do it!

If there was any sense left one would think that people like you would then want to help the devs in creating a game of the highest quality. Instead there are a few who want to bash anything coming out and give nothing in return (either money or skill sets).

I guess just keep pirating CC5 and all your problems will be for naught. If you don't care about the new releases then ignore them entirely. Instead there is an active campaign to slander them...to what ends only you guys know.

I enjoy the new games. They have issues, sure, but I'll continue to enjoy playing them for years to come.

#40: Re: CC: LSA - is it worth purchasing Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:52 pm
—
quote Dundradal::
What do you mean by quality? All the bugs the games shipped with or were discovered later? Or the mistakes they never fixed?
If you have all these abilities then do it yourself. All I hear from here is how no one at matrix knows what they are doing...well if you seem to know what to do then get off the pot and do it
If there was any sense left one would think that people like you would then want to help the devs in creating a game of the highest quality.!Instead there are a few who want to bash anything coming out and give nothing in return
/end Qoute

Well, as your asking for it:

CCMT is still today sold with the issues I bring up here:
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4904&start=0

Notice how we get promises after promises from the developer saying that they will fix em issues. I can post some more links to issues in CCMT, but u can fined em your self. Still today, 4-5? years later CCMT is sold in the same state.

WaR:
Here is an interesting thing, you see the dev team never understood how to code houses in CC.
PPL complained about poor LOS in WaR, yet 3 patches down the road they still had not figured it out....
Here in this link I tried to help em, I should have known what often happen to the messenger..
U recognise the developers names there, southernland, shrecky, QM, TJ, and oddball..
In the end they sort of got it, atleast a part of it...

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6539&start=0

Maybe some day I do a "similar" post about codes in some of the TLD maps..

Rolling Eyes

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

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