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Close Combat Series -> The Mess

#101: Re: Disenchanted Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:19 am
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Fact is if Close Combat was a restaurant in your home town with this type of service................you would NEVER go back again

#102: Re: Disenchanted Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:25 am
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And what really pisses me off is that NOBODY FUCKING gets that.

#103: Re: Disenchanted Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:38 am
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My post over at Steam with the errors in GWTC was removed for being repetitive and yet their is numerous threads about game play and the price.

And after THREE months they have no answer for the errors in the game I posted.

I will tell you whats going to happen.

They will NOT FIX them
THEY HAVE NO IDEA ON HOW TO FIX THEM.

THEY will move on to the next game

And you people who are stupid enough to buy it will be posting the same thing WE have done for years since WAR

#104: Re: Disenchanted Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:49 am
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Look at the posts that were made almost four years ago in just this thread alone. It says a lot.

It's groundhog's day every release with these type of people. I say these type of people because it's technically been three different "developers" (CSO, Strategy 3 Tactics, Slitherine). And yet all three groups seem to treat those of us in the community the same way. It's like they are trained to be that way. Instead of actually putting work into the game to make it what it can be, they go out of their way to deflect ALL criticism and constructive comments. All the while, they haven't actually improved this game.

The worst part of it is, these "development" teams (CSO, Strategy 3 Tactics, Slitherine) are former CC modders/mapmakers--which is also the reason that they are unable to actually develop a proper game.

Many of us argued that those re-releases would hurt the game, and what has happened since the release of Cross of Iron? The community has slowly died, and it's on it's last legs. Remember when the CSO "developers" and affiliated cronies were flaming and belittling those of us voicing our legitimate concerns before and after the Cross of Iron release? Look where all those weasels are now, no where to be seen.

These guys we have now have already went out of there way to point out that The Bloody First will basically be a shell of a game, without features some of us consider core to the game. I can see their recipe already, add one stupid feature every game (for instance maybe the groundbreaking, brand new idea of an integrated matchmaking forum), make seemingly random change to a fundamental feature people like, charge $50, and then rinse and repeat!

#105: Re: Disenchanted Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:17 am
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LostTemple wrote (View Post):

Matrix Games: Hey guys, our last two rereleases are total junk. Should we patch and fix them?
Matrix Dev team: Nah...but why don't we make a new intro instead?
Matrix Games: Sounds good. You can proceed.

This gaming moment of idiocy and fraud was brought to you by the thieving people at Matrix Games.

LOL, that's pretty funny shit. Where is LostTemple? Didn't he make that hilarious mock Close Combat advertisement?

#106: Re: Disenchanted Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:31 am
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Lol, LostTemple made this. The laughs I'm getting from it help deal with the pain and frustration.

ke66pv.jpg

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#107: Re: Disenchanted Author: dj,

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:01 am
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Spot on. The kicker is that ironically all of the re-releases regresssed from the original games. LSA in particular was way worse than CC2 produced many years beforehand. The only improvement is with graphics marginally, that's not saying much since the re-leases were produced many years after the originals and technology has advanced since that time. IMO everything started going downhill with CC5 then re-releases after that.

#108: Re: Disenchanted Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:19 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Spot on. The kicker is that ironically all of the re-releases regresssed from the original games. LSA in particular was way worse than CC2 produced many years beforehand. The only improvement is with graphics marginally, that's not saying much since the re-leases were produced many years after the originals and technology has advanced since that time. IMO everything started going downhill with CC5 then re-releases after that.

Agree on LSA. The strat map in particular is awful and difficult to read. Some of the finer aspects/improvements, such as 2 units per map were not perfected until PITF and in LSA are a hindrance in LSA. It's the weakest of the CC titles.

Remember also that when both CC4, then CC5 came out? old die hard CC players were saying the same negative things with regards to how CC4 and CC5 being weak also and having numerous faults. How the F/pool system was weak in CC5 and many were using nothing but the maps from both CC4/5. Time changed much, perhaps it will again on the outlook of the newer CC's also again.

#109: Re: Disenchanted Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:33 am
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Right, but when I got WAR, I knew I would be able to use it for Classic CC4 and CC5.

Way back when COI was being determined, I know many argued for just patching the games, so they could operate with XP. I suppose that also meant fixing obvious and identified bugs.

But, they [Matrix] went way beyond, like including more maps.

Just a few weeks ago, I kicked up a Classic CC4 campaign. A very rare occurrence for moi.

CC4 maps that were modified (usually enlarged) in WAR, I also use with WW2 Tactics (CC2 Redux mod).

The rest of WAR, I really don't use at all.

In all probability my CC journey is over, except the stuff I have accumulated (CCMT, WAR) still work on my system.

#110: Re: Disenchanted Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:45 am
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I am also very irritated about the general approach of Matrix games, especially their standard behavior of not considering the veteran community's suggestions. I have criticised their arbitrary list of changes (improvements AND dis-improvements (!)) both here, on the Matrix forums as well as on Steam. I think pointing out our concerns additionally on the Steam GtC forums is good, since it also draws other people's attention and they may as well come up with their own criticisms, in addition to building pressure on the developers to fix the issues. After all, Matrix keeps on saying us "you are not the majority, the majority is happy with the game as it is". (Yeah, great argumentation!) So the more people voice out their unhappiness, the better I guess.

Other than those, Gateway to Caen does not deserve its 40$ price tag as all the other re-releases. However, it is probably the best of the re-releases so far. Apart from the somewhat annoying "girly soldiers" thing (which, is not THAT bad imo) and the pronounced inaccuracy of the guns, it is quite nice. I am not sure if the multiplayer crashes have been fixed with the latest patch, but other than that all it needs is a fine mod. Here, hopefully the historical realism mod of Dima will appear soon!

#111: Re: Disenchanted Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:15 am
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kerrching, still racking up the $$ with each sale here, so no need to fix anything.

I think hype is slowly building for an all new wizz bang 3D release that should see my bank account swell again.

oh, hasn't everything been fixed yet... there was a good solid three page list to work on last time I looked..

Is Dima going to charge for his mod like Gateway to Caen?

#112: Re: Disenchanted Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:26 am
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I liked the F/Pool system pretty much from the outset of CC5 over the style CC3 had and thought it was a vast improvement, getting rid of the forced resting of individual troops that both CC3/COI have, along with restrictive purchase points. CC4 was getting that way and the maps were sweet also.

Quote:

In all probability my CC journey is over, except the stuff I have accumulated (CCMT, WAR) still work on my system.

Can see that coming also. 3d? Why left CC years ago and went to Combat Mission. If wanted to play a 3d game again?? I'd head back, but I don't.. Matrix, to me is making a mistake.

Quote:

kerrching, still racking up the $$ with each sale here, so no need to fix anything.

Climb out of your foxhole for a bit and take a shot? Surprised

#113: Re: Disenchanted Author: mooxe,

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:57 pm
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Sometime I really feel like just pressing the delete key on CCS because of my disappointment. I think that having CCS around gives them a reason to make new rereleases, and new people see this community and it may positively influence them to buy a copy. I can't recommend that last two versions to anyone, I honestly can't see why people would play them and part of me feels like this site shouldn't promote them. These rereleases have not brought life to the community, they have only just sustained it on life support.

#114: Re: Disenchanted Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:05 pm
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Well, I can assure you that CCS was a positive influence in everyone's CC experience.

But, sometimes the discussions here would just bring out the worst in everyone.

Over the years, I know I posted about the public testing, and Matrix running off to the next revenue stream before anything was actually finished. My posts made no difference. There was always someone around to say I was full of it.

But the best thing now, is I really don't care anymore. It's just a game.

#115: Re: Disenchanted Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:10 pm
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Like most people here, I think we expected each new release to add to and improve upon the previous one. Instead we got changes that werent asked for and no fixes for the faults that were asked for.

I understand the business decisions to make "sellable" changes, but some of these changes have created unintended negatives in the game which Matrix will not pay to undo or repair.

Examples are the crawiling soldiers. They were changed to fix the crawl of death, but then created "girly soldiers" (actually a poor term - men will crawl for cover when shot at as well!) "Solved" by tweaking the code.

Also the scale problems creates by PitF. When the vehicles are made larger, the bridges bacame too small for the pathing algorithm. The solution would be to redraw and re-code all the maps, but no - too expensive. Again "Solved" by tweaking the code.

I am dissapointed because I want CC5 fixed and added to with ALL the features available. Turn them off in the background if they are not needed in the version. (LSA bridges blowing) There is no technical reason I can see to remove the feature from the code.

All these are common to any project. I work with engineers every day who really want to set a good framework for their projects, but this takes a lot of time and prep. There are always managers who want to start building before the prep work is done. This ALWAYS causes problems later. Projects have an inertia to them which is difficult to fight, deadlines, budgets etc get in the way. Sometimes "good" ideas dont work out and people wont admit the're wrong and just scrap them. All normal stuff in a project. I can see how it happens, and sympathise with the dev's but it's still not right.

Matrix wont properly plan and run CC projects, and I think this is a deliberate decision by their managers.

#116: Re: Disenchanted Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:14 am
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Troger wrote (View Post):

Lol, LostTemple made this. The laughs I'm getting from it help deal with the pain and frustration.

The granddaddy of them all from igotmilk, he made this one either in 2006 or prior,,,,

#117: Re: Disenchanted Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:39 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

Sometime I really feel like just pressing the delete key on CCS because of my disappointment. I think that having CCS around gives them a reason to make new rereleases, and new people see this community and it may positively influence them to buy a copy. I can't recommend that last two versions to anyone, I honestly can't see why people would play them and part of me feels like this site shouldn't promote them. These rereleases have not brought life to the community, they have only just sustained it on life support.

I haven't played the last two releases so can't comment.. was disillusioned long ago.

Matrix asked if we wanted to create a MOD for release and everyone at the time said no thanks... looks like Cathartes took up the offer though it should have been a freeby

#118: Re: Disenchanted Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:49 am
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pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

I am dissapointed because I want CC5 fixed and added to with ALL the features available. Turn them off in the background if they are not needed in the version. (LSA bridges blowing) There is no technical reason I can see to remove the feature from the code.

Matrix wont properly plan and run CC projects, and I think this is a deliberate decision by their managers.

That was indeed the plan and why in WaR the features had switches... what happened after i became sidelined is anybody's guess.

Also planned was for new releases to become all part of one game.. you just chose which scenario wou wanted to play, War, tLD,ABTF etc... this was the genesis of thew /D switch.

Theoretically if you had purchased an update you could then tweak your own game by turning various features on and off.. eg adding night turns and bridge blowing to WaR, parachute drops to tLD etc ... following this path any bugs would be eventually eradicated with each new release as it was a development of the one set ogf code.

Unfortunately this did not happen

#119: Re: Disenchanted Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:56 am
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Good to see you still checking in Shrecken!

I will not be doing any further testing of new releases as I'm too frustrated with some of the decisions and with the lack of finish/quality.
- why are features removed? Or if unused but present not tested leaving mod makers frustrated
- why are known bugs left not fixed?

Example for TLD: Tanks can not drive over the Pegasus bridge in TLD since the path finding update in 2011 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2931150

Edit: list outstanding TLD bugs http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3387394

#120: Re: Disenchanted Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:02 am
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Tejszd wrote (View Post):

Example for TLD: Tanks can not drive over the Pegasus bridge in TLD since the path finding update in 2011 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2931150

uuugh!

Bridge crossing was high on the agenda when I was last part of the team and quite a lot of work and testing was being put in to a fix.

Is Jim still on the team? ... he was against any fixes

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

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