Strat Map for Battle of Berlin
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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Battle of Berlin
#1: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: JaguarWolf,  PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:22 am
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When I load the historical campaign in the scenario editor and click on the dates to get a feel for what divisions/groups will be arriving at specific dates, the part that confuses me is that the map seems to oriented incorrectly.

For example, in history, the Soviets are attacking from the east, but the strat map has them attacking from the south?  Everything seems to be weird.  

Anyone else get this?  How to correct this problem? It gets confusing easily.

thanks!
#2: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: Sapa,  PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:07 am
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Konev arrived from the South Wink
#3: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: Sapa,  PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:38 pm
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battle map

berlin.jpg
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berlin.jpg
#4: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: JaguarWolf,  PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:29 pm
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thanks Sapa,

But why are the maps so different?

In the strategic map, when I make my movements, the Soviets are coming from the east.  But in scenario editor, they are coming from the south?

It is really confusing.  I want to be move my units to prepare for future attacks.  But I keep getting confused where to move them because both maps are different/confusing.

thanks
#5: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: dj,  PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:10 pm
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Yes because Stalin wanted a competition between Zhukov and Konev - which led to huge Soviet losses in the reckless race between them.

I would like to see this great mod updated for LSA or TLD?  Not sure if Battle of Berlin v 2 still possible?
#6: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: Dundradal,  PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:34 am
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I love this mod. I've got a GC going right now with the vetmod installed. All around great fun!

An upgrade to TLD would be great!
#7: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:36 pm
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Quote:
Yes because Stalin wanted a competition between Zhukov and Konev - which led to huge Soviet losses in the reckless race between them.

really? could you please tell more about that?
#8: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: dj,  PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:41 pm
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Sarcasm - I am not giving you Western Imperialist propaganda.   Rolling Eyes

According your own people - Grigoriy Krivosheev - "...on declassified archival data, Soviet forces sustained 81,116 dead which included the Battles of Seelow Heights and the Halbe - 280,251 were reported wounded or sick during the operational period - with losses of 2,000 armored vehicles, though the number of irrevocable losses (write-offs) is not known."

Grigoriy I believe reviewed this data in 1972 - still under political pressure due to "Cold War" propaganda to conceal or at least minimize estimates.  So even these losses are extremely conservative I'm sure.  As far as the rivalry and competition - I did not fabricate or create my own facts.  This information is widely reported at least by Western historians - that Stalin wanted to give the prize of first commander to enter the heart of Berlin as competition between Konev and Zhukov.

Again we probably will never know the real #'s because both sides exaggerated casualty statistics for propaganda purposes.   Same argument yet again with Stalingrad casualties.
#9: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:14 pm
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Link

Gitler Kaput!
#10: Re: Strat Map for Battle of Berlin Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:35 pm
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Quote:
Sarcasm - I am not giving you Western Imperialist propaganda.

i'd say you are giving us the Western common knowledge Wink.

Quote:
According your own people - Grigoriy Krivosheev - "...on declassified archival data, Soviet forces sustained 81,116 dead which included the Battles of Seelow Heights and the Halbe - 280,251 were reported wounded or sick during the operational period - with losses of 2,000 armored vehicles,

yes, but do you know that the units lost 4.1% of total number of men as irretrivable losses?
Is 4.1% irretrivable losses high or not percentage for taking defended ("till the last man") enemy capital?
Check the casualties of the German army during op.Typhoon Smile.

Quote:
though the number of irrevocable losses (write-offs) is not known."

it is known.

Quote:
This information is widely reported at least by Western historians - that Stalin wanted to give the prize of first commander to enter the heart of Berlin as competition between Konev and Zhukov.

Ok, i have an order for operation before my eyes and i can't see anything regarding Konev taking Berlin.
Please prove that Stalin wanted a competition.

Quote:
Again we probably will never know the real #'s because both sides exaggerated casualty statistics for propaganda purposes.

Probably you are talking about the German losses as no document remained telling us how many they lost in those days.
The Soviet losses are well documented.

Quote:
Same argument yet again with Stalingrad casualties.

Do you have other numbers of RA losses around Stal than the numbers i posted back then at CSO?
Close Combat Series -> CC5 Battle of Berlin


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