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#1: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:16 am
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Is it just me, or are troops harder to spot in TLD than in CC5, especially when they're hidden or in cover?

This tends to give the defending side an even bigger advantage than they already have. I'll give one example.

On Crepon, I was playing as the Allies. I had my men attack up the upper (towards the upper edge of the map) of the two access roads into the town. It wasn't even a reckless attack either - I had my infantry squads crawl the entire way, keeping to hedgerows as much as possible. I kept my tanks back.

Supposedly, sneaking troops are the most alert, and I had several squads all sneaking. Yet, as they continued to crawl up the hedgerows on either side of the road, they somehow failed to spot the German (or was it Georgian on this map?) squads dug in on the side of the road. These squads remained undetected up to just 30 meters away, and then they opened fire.

It was a slaughter. Even throwing smoke did not help, and they continued to hit my men. (after all, they were just 30 meters away.) I moved up a tank to assist, and it promptly got knocked out by a hidden AT gun. Incredibly, my men STILL could not spot the enemy even when they were already firing! I can understand that the enemy could have remained unseen while not firing, but while firing from just 30 meters?

I was finally able to destroy the first squad (the whole slaughter had been caused by a single Osttruppen squad) by rushing its trench with everything I had, with corresponding heavy losses. I don't normally play this way, and in CC5, I didn't have to. Then it turned out there was a second trench behind the first one, with another unseen squad. And the process started again...

That was just one battle, but I can name others. Are troops harder to detect in TLD than in CC5? This almost never happened in CC5. Worst of all, the enemy squads were not detected even when firing, so my tanks had to fire on the area rather than directly at the enemy, which is less effective.

I don't know if it's just me, but I think that thirty men not being able to spot the poorly-trained Eastern troops shooting at them from trenches just thirty meters away is a little absurd.

#2: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: tigercub, Location: charters towers

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:31 am
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i would go to matrix forum and copy and paste it in TLD ...they make the changes....here are the mod makers/players.

#3: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 9:52 am
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Quote:

Supposedly, sneaking troops are the most alert

IIRC, walking troops are the most alert in CC.

#4: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:17 am
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Dima wrote (View Post):

IIRC, walking troops are the most alert in CC.

IIRC the manual says that sneaking troops are the most alert; I shall experiment with making my troops walk instead.

Dug-in enemies are still absurdly hard to spot in TLD, though. I see that I am not the only one to have posted about this issue, see here:

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7743

The issue seems to be that troops in their initial positions (positions at the very start of the battle) are very difficult to spot. The fact that someone else has posted about it besides me helps to confirm my theory.

I'm posting this here and not in the Matrix forum because I don't necessarily want it fixed, I just want confirmation that this is indeed the case. If dug-in troops are this hard to spot in TLD, I shall just have to change my tactics.

Last edited by LoneRebel on Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

#5: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: Amgot,

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:01 am
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I've had the exact same impression while playing a H2H GC as the Allies. It makes the game very frustrating sometimes for the Allied player, though I could still make Ostruppen panick very quickly with some concentrated area fire. I wish they would fix it, but I'm pretty sure we'll just have to get accustomed to it.

#6: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:45 am
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Also not sure if the effect of Smoke has been addressed either.
It seems as if using smoke does not block LOS

#7: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:56 pm
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Amgot wrote (View Post):

I've had the exact same impression while playing a H2H GC as the Allies. It makes the game very frustrating sometimes for the Allied player, though I could still make Ostruppen panick very quickly with some concentrated area fire. I wish they would fix it, but I'm pretty sure we'll just have to get accustomed to it.

I'm glad there are other players who have had the same experience. It's also interesting to hear that it happens even in H2H. That invalidates the "The AI is a Cheating Bastard" line of reasoning.

Although annoying, I guess it's not really game-breaking so long as the attacking side changes its tactics. But casualties for the attacking side will indeed go way up, and many spotter squads will be consigned to die meters away from the enemy just to spot the enemy's location... Sad

And for BGs without tanks to do "attack ground" fire, such as the paratrooper BGs, it'll be even more difficult. Actually, scratch that. Even for BGs with tanks, they'll get knocked out quickly if one isn't careful.

Btw, as I'm sure you're all aware, this isn't just a night problem. It happens in broad daylight.

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

Also not sure if the effect of Smoke has been addressed either.
It seems as if using smoke does not block LOS

Smoke certainly didn't help me in the incident I mentioned earlier. But then again, my men were running, and they were less than 30 meters away...

#8: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:36 pm
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I have my HQTeams set up with Smoke Mortars and they have 20 rounds.

I can lay a TON of Smoke and see where it does nothing to help provide cover,regardless if they are sneaking.

#9: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: tigercub, Location: charters towers

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:53 pm
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The only issue i see is hidden unit fires and u dont see him (6 men firing not stop ) and no spotting at 30 m, yes there is a few factors in this but the bottom line its over done.

#10: Re: Difficulty of spotting troops in TLD Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:54 am
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Well, yes, that is the issue. I would think that soldiers can generally see a full squad of enemy soldiers shooting at them from 30 meters away.

I can believe that an entire squad can escape being noticed by the enemy even at that distance if they keep their heads down and do not fire a single shot. But while firing? Come on.

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